There you have it OP. Different strokes for different relationships. Some people like the swinger lifestyle and some just prefer normal relationships. It sounds like you need a more traditional relationship rather than an open one. So if you agreed on monogamous relationship, I'd say he cheated half way. It's like slapping somebody at half speed or saying something in a halfway jokingly manner. It's all about what you want out of a relationship.
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Is kissing cheating?
- Thread starter cadburyflake
- Start date
I'm sorry, but what the hell is wrong with you guys for saying reading the journal was worse than kissing and groping some guy in the bathroom. I'm truly flabbergasted. At what point does the cheating become worse? Getting to the point of oral? How about full on sex? Or is reading a journal worse than full on cheating? Come on!
To the opening poster, should you have read the journal? No, you should not. But you know what? If I saw my boyfriend’s open journal and I caught my name on a page, I would most likely read it too—like most people. Now you know what he's hiding and you should confront him. Tell him what you did. Tell him you know what he did. If he wants to get upset and high-and-mighty then kick his ass to the curb. Tell him if he misses being single so much then go take his cheating ass and be single.
To the opening poster, should you have read the journal? No, you should not. But you know what? If I saw my boyfriend’s open journal and I caught my name on a page, I would most likely read it too—like most people. Now you know what he's hiding and you should confront him. Tell him what you did. Tell him you know what he did. If he wants to get upset and high-and-mighty then kick his ass to the curb. Tell him if he misses being single so much then go take his cheating ass and be single.
TX-Beau
FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE!
What' the old proverb? People who eavesdrop never hear anything to their advantage.
First off this:
There is no relationship algebra where one breach of trust cancels or exceeds another. Trying to play that kind of game is a good way to lose your relationship. The other guy has every right to be offended for the op’s breach of trust, and vice versa. EVERYONE is responsible for what they do.
You don’t know if the guy just happened to glance at the page that just happened to have the offense, since the book just happened to be lying open on the dining room table - and trying to portray this that way is doing what you are so incensed about, trying to minimize the breach of trust.
We don’t know why the OP went and read the other guy’s journal, but since he read back as far as March, I suspect that he went looking for the book.
The other guy isn’t in here, there’s no point in trying to talk to him, so it falls on the op to decide what he’s going to do, and how he’s going to do it, with the detriment already on the table that he’s handed the other guy a grievance.
For the record, if you read my journal, I’d be extremely pissed off, because it’s personal, and it’s not your business, even if you are dating me, and I write things in there that would hurt people’s feelings, to get it out of my head. Things I would never say to anyone.
First off this:
There is no relationship algebra where one breach of trust cancels or exceeds another. Trying to play that kind of game is a good way to lose your relationship. The other guy has every right to be offended for the op’s breach of trust, and vice versa. EVERYONE is responsible for what they do.
You don’t know if the guy just happened to glance at the page that just happened to have the offense, since the book just happened to be lying open on the dining room table - and trying to portray this that way is doing what you are so incensed about, trying to minimize the breach of trust.
We don’t know why the OP went and read the other guy’s journal, but since he read back as far as March, I suspect that he went looking for the book.
The other guy isn’t in here, there’s no point in trying to talk to him, so it falls on the op to decide what he’s going to do, and how he’s going to do it, with the detriment already on the table that he’s handed the other guy a grievance.
For the record, if you read my journal, I’d be extremely pissed off, because it’s personal, and it’s not your business, even if you are dating me, and I write things in there that would hurt people’s feelings, to get it out of my head. Things I would never say to anyone.
amyleeisjesus
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Interesting that this is supposed to be a "no flame zone" yet the fires are raging even as a mod comments in it. Honestly, this forum is kind of a mess.
Sorry, but there is a difference between a "flame" and voicing a strong opinion. What I've noticed in this thread is people who have strong opinions, and are expressing them. That is their right. A "flame" is more of a personal attack--attacking the person themselves, rather than the topic under discussion.
OK, back to topic.
No offense, but that’s hogwash.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’d much rather have my boyfriend read my journal than he go out and cheat—and have not one bit of remorse for doing it. Sure the guy has the right to be offended for having his journal read. But the OP has a bigger right to be offended because his boyfriend went out and cheated, and again, has no remorse. I guess because I favor monogamy it’s influencing how I feel about this. I guess those who favor open relationships or those who see nothing wrong with their boyfriends kissing and groping other guys would see it differently.I didn’t say the guy happened to glace at the offending page, so I wasn’t trying to portray it any kind of way. I was just laying out a situation where I could see myself doing the same thing.
How do you know he read as far back as March? Perhaps a more recent page was recalling an incident that happened in March. And even if he did read back as far as March how can you conclude he went searching for it?
Moral of the story: Cheating is OK as long as the cheater somehow hides it and the cheatee doesn't find out by snooping. When it comes to betrayal of trust, cheating doesn't count unless the cheater feels bad and comes clean on his/her own, but snooping ALWAYS counts whether it's justified or not. Cheating is excusable when it's kept secret by the cheater because snooping is worse, and NEVER excusable. What the cheatee doesn't know won't hurt him/her.
Sadly, that seems to be the feeling for a lot of people here.
TX-Beau
FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE!
Oh spare us all. bring the other guy in here and we'll all happily oblige you.
But he's not here.
The OP is, and he's s still responsible for himself and his actions.
No one get's a pass because someone else did something wrong. That's fifth grade logic.
But he's not here.
The OP is, and he's s still responsible for himself and his actions.
No one get's a pass because someone else did something wrong. That's fifth grade logic.
Who is this directed to?
TX-Beau
FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE!
Anyone who says that guys in here think that "cheating doesn't count" or any variation thereof, because people in here are talking to the guy who posted, not the guy who's absent.
In fact they're both absent, the OP hasn't said anything since the first post, so really, it's anyone's guess what's actually going on.
In fact they're both absent, the OP hasn't said anything since the first post, so really, it's anyone's guess what's actually going on.
That's true. An update would be nice.
Cheating is however the people in the relationship define it. You label yourself as in an open relationship, so to you, it's obvious that kissing is not cheating in your relationship. Maybe even sex isn't.
That doesn't mean all relationships view it the same way.
There are plenty of relationships where both partners would definitely consider kissing someone else to be cheating.
bankside
JUB 10k Club
Yes of course it is cheating, for the reasons Lucky states.
The bottom line is, any relationship is entirely closed unless people negotiate otherwise. If your boyfriend knew it turned you on to imagine him snogging and groping someone else then he'd be on solid ground because he'd be doing something that you'd enjoy knowing about. It does turn some people on. But it's his obligation to figure out in advance that you're cool with it, and then tell you how hot it was. Or, to respect your closed relationship.
Oh and these complaints about you reading his diary? All hot air. People can have privacy in a relationship, but honestly once people are having sex, how much privacy do they think they need? That always makes me laugh. "Your penis can go inside me but knowing who I grope when you're not around is waaaay to personal. Back off, nosey..." It's just ridiculous.
Anyway, any right to privacy evaporates completely when they use that privacy to shield an act of betrayal.
The bottom line is, any relationship is entirely closed unless people negotiate otherwise. If your boyfriend knew it turned you on to imagine him snogging and groping someone else then he'd be on solid ground because he'd be doing something that you'd enjoy knowing about. It does turn some people on. But it's his obligation to figure out in advance that you're cool with it, and then tell you how hot it was. Or, to respect your closed relationship.
Oh and these complaints about you reading his diary? All hot air. People can have privacy in a relationship, but honestly once people are having sex, how much privacy do they think they need? That always makes me laugh. "Your penis can go inside me but knowing who I grope when you're not around is waaaay to personal. Back off, nosey..." It's just ridiculous.
Anyway, any right to privacy evaporates completely when they use that privacy to shield an act of betrayal.
TX-Beau
FEAR THE LIBERAL DETENTE!
I'm going to have to disagree with you. Privacy doesn't evaporate because you're sleeping with someone, and no one knows what agreements were made between these two. If the OP doesn't know if that's cheating, it pretty much means that he has no real idea of where the boundaries were in the first place.
If he does know that's cheating - which I suspect, why ask? hotatlboi is right, cheating is how you define it.
If he does know that's cheating - which I suspect, why ask? hotatlboi is right, cheating is how you define it.
Perfidiosity
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It really sounds like a bad situation and sorry that you have to deal with this! What he did was wrong and if he's bored with the relationship or if things aren't working out he always had the choice to end things. I have no sympathy for cheaters!
Willie Boy
BOO!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!
I don't advocate reading another's personal writings, but what's done is done. And having read that it would seem you have a right to feel betrayed, hurt, upset, and angry. Surprisingly, so does he now. Unless he intentionally left the diary out where you could read it, or has given you permission you also broke his trust. I would suggest you sit down with him and communicate with him. Tell him its come to your attention what he was doing with another guy. Ask him what he thinks that should mean to your relationship. Try not to be judgmental, but don't be afraid to stand up for yourself.
Other than possibly snooping in his private stuff? Nothing. This isn't you its him. Maybe it was just a drunken moment at a friend's party, but still.... Depending on where your relationship is at (you say you've been together for 4 years, but didn't say anything about exclusivity.... still, most people would assume some level of monogamy in a 4 year relationship) you may have an expectation of exclusivity. If he isn't being faithful maybe its time to move on, or maybe he just needs to lay off the alcohol....
Are you willing to risk that he may be cheating as well as risking his health (and yours) on unprotected sex with strangers? How long will what you have going last if he starts stepping out with every Tom, Dick, or Harry that catches his eye?
IF, and I say IF, he IS cheating, it will be he who is at fault for any upset to your families. Again talk to him, find out if there IS an issue. But if there is one it doesn't seem to be of your making.
There's most likely nothing wrong with you. If he is cheating there is something wrong with him. If this was just a one time, got drunk and got stupid thing, fine..... Chalk it up to a "he doesn't need to be drinking until he learns to keep his head on straight lesson and move on. If he is (or has been for a while) cheating.... maybe its time to kick him to the curb and good riddance to bad rubbish.
You aren't being a bore.... Just a person with a potential issue in need of advice.
Just remember, you aren't completely innocent here, apparently having been snooping through his personal things. Not to pry but did you find his diary left out, or did you go snooping for it?
^^^^^^^^
I do agree with you nothing excuses intentional cheating in a relationship
the problem is that we have only got one side of the story.
As i said in my 1st post to the op i am sorry that he had to find out in such a
way , but i think we can all agree that two wrongs dont make a right .
I just think that it would be really sad if a 4 year relationship came to an end
because the guys cant seem to be able to talk things through and i wish the op
well and i hope that they manage to overcome this .
We all know that being in a relationship is never a fairy tale they do require a
bit of give and take and sometimes a lot of hard work i hope the guys can get
over this , though for all we know there could be underlying problems that we
know nothing about.
I do agree with you nothing excuses intentional cheating in a relationship
the problem is that we have only got one side of the story.
As i said in my 1st post to the op i am sorry that he had to find out in such a
way , but i think we can all agree that two wrongs dont make a right .
I just think that it would be really sad if a 4 year relationship came to an end
because the guys cant seem to be able to talk things through and i wish the op
well and i hope that they manage to overcome this .
We all know that being in a relationship is never a fairy tale they do require a
bit of give and take and sometimes a lot of hard work i hope the guys can get
over this , though for all we know there could be underlying problems that we
know nothing about.
Willie Boy
BOO!!! Mwahahahaha!!!!!
Agreed. They do, at this point, need to sit down and talk things out.
MMMonsterBoy
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If your man cannot verbally express to you that he kissed another guy, then obviously he believes he did something he should not have. Is that not what cheating is, in essence? If you two have a mutual understand where it is okay to kiss random strangers, then I guess it is not cheating. Most one on one committed relationships do not work that way, however. So yes, I would consider it cheating. By saying he "misses the single life" and obviously the kiss validated him. And he does not regret it? Sounds to me like he is already single.
hylas
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Moral of the story: Cheating is OK as long as the cheater somehow hides it and the cheatee doesn't find out by snooping. When it comes to betrayal of trust, cheating doesn't count unless the cheater feels bad and comes clean on his/her own, but snooping ALWAYS counts whether it's justified or not. Cheating is excusable when it's kept secret by the cheater because snooping is worse, and NEVER excusable. What the cheatee doesn't know won't hurt him/her.
i dont see how anybody has said or even implied any of this. please dont make up bullshit and put it into other peoples mouth, just because your opinion and priorities are different.