Is "Oriental" a racist word??

[PreTTy PeTe]

I am 25% Asian, and I really don't care, that word is not offensive to me. There are other words like "jap" that I totally despise though

is it because you're not a Jewish American Princess. (or are you)

that you find "jap" offensive. just asking

 

[luminum]

I was taught that Oriental was 'offensive' only because it doesn't actually refer to Asians, but all people from the Middle East to Japan. So the term is unspecific and unrepresentive.

I personally am not dreadfully offended by the term oriental, but I do think it sounds stupid. My family is from Asia (China) and I was raised with a lot of Chinese heritage and culture, so I consider myself an ABC. It can't be that hard to describe me vaguely as asian.

Non-asians seem to have a tough time telling asian ethnicities apart, but for the most part, it's clear to me and my asian acquaintences. We can tell if someone is Chinese, Japanese, Philipino, Thai, etc. Good fun

In Chinese, we generally refer to white people or Americans (North America) as 'Western people' (sai yun), so I guess it's not so different.

 

[Chalchalero]

I swear, I don't live under a rock, but the LAST word I would use to describe myself is racist! We have several Chinese restaurants in the area, and two have signage referring to "oriental take-out" and "oriental cooking."

Recently when I used that word, a coworker looked at me like I'd just used the "n" word. She knows how much I abhor THAT term. So, please, somebody - tell me please - is "oriental" now inappropriate? And when did that change? And I wonder who changed it, for that matter. Or am I just concerned over trivial semantics?

I have not even bothered to read the responses to this, but let me say one thing. Political correctness is sooooooo f***ing out of hand! The fact of the matter is that oriental means eastern in Spanish, French and Italian. I am sure there is a version of the word in Greek as well, but I have not been in primaria for a long time. However, I will say that this is a word which exists in the languages of many countries. The fact that people become upset about it in this one is immaterial, because this country has taught its children to whine and moan about every little thing. That's why it is the ORIENTALS in China who are about to overtake us in everything. Because they are not concerning themselves with such stupidity. They are simply making money, bombs, and more money - and bombs.

 

[JayboyCDA]

Are any of you guys who responded to this thread of Asian ancestry????? I am of Asian ancestry, having been born to Filipino parents and trust me being called ORIENTAL is not offensive.

o·ri·en·tal /ˌɔriˈɛntl, ˌoʊr‑/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[awr-ee-en-tl, ohr‑] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. (usually initial capital letter) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Orient, or East; Eastern.
2. of the orient or east; eastern.
3. (initial capital letter) Zoogeography. belonging to a geographical division comprising southern Asia and the Malay Archipelago as far as and including the Philippines, Borneo, and Java.
4. Jewelry.
a. (usually initial capital letter) designating various gems that are varieties of corundum: Oriental aquamarine; Oriental ruby.
b. fine or precious; orient: oriental agate; oriental garnet.
c. designating certain natural saltwater pearls found esp. in the Orient.
–noun
5. (usually initial capital letter) a native or inhabitant of the Orient.

o·ri·en·tal (ôr'ē-ěn'tl, ōr'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. often Oriental Of or relating to the countries of the Orient or their peoples or cultures; eastern.
2. Oriental Of or designating the biogeographic region that includes Asia south of the Himalaya Mountains and the islands of the Malay Archipelago.
3. Lustrous and valuable: oriental pearls.
4.
1. Of or relating to a genuine or superior gem: an oriental ruby.
2. Relating to or designating corundum that resembles another stone in color.

Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental—meaning "eastern"—is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.

These are direct quote from dictionary.com FYI. But coming from someone of Asian heritage, I just find all of these postings here really extremely interesting. You can call me "Asian", "Filipino", "Filipino-Canadian", "Oriental", "Single Asian Male", "Single Oriental Male", "Gay Asian Male" whatever it is that you call me, I am not offended. But I would just be encouraged if someone saw me as a person, not someone who belongs to a certain ethnic group because I am more than someone than that.

 

[spreadeagle]

As we're aware: context is all and meaning and conotation are constantly evolving.

Rick's apprehension about being considered racist is misplaced here since the proprietors of the shops selling the food describe it as 'oriental' in their signage.

Re 'oriental' as a racist term in British usage. The abusive term WOG allegedly stands for 'Western Oriental Gentleman.'

 

[ladygrey]

Why use a word that is so loaded to some people or not loaded to others?

Just find a netrual word.

Or, better yet: Just use their name.

 

[Chalchalero]

As we're aware: context is all and meaning and conotation are constantly evolving.

Rick's apprehension about being considered racist is misplaced here since the proprietors of the shops selling the food describe it as 'oriental' in their signage.

Re 'oriental' as a racist term in British usage. The abusive term WOG allegedly stands for 'Western Oriental Gentleman.'

Well at least the word "gentleman" is implied. I am a black hispanic. I can assure you that none of the words used to describe me in these great ol' US of A have ever implied "gentleman". Stop whining.

 

[darcypaul]

I personally hate being called a white guy

 

[Chalchalero]

Are any of you guys who responded to this thread of Asian ancestry????? I am of Asian ancestry, having been born to Filipino parents and trust me being called ORIENTAL is not offensive.

o·ri·en·tal /ˌɔriˈɛntl, ˌoʊr‑/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[awr-ee-en-tl, ohr‑] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. (usually initial capital letter) of, pertaining to, or characteristic of the Orient, or East; Eastern.
2. of the orient or east; eastern.
3. (initial capital letter) Zoogeography. belonging to a geographical division comprising southern Asia and the Malay Archipelago as far as and including the Philippines, Borneo, and Java.
4. Jewelry.
a. (usually initial capital letter) designating various gems that are varieties of corundum: Oriental aquamarine; Oriental ruby.
b. fine or precious; orient: oriental agate; oriental garnet.
c. designating certain natural saltwater pearls found esp. in the Orient.
–noun
5. (usually initial capital letter) a native or inhabitant of the Orient.

o·ri·en·tal (ôr'ē-ěn'tl, ōr'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.

1. often Oriental Of or relating to the countries of the Orient or their peoples or cultures; eastern.
2. Oriental Of or designating the biogeographic region that includes Asia south of the Himalaya Mountains and the islands of the Malay Archipelago.
3. Lustrous and valuable: oriental pearls.
4.
1. Of or relating to a genuine or superior gem: an oriental ruby.
2. Relating to or designating corundum that resembles another stone in color.

Asian is now strongly preferred in place of Oriental for persons native to Asia or descended from an Asian people. The usual objection to Oriental—meaning "eastern"—is that it identifies Asian countries and peoples in terms of their location relative to Europe. However, this objection is not generally made of other Eurocentric terms such as Near and Middle Eastern. The real problem with Oriental is more likely its connotations stemming from an earlier era when Europeans viewed the regions east of the Mediterranean as exotic lands full of romance and intrigue, the home of despotic empires and inscrutable customs. At the least these associations can give Oriental a dated feel, and as a noun in contemporary contexts (as in the first Oriental to be elected from the district) it is now widely taken to be offensive. However, Oriental should not be thought of as an ethnic slur to be avoided in all situations. As with Asiatic, its use other than as an ethnonym, in phrases such as Oriental cuisine or Oriental medicine, is not usually considered objectionable.

These are direct quote from dictionary.com FYI. But coming from someone of Asian heritage, I just find all of these postings here really extremely interesting. You can call me "Asian", "Filipino", "Filipino-Canadian", "Oriental", "Single Asian Male", "Single Oriental Male", "Gay Asian Male" whatever it is that you call me, I am not offended. But I would just be encouraged if someone saw me as a person, not someone who belongs to a certain ethnic group because I am more than someone than that.

Wow! I would just be encouraged if someone saw me as a person, not someone who belongs to a certain ethnic group because I am more than someone than that.

Really?

Wow!

I'm sorry that just amazes me because I just assumed we all came from smehwere and we all had some ethnicity to us and I also assumed that, despite its claims, this country tends to love to divide us all up into pretty (or not so pretty according to some) little ethnic groups and treat us accordingly.

Please....

We would all love that the world accept us as we are and not as some identifiable little category. But unfortunately that is human nature. For instance: isn't it true that most "Asians" prefer white men because they find them a) sexier and more exotic and/or b) because they are more likely to take care of them? Let's be real here. The stereotype works both ways.

 

[Lostlover]

I personally hate being called a white guy

... or white boy. Hate that word.

But if people find the O word offensive, then well it is racist.

 

[Chalchalero]

Or, don't get offended over silly mundane shit.

Thank you...

 

[darcypaul]

lostlover...exactly my point.. i have a couple of asian friends that tell me their group call us worse but it happens to be in their language

 

[Soilwork]

I would say that a non-specific East Asian restaurant could call it's food "Oriental" but not the people.

But what do I know, I'm a cracker.

 

[gewhite3]

I had this exact conversation with a Philippino (sp?) lady I work with and she informed me that "yes, indeed it is an insult". It is because it is grouping anyone Asian into the same "bucket" so to speak.

Soil? How can you be a cracker? You not from the southeast.......LOL (or are you?)

 

[Chalchalero]

"Oriental" derives from the Latin word "oriens" for "East", so "Oriental" means "Eastern".

You certainly wouldn't want to refer to someone as "Eastern" as this is very position-biased, and therefore most offensive. A person could only be "Eastern" by being "East" of you, and that would imply that your position on the planet was more important than theirs. Refering to someone as "Northern", "Southern", or "Western" is similarly offensive, of course. The Latin word for "West" is "occidens", so a "Western" person would have been an "Occidental" person to the Romans. This would today imply that that person worked for a petroleum company, however, which would be a slander too offensive to contemplate.

"Asian" labels a person as being limited to a particular continent, and it is always wrong to "label" a person, or verbally "limit" them in any way. "Vietnamese", "Cambodian", "Chinese", "Tibetan", etc. are also derogatory terms, since these imply the people in question come from third world countries. "Chinks", "Nips", "Slant eyes" and "Mongols" are slightly more acceptable terms, but still regarded as traditionally derogatory.

The only safe thing is not to refer to those people at all. Pretend that they do not exist, and never discuss them. And please don't refer to their cars as s#!t boxes, either.

I am going to be LMAO for the next hour at least!

 

[tonyboy]

I swear, I don't live under a rock, but the LAST word I would use to describe myself is racist! We have several Chinese restaurants in the area, and two have signage referring to "oriental take-out" and "oriental cooking."

Recently when I used that word, a coworker looked at me like I'd just used the "n" word. She knows how much I abhor THAT term. So, please, somebody - tell me please - is "oriental" now inappropriate? And when did that change? And I wonder who changed it, for that matter. Or am I just concerned over trivial semantics?

Of course not. This pc stuff is getting beyond ridiculous.
I used that term with a coworker about 5 years ago... he said that was a rascist term. I looked at him in disbelief and asked why. Course he couldn't give me an answer.
What is rascist about it. Someone from that part of the world could be called Asian, Indian, Cambodian....
Is it rascist to call someone from Niger, Ghana, or Egypt an African? I don't think so.
Who the hell determines whether a a term is racist or not. Is there some United Nations committee sitting there in NYC figuring this stuff out? I don't think so.

Oriental is a term that is part of the English language, it is not deragatory and is used to denote a certain part of our world. Exactly as the terms Middle Eastern, American, or Persian are.

Don't worry about your use of that phrase friend. It is appropriate and is considered in good taste.

Good post.

 

[chatolandia]

OK, I have friends that are from SE Asia and I asked this question a while ago. Since English is not my first language they tend to give me some leeway on this. My Laotian friend told me that it was insulting because during the times that they were colonized (the French in this case) it was used to separate them as second class citizens.

In some of those places, there were people from many ethnicities (Chinese, Cambodians, Vietnamese) and they were all clumped together as Orientals and treated as such.

That's way they don't like it. (at least the SE Asians)

Usually Asian refers to East Asians (Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Cambodian, etc)
Indian to People from India and Native American to people from here!
This of course applies only to the US, it changes from country to country.

 

[syntax]

Oriens = East, so does Asia. They are both Greco-Roman words.

 

[luminum]

Calling it mundane shit and telling people not to be offended by it certainly doesn't help the situation or help the case at hand. If it offends people and has a legitimate background and history, then it certainly isn't mundane shit.

But it can be dated and archaic and unintentional and that's good enough of a reason for people to relax. So long as people who used it realize why it can be considered offensive and people targeted by the language understand that it's not as applicable or intentioned as it once was, then it's all good and everyone can chill. If one party calls it stupid and refuses to consider it or the other persists in demanding an apology for no actual harm meant, then everything goes no where.

So why was it considered offensive:

1) It harkens back to usage where people who originated from the center treated people from the extremities as lower than themselves.

2) It also groups people unrepresentively together, like the Chinese calling everyone west of China 'Westerners' and lumping that all into one definition.

The Chinese are distinct from the Japanese, who are distinct from the Indians, who are distinct from the Turkish, and the Arabic. Using Oriental only to describe 'chinky' things like Egg Foo Yung just doesn't cut it.

So why shouldn't it be offensive anymore:

1) Hardly anyone uses Oriental in reference to groups of people in a classist way anymore. In fact, it's usually just used...

2)...incorrectly. People don't understand why it's just a flawed, archaic term with a useless meaning. So they're just using the wrong term to describe the wrong thing. In a PC way and in an objective way, using country names is more appropriate because it establishes no focal point as a reference for language (PC ) and countries are objective locations, despite what their names originally meant. America is 'here', not describing a relative direction. Asia is 'here', Europe is 'here' , Spain is 'here', Sweden is 'here'. None of them are America is definitevely west, since that's entirely relative. It's just less redundant and silly. What's the point in calling Japan the Orient if you're standing in Japan?

So it carries some archaic connotations, but in my opinion, none of which really carry over anymore. What does carry over is a definitive redundancy. It's not equivalent to calling black people 'jigaboos'. It's more equivalent to outdated phylogenic groupings in biology that no longer apply because of new genetic research...I'm such a dork. I'm done.

 

[tonyboy]

Exactly. Its 100% wrong to call anyone anything other then their name, using any racial term is purely judgement based on skin colour or race, and some people may be offended by it.

Though I remeber a 'racial' joke that occoured with me and my housemates when we were having roast dinner on sunday. I were asking about the traditional roots of the dinner, and how if it was a purely traditional english dinner we would have been using parsnips and not potatoes. One responded, without meaning to be racist, it isnt exacty traditional for you then since you wouldnt have been here back then'. Then his girfriend replied 'He could have been our slave'.

I found that really hilarious

But if someone I dont know comes up to me and calls me indian....

Well sounds as if you have a bit of a sense of humor about all this politacally correct bullshit man. My hat is off to you.
The term Oriental is not based on race any more than the term American is. The Orient is comprised of dozens of races and countries.
I'm so sorry that people get offended by terms that are not meant to be harmful.... That's just the way of the world and always has been. What's to get so upset about anyway. Unless you are Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton and want to make some money out of things people say, just back off.
There are tons of real problems in this world my friends.
Remember the old saying:
'Sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.'

My ancestors are from Denmark, France, and England..... lot's of my ancestors were probably slaves at one point in there lives. That was the nature of things back then.

Kudos to you friend ^ for taking the comments of your dinner companion in the best way. I'm sure she didn't mean anything harmful.

You seem like a very good and understanding guy.