is others' non-acceptance of homosexuality a deal-breaker?

[RyeGuy]

Let me clarify.

I have a few friends that I've made at university who are great guys. They're funny, they're cool, we hang out, watch basketball games, etc etc. The thing is, i've never really made it a point to say, hey, by the way, i'm gay.

admittedly, some of it is because i'm afraid of their reaction. The ones in question are pretty conservative. But a part of it is also, really, what business of theirs is it? And the answer, i think, is that it's not. What goes on behind my closed doors does not need to be their business.

So let me repeat my question: is others' acceptance (or non-acceptance) of your homosexuality a deal breaker? would you not be friends with them because of this one thing? should i stop being friends with people because they don't like gay people?

and am i going to get posts about how i'm really lying to them and we're not really friends?

 

[relaxin13]

If I told one of my friends that I was gay and they reacted negatively, I would first try to show them my own point of view... maybe try to get them to ask questions so they can better understand the way I see things. If after that they still think that I'm worthless or whatever, then yeah, I don't see the point in caring about them either.

I recently told a friend of mine I was gay, and though he didn't have a problem with it, he did say "It's your choice." This thoroughly pissed me off, so I am now in the process of explaining how it is not my choice to do anything except welcome who I am.

Hope that helped.

 

[nihilis]

I have a few friends that I've made at university who are great guys. They're funny, they're cool, we hang out, watch basketball games, etc etc. The thing is, i've never really made it a point to say, hey, by the way, i'm gay.

Are you out to other people?

admittedly, some of it is because i'm afraid of their reaction. The ones in question are pretty conservative. But a part of it is also, really, what business of theirs is it? And the answer, i think, is that it's not. What goes on behind my closed doors does not need to be their business.

It's really not their business per se, but if you ever plan on dating, it's going to be their business at some point, mainly because they're going to notice the boyfriend you're bringing around. If you're in the closet and dating's not going to be an issue, then you might want to see what kind of people they are first. A lot of people are superficially homophobic sometimes, and you might want to use the time to get to know them, bring up gays in a general manner, see how they react, and then make your decision. I'm in the closet, but I still don't put up with homophobia from my friends.

So let me repeat my question: is others' acceptance (or non-acceptance) of your homosexuality a deal breaker? would you not be friends with them because of this one thing? should i stop being friends with people because they don't like gay people?

If they're outright bigots, then yes, you're going to have a problem with them somewhere down the line. I guess you'll know the answer to that question when (and if) you tell them. It would be a waste getting close to people who are going to shit on you for being gay, but only you can make that call.

and am i going to get posts about how i'm really lying to them and we're not really friends?

Maybe, but not from me. You're only not really friends if you come out and they abandon you.

 

[thongboi]

The only thing I'll say (having been in the same position) is that most people, at the end of the day, conservative or not, don't care. if they like you, the'll still like YOU. They may make comments about who a prospective partner might be (IE "as long as no 'femmy' guys come around....") but even that is just their own insecurities about being around gay people moreso than it has anything to do with you.

 

[rareboy]

If your acquaintances can't accept your homosexuality, then yes, it is a deal breaker.

Your friends will always accept it because it is just part of who you are.

 

[Philia]

How is it a deal breaker if you haven't even brought it up, or I'm assuming, the subject hasn't even been discussed? If they were blatantly homophobic then you wouldn't have befriended them in the first place. So either you have yet to receive their perspective on the matter or there isn't really anything there to worry about.

Of course it's not their business to know if you're gay and what you do with other guys, but then again, they assume you're straight [I'm guessing] so it's not going to be an issue unless you make it one.

Find a way to passively bring it up like commenting on a guy or throwing out male pronouns here and there. See how they react. Then after the fact, you'll know for certain whether or not these are people you want to be around.

People can disagree with homosexuality but still be respectful.

 

[JOHN B]

you shouldn't have to tolerate a friendship with someone who doesn't accept you completely. Being gay is not just "what you do in the bedroom" it's who and what you are.

 

[TygreBryte]

For me, it's generally a deal-breaker. I think Johnlikesguys comment ^ sums it up well.

 

[miyakko]

What I don't understand are the people that remain in the closet around certain "friends" because these "friends" are homophobic and down right rude. Why would anyone want to be talk and be friends with these people?

If they are that closed minded then f*ck them, they aren't worth my time. I've got too much to do to worry about what people think. Get in my way and I'll push you out of the way and keep going forward to accomplish what I need to get done. I deal with homophobes at my job, but it doesn't get in the way of doing both our jobs. We just don't talk or hang around each other. . .

 

[KaraBulut]

Hollisterman214:

There are different levels of friendship.

You've asked two questions here.

1. Should you stop being friends with people because they don't like gay people?

Why would you want to be friends with people who don't like gay people?

2. Should you come out to your friends?

You've answered part of that question yourself: "what business of theirs is it? And the answer, i think, is that it's not. What goes on behind my closed doors does not need to be their business"

The rest of the answer to that question has more to do with the permanence of your friendship with these people. If these are the kind of friends that you just hang out with and with whom you have a very casual, non-personal relationship, then you are correct in saying that your sexuality is none of their business. On the other hand, if you wish to have a more lasting or closer relationship, then this is not something that you can keep from them.

But I have to return to my original question: "Why would you want to be friends with people who don't like gay people?" There are plenty of nice people in the world who do like gay people.

 

[RyeGuy]

I agree that there are plenty of people who are nice and like gay people.

But i also think that part of being "open-minded," is that you accept things that you don't necessarily agree with either. In this particular example, if i'm friends with something, and we have things in common, but don't agree on other things, should i necessarily stop being friends with them just because we don't agree on something. Ok, so admittedly homosexuality is not quite on the same level as what we may think about whether fried chicken is good or not, but in that same vein, i should be able to respect his decision to not like fried chicken, or homosexuality.

Otherwise, aren't i just as bad as people who we often decry as "close-minded?"

To answer some questions, i am out to some friends, but i never saw fit to say "Hi, my name is Ryan. I'm gay."

i'll readily admit that if i were to tell some of my more conservative friends that i'm gay (i go to a university in the bible belt), they would ignore me completely. That's probably part of why i don't want to tell them.

So i guess my question has sort of morphed to: is it really necessary to come out to all of your friends? though my original question still sort of stands.

 

[josher]

I guess my question is: why would you want to be friends with people who you know would ignore you, if they knew who you really are?

 

[hanshansen]

But i also think that part of being "open-minded," is that you accept things that you don't necessarily agree with either. In this particular example, if i'm friends with something, and we have things in common, but don't agree on other things, should i necessarily stop being friends with them just because we don't agree on something. Ok, so admittedly homosexuality is not quite on the same level as what we may think about whether fried chicken is good or not, but in that same vein, i should be able to respect his decision to not like fried chicken, or homosexuality.

In general, I agree with this. Some homophobes are in other respects great people who are really worth knowing. So are some racists. And Nazi sympathisers, and communists.

But in this case, you are gay. Hence, if you are friends with people who dislike gay people, there is something that they will potentially dislike about you. (I'd extend this to a situation where, say, you weren't gay but had close gay friends.)

That has implications for your freedom of action and your self-esteem.

I'd expect that to affect your relations with such people.

Not in a zero-one sense (cut them off, or not). But why would you invest that much in someone who might end up rejecting you, or criticising your friends? Wouldn't you rather surround yourself with people who are comfortable with you and your lifestyle? It would make you happier, and it's good to be happy.

So i guess my question has sort of morphed to: is it really necessary to come out to all of your friends? though my original question still sort of stands.

My general view is: no (it depends on how close you want the friends to be, as a KaraBulut said). But because of what I said above, I think it's necessary to find out what your friends' attitude towards homosexuality is, and draw the consequences. Otherwise you're setting yourself up for trouble.

 

[KaraBulut]

hanshansen hit upon the important piece of the puzzle that can't be overlooked- "you are gay".


Hollisterman214:

I don't have a feel for exactly how homophobic this group of friends is. There's a difference between straight guys who use "gay" as a term to tease each other (as in, "you're so gay") versus people who really believe that gay people are wrong (as in, "gay people digust me and they are all going to hell").

What I hear you saying is something that I agree with- many homophobic people are homophobic because they don't know anyone who is gay. The problem here is that you have not done anything to change that situation.

On one hand, you don't think it is any of their business (which is a reasonable statement). On the other hand, you' re hanging out with homophobes and you haven't done anything to confront them on it.

You're making excuses and enabling these friends to continue in their narrow-minded ways. You can't have this one both ways.

Let's change the parameters a bit and maybe it will be a little clearer.

Let's say you were Jewish. This is something that most people would say is something that is not always apparent about a person. Now, let's say that you were hanging out with a bunch of people who talked about how they don't like Jews.

You have three choices in this situation:
1. You can shut up, say nothing while you have to listen to your friends say derogatory things about you and your family
2. You can say, "Guys- I'm Jewish and I'm really offended by what you just said"
3. You can get friends who don't judge people by their race, religion, sexuality or other criteria that should not matter.

How you decide to deal with the situation is ulimately your choice.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>and am i going to get posts about how i'm really lying to them and we're not really friends?

I'll give you one. Or something similar anyway. They're not friends with YOU. Right now, they're friends with the version of you that you're presenting. That's not too surprising - we tend to put our best face forward, especially when we first meet each other. But as we get to know our friends, we learn about their failings, their problem, and their aspects that we originally didn't know. Strong friendships can withstand these with little to no problem. Weak ones will alter considerably, or vanish altogether.

If one of my "fnends" was homophobic, I wouldn't want to hang out with him. Some might forgive him because he's ignornat, but he's only ignorant because people are conspiring to keep him ignorant. And the biggest culprit would be me.

Lex

 

[RyeGuy]

Ok, i accept all the points are valid. I may even be persuaded to agree with them.

but how do you just stop being friends with someone? it's just that it seems kind of unfair that your choice of friends suddenly becomes limited by something you don't control.

i guess it's also a bit of not wanting to be rejected based on what gender i like.

 

[probeteam1]

Nobody else here can tell you how to pick your friends, nor how to treat them. Well, we can, but nothing obligates you to do as we say.

For me, having a problem with homosexuality isn't a deal-breaker for me unless my homosexuality is a deal-breaker for ththem. If they can live with my sinful ways, I can live with their disapproval. I've never had a friend ditch me because I'm gay, but I have written off a few whose attitudes toward gay people (and thus toward me) I can't stand. Make a big enough ass of yourself and I'm through with you, no matter what cause.

That said, however, this sort of friendship does come with some additional qualifiers. It still has to be at least a little honest and respectful. I'll accept that they believe what I do on weekends is kinda gross (or even immoral) if they'll accept that I'm still going to do it. No hiding who I am because I'm afraid of their reactions; at this point, any of my "friends" who aren't privy to my sexual tastes aren't really my friends - not because people never ever lie to their friends, but because if I haven't told them it's because I just can't be bothered to deal with their reaction. If I cared enough to call them friends, I'd make the effort to work it out.

But if one of my friends has a poor opinion of gay people, he's better have a very good reason why that opinion doesn't apply to me, because I'm not so masochistic as to maintain friendships with people who dislike me.

Ok, i accept all the points are valid. I may even be persuaded to agree with them.

but how do you just stop being friends with someone? it's just that it seems kind of unfair that your choice of friends suddenly becomes limited by something you don't control.

Your choice of friends is always limited by things you don't control - no matter how much you like them, you can't magically make them like everything about you, from the sex of your romantic partners to the color of your hair.

Of course, there are degrees. And someone who dislikes homosexuality might be a redeemable friend where someone with a bias against redheads is not, but the point remains: you could probably vastly expand your friendships if you were willing to fake your identity and personaliy to each friend - a Catholic one day and a Pagan the next, straight to one friend and gay to another - but I personally want friends with whom I can be myself, because when else can I be myself, if not among friends?

Ending a friendship is actually relatively easy. You just stop talking to the person. Of else you you make it clear you're not interested in friendship anymore saying "We're not friends anymore" is kinda grade-school, but something along the lines of "I don't think we should hang out any more because you're homophobic" might do the trick.

If you're the non-confrontational type, you could just stop returning their calls, or if you are the confrontational type you could call them out the next time they make any objectionable remarks on the issue.

i guess it's also a bit of not wanting to be rejected based on what gender i like.

I agree that it sucks, but is the answer really to hide those things that would get you rejected? I try to find friends who'll accept those things. Friends are supposed to be the people who make you feel better when they're around, who you can lean on when in need - how well can you do those things when you also have to maintain a front the whole time?

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>but how do you just stop being friends with someone? it's just that it seems kind of unfair that your choice of friends suddenly becomes limited by something you don't control.

You give them the opportunity to show themselves to be good friends. Ideally, you tell them that you're gay, and you wish they'd knock off the homophobic comments. If you're not willing to take that leap, you can keep it impersonal. Tell them you know some gay guys (if they ask "who", tell them you don't want to tell), and when you they make homophobic comments, it pisses you off. Once they know it offends you, they should back off. If they don't, if they're more concerned about maintaining their machismo image than about not offending you, well, you've got your answer.

Lex