Is the race card overplayed?

[Apollo]

Well back to the article in the OP. The victim is handling it in a mature way.

Henry Louis Gates has given a couple interviews about his arrest at his home in Cambridge last week, and though he's still mad, he seems fairly magnanimous about the whole affair: "I'm glad that this lady called 911."

Gates granted an interview to his daughter Elizabeth in the Daily Beast (which—between contributors Meghan McCain and Luke Parker Bowles—is rapidly becoming the outlet of choice for the blood kin of the contemporary aristocracy).

His take on his own tour through the criminal justice system is tempered by his role as an educator, which makes him laudably reasonable about something that justifiably pissed him of royally. While some observers—well, OK, this observer—were quick to accuse the white Harvard employee who called the cops after seeing Gates and his driver trying to enter his home of racism, Gates disagrees:

http://gawker.com/5320294/henry-lou...grown+up-about-that-whole-racist-arrest-thing

 

[SonOfSlobone]

While some observers—well, OK, this observer—were quick to accuse the white Harvard employee who called the cops after seeing Gates and his driver trying to enter his home of racism, Gates disagrees:

That's the interpretation of the guy who wrote the article. What Gates actually said is:

If I had been white this incident never would have happened. He would have asked at the door, "Excuse me, are you okay? Because there are two black men around here try'na rob you [laughter] and I think he also violated the rules by not giving his name and badge number, and I think he would have given that to one of my white colleagues or one of my white neighbors. So race definitely played a role. Whether he's an individual racist? I don't know-I don't know him. But I think he stereotyped me.

So he stops about 1 millimeter short of calling the cop a racist.

But you know? I think the word "racist" has kind of lost its meaning anyway. I mean for one thing (sing along):

​

 

[Apollo]

Mr. Gates is certainly milking this for all it's worth. Boo-hoo, life is so hard on an affluent Harvard academic who lives in a leafy New England suburb. Gimme a break.

For the record, he was arrested for disorderly conduct, not "attempting to break into his own home." Like I said earlier, co-operate with officers and you won't get arrested. Don't come out shouting things about the officer's mother, like Gates did.

I guess you didn't get it where he said he didn't find the cop racist.

And as the foremost educator on black america and issues, it seems to stand like a good idea to make a documentary on this type of thing. He is...well...doing his job.

Why are people so jealous of people who work hard to make their money and gain their prestige?

 

[Apollo]

I'm not jealous. I have a background in academia. Trust me, I know an opportunist when I see one.

It is a great opportunity to educate people. Which he said.

I don't see what problem you have with it?

And what is a background in academia? Did you go to college for a year or something?

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

I think it is easy for anyone to say that the race card is overplayed when they have always been in the privileged, white group.

And what about the vast majority of us that aren't in this "priviledged" group? Just because someone is white doesn't automatically make them priviledged...And you may want to keep in mind that Gates was in the privileged group.

Until you have experienced life as a minority you really have no grounds to speak on such issues. This is my opinion, of course.

I'm not really sure how to reply to this. I mean, blacks aren't the only group being discriminated against, and pretty much everyone has suffered due to bigotry at one point or another. I think it's pretty ignorant of other's peoples experience to say that only a "minority" can suffer from it. What about Jews? Mexicans? Over-weight people? Ugly people? And aren't attractive people looked down on as "not so intelligent"? Heck, what about women, who at 52% of the population still have to deal with some forms of discrimination (will she or won't quit when she gets married primary among them). Even men are being discriminated against; just look at sitcoms on one hand and some careers (do you really trust a male nurse or male teacher?).

I don't think saying "you need to be need a minority to know discrimination" is a safe statement...

RG

 

[Passion4Muzik]

Get some black friends and you won't have to ask this question anymore.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

The glorification of violence is in all facets of our society well beyond Rap Music.

To a degree, true. And you did bring up some great points. HOWEVER, in rap music you have the unusual situation where people take stock in committing crimes and bragging about them in order to show how legitimate they are. You've had rappers sue papers because they revealed that the rapper didn't half the crimes he took credit for. You even had a war between two coasts where the antagonists got more street cred with every shooting. It's one of the few careers where demonstrations of violence are a good thing for somene's career...

Poverty is perhaps the greatest reasons why a person commits a crime. To elimante poverty you have to decrease the high school drop out rate and increase the rention of great teachers in low income schools. Beyond that you have to make sure that all school are equal.

Duh. But at the same time you have anti-education movements going through the black community, and parents that would prefer their kids to be working rather than pursuing higher education. For that matter, the kids themselves don't see any value in school, and have in fact been told that anything they do is worthless.

Think about what you've said: If I were a black kid listening to what you're saying, why should I even bother? I'm just going to get toppled down by The Man, so why even bother?

The educational opportunities from one high school to another very dramatically even in one city much less a state or country.

Not really. Even a few years ago, sure. However, you have services that will track down scholarships and grants for you, higher education through correspondence is taking on new life thanks to the internet, and you've even had inner city kids graduate and go on to Yale and Harvard on full scholarships.

Education is what you make of it. You want to succeed, you will find a way to do so...

RG

High school drop out rates are highest in minority groups but also the other indicator for the rate of high school drop out rates is economic status.[/QUOTE]

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

I can speak with a fair degree of certainity about educational differences betwen schools. I went to a public high school in Texas. The science, the math, the english, the forgein language requirements, etc et al was much much much more stricter than the public high school I went to Colorado. I was a Junior when I moved to Colorado I could have graduate an entire year early just because of the differences in standards between two states. Take a look at Cherry Creek High School's website and that of say East High School. They are two school's in the Denver, Colorado area. Take a look at the classes offered, not just the requirements but the sure number of varieties of classes offered, look at the difference in the technology, the facilities, and on and on.

The vast difference here is because Cherry Creek High School is in a push neighborhood. While East High School is located on Colfax Ave. in Downtown Denver, and it is a vastily different story. I guess it is ok for a posh suburan high school to have all the great things while a school in an urban neighborhood that is less afluent have much less and a lesser degree.

I was doing a study on the differences in Educational Opporutnity between the two schools for an Ethnic Studies class at the University of Colorado Denver and East High School opened there doors, there class rooms, there teachers, and there students to us, and Cherry Creek said we do not see the purpose in this.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

^Sorry that blacks aren't jumping up to follow your desires and commands for them but they're not pets.

Dude; seriously; at least act like you're reading my posts and quit spewing this crap. All I'm saying is that I'm getting tired of people looking for excuses and that things aren't as dire as they seem. Not saying that there isn't racism or bigotry (because there is) , but that there seems to be people that are using as an excuse to fail rather than finding ways around it...

Nothing you're talking about is without reason, but, without considering reasons, the only assumed explanation is that they're inferior.

Could I get a translation, please? How can what I'm saying is without reason (which implies that I have considered reasons) and yet apparently I haven't considered reason....Weird.

Why aren't they taking advantage of education? Why aren't they taking scholarships, I thought they were supposed to LOOOOVE free stuff.

Ignoring the insertion of words into my mouth, could the reason that they aren't taking advantage of education is because people like you are telling them not to because it does them no good?

RG

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

I can speak with a fair degree of certainity about educational differences betwen schools.

Anyone who has done the research can say the same. However, those differences are because of the local culture more than they are because of the schools themselves.

You only mentioned that one school was better than the other. Neat. That's not an issue; the issue is to what degree the local culture makes the schools different. Is the crime in the area different? Do parents care more about their kids future, hoping that they will be doctors and such or will they be satisfied if their kid gets any job at all? Do the parents see the promise inherent to higher education, or do they see it as a waste? Are they doing anything to hire the best teachers, or are they doing with what they can? Is respect for authority part of the situation (which helps teachers) or are all authority figures questioned as a matter of course (which hinders teachers)?

Why one school is better than another isn't just because of where it is, but because of the support it gets from the community surrounding it.

I guess it is ok for a posh suburan high school to have all the great things while a school in an urban neighborhood that is less afluent have much less and a lesser degree.

Which, of course, is: Bullshit. If you'd bothered looking beyond your personal experience, you'd find urban schools that have great things because the community supports the education of their children. he problem is that those schools are the exception to the rule rather than the rule, which is a shame.

Cherry Creek said we do not see the purpose in this.

It happens. I think you were looking at the wrong subjects anyway, and should have ignored the schools themselves and looked at the surrounding community...

RG

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

They had something to hide or they would allowed access. The fact is we did look at surrounding communities. Let me make it a little bit more blunt for you it was a upper class almost exlusively white neighborhood (Cherry Creek). East High School is essentially in an Urban Ghetto. They draw on a weaker economic neighborhood, and they have greater number of minority students.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>it was a upper class almost exlusively white neighborhood (Cherry Creek).

As a Cherry Creek graduate, I re(pre)sent that remark!

Lex

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

Lex at least you admit that is true rather or not you REpreSENT the remeber. You being a Cherry Creek Graduate more than anybody on this board should be albe to help show the point that I am tyring to make here. I wish it were possible to show the local flavor between Cherry Creek High School and East High School.

 

[G-Lexington]

Let me see if I can do that...

A local comedian tells a joke about Colfax, the 25+ mile road that stretches from the western edge of Denver metro area to the eastern edge. "What I love best about Colfax is the utter contrasts it presents. You have a hot dog stand next to a gourmet restaurant. You have a trendy used clothing store next to the tux rental place. You have a bookstore across the street from East High School..."

Meanwhile, even back in my day (mid 80s), Cherry Creek High School had an Astroturf stadium.

Lex

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

Colfax avenue a "America's Longest Mainstreet" it stretches from Golden Colorado out into tim buk too. You have a high class mall on one end and on the other a gun firing arrange. The area around East High school let me see drugs, prositution, sex stores, strip bars.

Cherry Creek a lovely suburan area where you are not ver likely to see a person selling smack on the street openingly, the likely hood of seeing a prositute walking down the street not happening, sex stores, strip bars, and all that jazz not likely to happen.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>The area around East High school let me see drugs, prositution, sex stores, strip bars.

And a gargoyle.

Lex

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

Lex I lived in Capitol Hill for a long time, centeral Denver is an exercise in extrems. You will see multi million dollars house for a block or two then you will have a transient hotel on the corner. It is truely the flavor of life.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

They had something to hide or they would allowed access.

Or they could have simply wanted to protect the privacy of their students. There's not always some conspiracy theory going on...

And I get that you think that Wealth=Academic Success. It doesn't. Sure, rich schools tend to do better, but that's because the school is backed by the parents; not only do the parents contribute to the school, but they also make sure that the students do their homework. The kids are also made painfully aware of the advantages of an education. You find the same applies to successful inner city schools as well; driven parents making sure that the kids do the homework and that the kids have a reason to go to college.

Refocusing a bit: I think that the race card, when used properly can be highly effective. However, when it's used for any interaction where a black person even feels that he or she has been slighted, then it loses its power. I knew a black woman who wouldn't step into Safeway because a clerk noticed that she was comparing microwavable dinners and asked if she could help; although it's something I would have expected the clerk to do (as they have a number of times), she took offense at the "racist" situation. When the same woman went to Macy's, the salesman wanted to know if he could help her with pants; she again took it as a "racist" remark (I can't see a situation where a salesman wouldn't want to "help" a customer into a higher purchase).

You really want to see this action, track Black.White. (from the FX network a few years back). The black couple were constantly taking offense at things, regardless of the actual context. The first few minutes the black father got ticked at some racist kids; all they had done was to get out off the sidewalk when he was walking through (something I've learned to expect as an adult); it wasn't until I was living in a black neighborhood when I realized that kids showing adults respect wasn't the norm. It got more interesting to watch as the series progressed; the mother was surprised that a white woman would back down a cop who was bragging about pulling over some Mexican kids and the two of them were surprised that someone could leave a wallet unattended in a bar and expect to come back to it ("You'd never see something like that in a black bar!" said the dad, and the mother agreed with him).

Just trying to say that, when it comes down to it, the race card shouldn't be trotted each and every time a black person gets nailed by someone else. I'm just starting hit the point that it's counter-productive, putting it nicely; it's honestly hitting the point where there is going to be some backlash and I don't see that as a great development....

RG

 

[ABoyNamedSue]

There are so many things I disagree with you on this, and all I am saying is you have my opinion and you have yours...