Is tipping basically mandatory?

[TickTockMan]

I tip what I feel like. I usually don't tip for drinks, or take out service though. I don't see the point of tipping people that are doing just the basics of their job.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Were we wrong here? I honestly didn't know that you had to tip in a bar and I especially didn't think that you had to do it after every drink. Isn't tipping supposed to be optional anyway? What are the rules for tipping? What people are you supposed to tip? Have you ever had bad experiences with people calling you out for not tipping?

It is "mandatory" in a unwritten rule sort of way.

If the service is fine I don't see a reason to not tip, even if the service isn't good just tip lower. Generally I tip a dollar a drink, it seems to be okay with most places and I see most people tip that way. If it was an honest mistake, don't worry about it.

I generally haven't had bad experiences because I tip decently at least. Though I remember a bartender getting upset with my younger brother for not tipping as he was getting drinks, when he was just planning to do a full tip when he was done. I thought she was rude.

 

[eastofeden]

I was just thinking about how it can be inappropriate to overtip.....

I don't want to say his name as he was a famous celebrity for decades though it probably wouldn't matter at this point since he is long ago dead...but I had to go to his room to give him room service and I knocked and he told me to come in..the door was unlocked..he was naked and I suspect drunk though I don't think anything sexual was up though the waitress that had been waiting on him did beg me to go now that I think about it again and maybe he was thinking she was gonna show up LOL....

...anyway...I put his food down and was ready to leave and he asked me if I wanted a tip. I really wanted to leave ...it smelled bad in there....and he had a dresser full of crumpled up bills..like he was playing basketball with money...and he told me to take however much I thought I was worth.

Uh...I was thinking...you are drunk and naked dude and I am not gonna play mind games with you or take advantage of you...so I took a dollar bill which at the time was standard for a breakfast and he started in on me thinking I am only worth a dollar. I put the dollar back and smiled and told him to enjoy his meal and left while he was still ranting. I rolled my eyes at Diane when she asked me if I enjoyed the visit....

 

[NotHardUp1]

Although Reagan's reforms were certainly regressive, they were in part in response to the large, very large, underground economy in the U.S. and abroad. Vast amounts of money change hands untaxed, and many, many workers simply lie about cash income. Whereas it is popular to always portray tippers workers as grinding away in poverty, that is sometimes true, sometimes not.

The range is quite broad, and fraud still is rampant even now that there is a tax on assumed tips. And with the behavior you encountered, you can be sure that the bartender is making a lot more than 8% as an average.

You encounter a similar thing in buying a used car from a private party. The theft from Treasury was so rampant that states have begun taxing for registration based upon the Blue Book or NADA listed value of the car at maybe an 80% factor.

Whereas it is easy to point fingers at government and say the lower economic class should be tax exempt, the brutal truth is that the uber rich rig the tax system and are not going to give up their privilege in the U.S. any time soon. That means the rest of us are indeed obligated to pay teachers, pave roads, hire firefighters, and the rest. When scumbags hide their wages, it simply dumps the load on the "chumps" who do pay their taxes.

Even for the poor, there are often bad spending choices, cigarettes, gambling, and vices, which are certainly personal choices, but don't portray every minimum wage worker as starving to death. There is also a disproportionate alcohol and drug addiction incidence among construction and restaurant workers: https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=163490

Politics is a complex game, and there has been class warfare with taxes for a long time now. The wealthy pay a pittance by percentage, and sometimes nothing, while the poor pay regressive taxes on wages and other bases. Both sides need to be more honest about the chicanery.

 

[rareboy]

Just tip 18%.

 

[Kabluey]

I think the practise of excluding taxes and tips is an ingenious way of keeping the country's mental arithmetic up to speed.

 

[Benvolio]

Although Reagan's reforms were certainly regressive, they were in part in response to the large, very large, underground economy in the U.S. and abroad. Vast amounts of money change hands untaxed, and many, many workers simply lie about cash income. Whereas it is popular to always portray tippers workers as grinding away in poverty, that is sometimes true, sometimes not.

The range is quite broad, and fraud still is rampant even now that there is a tax on assumed tips. And with the behavior you encountered, you can be sure that the bartender is making a lot more than 8% as an average.

You encounter a similar thing in buying a used car from a private party. The theft from Treasury was so rampant that states have begun taxing for registration based upon the Blue Book or NADA listed value of the car at maybe an 80% factor.

Whereas it is easy to point fingers at government and say the lower economic class should be tax exempt, the brutal truth is that the uber rich rig the tax system and are not going to give up their privilege in the U.S. any time soon. That means the rest of us are indeed obligated to pay teachers, pave roads, hire firefighters, and the rest. When scumbags hide their wages, it simply dumps the load on the "chumps" who do pay their taxes.

Even for the poor, there are often bad spending choices, cigarettes, gambling, and vices, which are certainly personal choices, but don't portray every minimum wage worker as starving to death. There is also a disproportionate alcohol and drug addiction incidence among construction and restaurant workers: https://www.ncjrs.gov/App/Publications/abstract.aspx?ID=163490

Politics is a complex game, and there has been class warfare with taxes for a long time now. The wealthy pay a pittance by percentage, and sometimes nothing, while the poor pay regressive taxes on wages and other bases. Both sides need to be more honest about the chicanery.

The top 40% pay ALL the income tax, indeed, 106% of the income tax. The people near the bottom do not pay income tax but pay FICA which is not really income tax and does not go toward the expense of government.

 

[ElmosToe]

Many restaurants have started automatically including the tip in either the price of the menu item or the total bill.
In that sense it is mandatory because it's just part of the cost of your meal.

However, legally, it is NOT mandatory, but it is CUSTOMARY as a way of saying 'thank you' for good service.
The amount you tip or don't tip is your way of telling your server you didn't like them or their service.

generally, the amount should be anywhere between 15-20% of your bill


What irritates me about how wait staff are paid is tip sharing.

My nephew worked as a bus boy making $8/hr. While the wait staff and bartenders made $2.95/hr
The logic there was that the wait staff and bartenders made more in tips while the bussers made just their hourly wage
so tips had to be turned into the management to evenly distribute to all staff.

That is a fucked up way of running a business and a fucked way to pay employees. It breeds inequality, anger and resentment.




this may be helpful

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipped_wage_in_the_United_States

 

[peeonme]

The top 40% pay ALL the income tax, indeed, 106% of the income tax. The people near the bottom do not pay income tax but pay FICA which is not really income tax and does not go toward the expense of government.

Say it with a link, I have heard this same fertilizer being spread before.
My pay was always taxed and it was itemized.
fed.
state.
fica.
sometimes local
my refunds, if I got one never exceeded what I paid in.

 

[eastofeden]

I don't know how many of you have seen this...but some restaurant owners actually confiscate the tips....this was a shocking display of insanity if you have the time to watch it....

 

[ElmosToe]

^ Yep, saw that episode, it was fascinating to watch genuine functional insanity at work in the real world.

Thankfully, those psychotic assholes failed miserably and went out of business.

 

[zoltanspawn]

I think the practise of excluding taxes and tips is an ingenious way of keeping the country's mental arithmetic up to speed.

And what a relief it is to the mature application of manners.

 

[kallipolis]

The top 40% pay ALL the income tax, indeed, 106% of the income tax. The people near the bottom do not pay income tax but pay FICA which is not really income tax and does not go toward the expense of government.

You're obsessing over words, again.

All who purchase goods, or services pay a sales tax.

In the countries of the European Union we call this Value Added Tax (VAT).

The average VAT is 24 percent that will go to the coffers of the government.

A simple family will pay a higher proportion of their income in taxation for groceries, electricity, water, gas, rent, clothing etc. than a wealthy person.

Wealthy people are sufficiently rich to pay their accountant to avoid paying their full taxes viz. Apple Inc. and other corporations making huge profits.

 

[gayjohnd]

I'm in the UK and my friends and I only tip in restaurants by default unless the service is really bad. Once the service was so bad we walked out without even paying the bill. Nobody here tips in pubs or clubs.

I've been to the USA once and that was to Vegas. I hated the whole tipping culture there. It felt like you couldn't have a shit without tipping someone.

I didn't mind tipping the waiters/waitresses in the casinos because they bring your drink to you and will get to know what you want without having to ask you.

On the last morning we asked the hotel for help to take two bags down to the taxi. The porter took forever and we needed to get to the airport. We weren't happy with him so didn't tip. He realised we weren't going to when we got in the taxi without giving him anything. He really wasn't happy. He told the driver to take us for a ride and closed the door.
The driver didn't take us for a ride and I think he knew we weren't happy with the porter. We tipped the driver plus the tips we would have given to the porter if he was any good.

 

[frankfrank]

I'm almost 70, and this is the first time I've heard about tipping for drinks in a bar!

Seriously, never heard it discussed before. How is somebody supposed to know what to do, when it is never mentioned?

I've also never been at a bar with anybody who tipped, either, though they may have tipped and I didn't notice it.

 

[Kahaih]

I'm almost 70, and this is the first time I've heard about tipping for drinks in a bar!

Seriously, never heard it discussed before. How is somebody supposed to know what to do, when it is never mentioned?

I've also never been at a bar with anybody who tipped, either, though they may have tipped and I didn't notice it.

This is particularly interesting because you travel a lot – not stuck in a small one-bar town.

This tipping business is an odd and curious game.

Personally, I'd be offended/taken aback if someone were to hand me money for any act of kindness. It would be an insult to my sincerity/integrity.

And, it's really sad that people think/feel they have to pay others to treat them well. If there are situations where this is the case, it is not gratuity, it's extortion.

 

[frankfrank]

This is particularly interesting because you travel a lot – not stuck in a small one-bar town.

This tipping business is an odd and curious game.

Personally, I'd be offended/taken aback if someone were to hand me money for any act of kindness. It would be an insult to my sincerity/integrity.

And, it's really sad that people think/feel they have to pay others to treat them well. If there are situations where this is the case, it is not gratuity, it's extortion.

Not as interesting/surprising as you think...I don't tend to GO to bars. I'd say that, in the past forty years, while traveling, I've gone into bars no more than six or seven times on my own, it's always been with somebody else. (And, then, I'll very gladly go to restaurants or movies by myself...which are two places many people WILL NOT go alone. Go figure.) The bar culture just doesn't do anything for me - and going somewhere to "cruise for sex" is meaningless to me.

Sometimes when I've handed money to somebody for a kindness, I'll say something like "This is an exchange of kindnesses. If you prefer, you can forward it to somebody else later."

 

[ElmosToe]

Personally, I'd be offended/taken aback if someone were to hand me money for any act of kindness. It would be an insult to my sincerity/integrity.

And, it's really sad that people think/feel they have to pay others to treat them well. If there are situations where this is the case, it is not gratuity, it's extortion.

I doubt you'd feel that way if your wage was $2.95/hr while the janitor is making $10.00/hr.



Think of it this way....
Why do people pay artists for their work?
Why do people pay musicians for their music?
Why do people show up at concerts or sporting events and pay huge prices for tickets?

Could it be because they like the shit these people are dishing out?


People are willing to pay others as a show of GRATITUDE for something they like or a job well done, hence the term gratuity.

Would you expect an artist, athlete, or musician to not be paid for their work?
If the answer is no, and you realize that most servers and bartenders in restaurants make almost no wages (aka $2.13/hr)
Then why would you expect them to not be paid for their work, aka a tip by the customer for providing great service?

I don't condone it, in fact I am completely against the whole tipping system, but it's a complex issue involving politics, laws and the greed of corporations that isn't going to be solved overnight.

Meanwhile, these people who work their asses off dealing with assholes all day have to be paid somehow and still have to make some sort of ends meet to be able to support themselves and their kids if they have any. Since their selfish, corporate asshole bosses aren't willing to pay them a decent living wage, they have to get the money from somewhere.


Just sayin'.

 

[peeonme]

I usually go with 20%, 15% if the service wasn't the best. I have done 10% when it was just lousy service. I don't base the tip on the quality of the food, the server didn't cook it.

 

[Latimer]

^
Please take a look at my post #16.

In France and Italy servers get sick leave, paid vacations and health care. It's a profession and treated as such. Service is included in the price of the meal and tips are not expected.