Is there a clear line in the U.S. between 'Mainline' and 'Evangelical' Protestant?

[ChickenGuy]

A year or so back I visited the website www.thearda.com and found the statistical numbers and denominations really interesting - I would like to hear your views on this....

According to this website, in the 2000 survey:

Catholic - 62,035,042
Evangelical Protestant - 39,994,852
Mainline Protestant - 26,091,321

A breakdown of the church memberships:

LARGEST 10 MAINLINE PROTESTANT:

1. The United Methodist Church - 10,350,629
2. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America - 5,113,418
3. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) - 3,141,566
4. Episcopal Church - 2,314,756
5. American Baptist Churches in the USA - 1,767,462
6. United Church of Christ: - 1,698,918
7. Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) - 1,017,784
8. Reformed Church in America - 335,677
9. Friends (Quakers) - 113,086
10. National Association of Congregational Christian Churches - 84,380

LARGEST 10 EVANGELICAL PROTESTANT:

1. Southern Baptist Convention - 19,881,467
2. Assemblies of God - 2,561,998
3. Lutheran Church--Missouri Synod - 2,521,062
4. Churches of Christ - 1,645,584
5. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ - 1,439,253
6. Independent, Non-Charismatic Churches - 1,116,769
7. Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) - 974,198
8. Independent, Charismatic Churches - 935,168
9. Seventh-day Adventist Church - 923,046
10. Church of the Nazarene - 907,331

What do people here make of these numbers? Is there a very clear distinction between Mainline and Evangelical? And within each group, are there major differences in teaching, beliefs, and message?

All these different names, they mean very little to me - opinions appreciated.

 

[sixthson]

First, let me say I would make a distinction between "membership" and regular attenders. Many denominations never remove people from their membership roles even though they have not been to church in years. This would make their numbers larger than they actually are. For example, the Methodist church is dwindling but they are at the top of the list for mainline protestant churches. I suspect the Lutherans far outnumber them, in reality. I believe many mainline denominations may die with their aging congregations because young people are not joining. Evangelical churches, on the other hand are growing by leaps and bounds and full of young people.

As for theological differences between mainline and evangelical churches, they are vast. Evangelicals hold to the inerrancy of scripture, salvation by grace alone through faith, the belief that works are a product of salvation and not the other way around (as opposed to Catholics), etc.
Mainline protestant churches have become very political and question many of the long held beliefs of orthodox Christianity, such as the virgin birth and divinity of Jesus, the need for blood atonement through Jesus Christ on the cross. They would likely believe there are many ways to God i.e. Islam, hinduism, mormonism, etc, which evangelicals would vigorously deny.

Evangelicals would call homosexuality a sin, while many (if not most) mainline churches would be accepting i.e. the decision of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America voting for the ordination of gay clergy this past summer.

Even within each denomination, you would find strong differences. Assemblies of God and other pentecostal churches believe in speaking in tongues while many Baptists would say they believe that gift passed away with the apostles of Bible times. While Baptists, AofG, Nazarenes would teach believer's baptism, the evangelical Lutherans would baptize babies.

Really, a person could go on and on about the differences between the mainline protestant and evangelical protestants without even touching on Catholicism.

This, of course, is all very general. It might be easier to break it down into more specific questions.

 

[dscottsw]

What a great analysis of the Mainline and Evangelical dynamics. Well done!!

 

[Kulindahr]

That's a good question.

In general, one difference is that mainline ones tend to accomplish things through large bureaucracies, while evangelicals tend to rely on individual energy.

Noting the presence of the Lutheran Church -- Missouri Synod on the list, I'll point out that one problem here is that among the evangelical list there isn't agreement on what that word even means.


The distinction between membership and attendance is significant. To many mainline churches, and even to some evangelical (again, the LC-MS here), membership is a matter of classes and actually signing something. That's becoming more the case with evangelicals, too, as they have gone to publishing sort of yearbooks of members, but a lot of times it's just an averaging of the attendance figures.


One difference with regard to scholarship is that the evangelicals almost unanimously reject a lot of the 'tools' the mainline folks do, considering them (sometimes rightly) mind games that let one impose one's own views on scripture rather than read it for what it says. OTOH, that leaves many evangelicals closed off to actually understanding the Bible, leading them instead down paths just as unfruitful as some their mainline brethren fall onto.

 

[ChickenGuy]

I believe many mainline denominations may die with their aging congregations because young people are not joining. Evangelical churches, on the other hand are growing by leaps and bounds and full of young people.

Sadly, this obviously indicates that the trend will swing even further towards Evangelical in the future - even further than their current 60-40 split based on the figures above.

I should probably mention another important figure from that site:

Unclaimed - 140,057,419

This figure is more than all Catholic and all Protestants put together, but probably only means that there is more data gathering and fact checking to do.

It would be interesting to know, however, the number of people in the United States that could be categorised under 'Atheist/Agnostic/Non-religious/Non-commital'

On another part of the site, they give this as 11% of the population, and the figure I come to in my head with that is 30,000,000.

Are there 30,000,000 who are, to varying degrees, not religious?

And, by far the most important question of all, which way is the pendulum swinging when it comes to the ratio of religious to non-religious? Is the U.S. trending towards secularism, or trending towards ever increasing, and apparently ever more evangelical, religious beliefs?

 

[TX-Beau]

Hell most of the religious are not religious. Why? Because in the US we love to call ourselves religious, because that's tied to respectability in the national psyche, but if you ask further, you'll find that the numbers of the actually religious fall very quickly.

I find that most people are incidentally religious (Christmas/Easter), if they go to church at all. Plus I think that it's also generational. More of the older generation (a big part of our population) seems to be more religious than people my age (mid 30's.)

All this is just my experience/opinion however.

My family is Southern Baptist, and their church certainly isn't growing by leaps and bounds. I'm still a member, though I've been a godless faggot for 15 years and the pastor knows it.

 

[Kulindahr]

Hell most of the religious are not religious. Why? Because in the US we love to call ourselves religious, because that's tied to respectability in the national psyche, but if you ask further, you'll find that the numbers of the actually religious fall very quickly.

The tie to respectability depends on your location and economic status, too. In rural Oregon, going to church is still a respectable thing; in urban Oregon, it can get you strange looks.

I find that most people are incidentally religious (Christmas/Easter), if they go to church at all. Plus I think that it's also generational. More of the older generation (a big part of our population) seems to be more religious than people my age (mid 30's.)

I was in on discussion at a Lutheran church once which was looking at its membership list. One of the elders suggested trimming anyone who didn't come at least one a month. That got toned down to once a season, but even that slashed one in five from the rolls -- and that after everyone was informed of the new policy and given a year to show where they stood.

But it did mean that the Christmas/Easter crowd started showing up (gasp!) twice as often as they used to.

 

[LinusQ]

Chicken guy -

It's interesting that you only find it necessary to ask about the difference between mainline and evangelical, as if all the distinctions among them didn't have any significance. Among some branches of classical protestants, doctrine is still taken very seriously, but broadly speaking a lot of christians don't even think about it. I am sure many mainline lutherans couldn't tell you much about the difference between their doctrine ( in theory ) and those of the calvinist or puritan streams. Also there are huge variations within denominations. Some of the "prosperity gospel" evangelists are presbyterian. Norman Vincent Peale decided early in his ministry not to preach about sin, hell and such stuff, and to look on the positive side. Richard Schuler, of crystal cathedral fame, has a similar approach, while other presbyterians are still fretting about predestination and fine shades of Augustine.

It may be a good thing if christians are focusing more on common ground than difference, but I suspect it means that, to an increasing number of people, doctrine doesn't matter, as to the broader community, religion doesn't matter. They are more interested in having a satisfying experience at church.

 

[Kulindahr]

It may be a good thing if christians are focusing more on common ground than difference, but I suspect it means that, to an increasing number of people, doctrine doesn't matter, as to the broader community, religion doesn't matter. They are more interested in having a satisfying experience at church.

That's a good diagnosis, and it points to the very clear and present danger of "evangelicals": without an anchor in Christian truth from the ages, they drift and wander according to fad and feeling. That carries over to their dealings with society, so they come to the never-stated conclusion that the world should conform to their happy experience on Sunday: they want not only their church to be comfortable for them, but their world.

Thus their social crusades aren't focused at all on real Christian issues, but on things which make them uncomfortable. They just mine the Bible for things to back up their likings and dislikings, and have no interest whatsoever in actually treating what the Bible says as a whole in a balanced and rational fashion.