Israel We Bless Thee! Let Me Count The Ways!

[Chalchalero]

Interesting point made by Palbert in a prior post. There were a number of assertions made in the original posting which I notice were blithely ignored by everyone here. Could it be because you know them to be true and simply would rather not face them?

I have already addressed the ridiculous sums of money you people throw at Israel.

The fact that Israel spies on you should also already be a given, so I will not bother to address that any further.

As to the claim that Israel sells the technology and weaponry that it receives from America to America's enemies, one example of this was on the BBC website back in 2004: US 'anger' at Israel weapons sale http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4101961.stm

As for the USS Liberty, anyone genuinely interested in that incident can find that information on the web. But to help you out, here is a Wikipedia article that will provide the basics: USS Liberty incident http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident

Then there is the Lavon Affair, which according to Wikipedia again:

The Lavon Affair refers to a failed Israeli covert operation, code named Operation Susannah, conducted in Egypt in the Summer of 1954. As part of the false flag operation,[1] a group of Egyptian Jews were recruited by Israeli military intelligence for plans to plant bombs inside Egyptian, American and British-owned targets. The attacks were to be blamed on the Muslim Brotherhood, Egyptian Communists, "unspecified malcontents" or "local nationalists" with the aim of creating a climate of sufficient violence and instability to induce the British government to retain its occupying troops in Egypt's Suez Canal zone.[2] The operation caused no casualties, except for those members of the cell who committed suicide after being captured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair

This was what was known as a "false flag op". Israel is infamous for them and relies upon them in order to maintain strong ties with America. America, as always, is easily duped, and normally will fall into line each time one of these ops is conducted. There is a probably (but I am not sure) exhaustive list of them all here: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message879373/pg1

A for Monica Lewinsky, there are some interesting articles on that here: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/mossadbug.html

here: http://www.rense.com/general69/col.htm

and here: http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2001/2833mega_spy.html

She is only briefly mentioned in the third link, but I thought you might find the article interesting at any rate.

As for Jonathan Pollard, need I really say anything here? If I were an American, I would be pissed off by that mess alone. but that's just me, I suppose.

I could go on and on with providing evidence for each and every claim in the post, but that would take too long and I have lunch awaiting me. Do the research yourselves and stop blindly accepting the AIPAC view of the world. I can assure you that you will be duly horrified, but enlightened.

This is the sort of stuff that should be pissing you off and galvanising you. Not the fact that someone points it out to you. Are you blind or just too lazy to think for yourselves? Just curious...

 

[LittleDove]

Since you're using the LaRouche site to bolster and substantiate your claims, it seems fair to ask if you're an operative of his organisation.

 

[Kulindahr]

I never said the "moderators" hate "all things Arab." I said you do, and that the "moderators" happily accommodate you. And I am claiming that you have a sickeningly obsessive love of Zionism. I thought I was clear. So sorry. Hope I have been now.

You see what you want to see, and disregard the rest.

 

[Kulindahr]

You have an excellent memory and are quite correct. I was born and raised a Traditionalist Catholic, and while I never mentioned SSPX specifically, I will state here and now that I have always been a member. This is true. But what exactly does this have to do with the topic at hand, I wonder?

You're a Lefebvrist, and you don't see how that's relevant? Wow.

Since you're using the LaRouche site to bolster and substantiate your claims, it seems fair to ask if you're an operative of his organisation.

Lefebvre and LaRouche -- what a combo! An arrogant rebel and a nut case.

 

[kallipolis]

You're a Lefebvrist, and you don't see how that's relevant? Wow.



Lefebvre and LaRouche -- what a combo! An arrogant rebel and a nut case.

The SSPX Bishop Richard Williams (1) fiasco revealing his denial of The Holocaust is a case in point worth noting when SSPX members are discussing matters pertinent to Israel.

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Williamson_(bishop)

 

[kallipolis]

You have an excellent memory and are quite correct. I was born and raised a Traditionalist Catholic, and while I never mentioned SSPX specifically, I will state here and now that I have always been a member. This is true. But what exactly does this have to do with the topic at hand, I wonder?

Anti-Jewish invective, and denial of The Holocaust has been demonstrated by many members of SSPX.

Should I continue.... ?

 

[Kulindahr]

The SSPX Bishop Richard Williams (1) fiasco revealing his denial of The Holocaust is a case in point worth noting when SSPX members are discussing matters pertinent to Israel.

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Williamson_(bishop)

A kid I've striven to help straighten out his life had a choice in prison: be the bitch for a half-dozen guys, or turn skinhead. With already white-pread leanings, his choice was simple.

Every now and then he mail me some of his reading material from prison -- all racist, anti-Jewish and such. One pamphlet was filled with this guy's ravings.

I hadn't made the Lefebvrist connection till now -- thanks! I wonder if he knows he's a neo-Nazi hero of sorts.

 

[Chalchalero]

Since you're using the LaRouche site to bolster and substantiate your claims, it seems fair to ask if you're an operative of his organisation.

I used one example from there. Everything else came from elsewhere. Interesting how you missed that. I am pretty sure you did not open any of the links anyway.

 

[Chalchalero]

The SSPX Bishop Richard Williams (1) fiasco revealing his denial of The Holocaust is a case in point worth noting when SSPX members are discussing matters pertinent to Israel.

(1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Williamson_(bishop)

This and many other stories have often been used to cast aspersions on the entire community. Nothing new there. One person does something, everyone must be guilty by association. It may interest you to know that the Society distanced itself from Williamson after he made those comments. It is actually in the article you cited. Did you actually read it?

I will not, yet again, allow my religious beliefs to come under criticism by you people. They are not your business and have no bearing on the facts that I have offered up. My motivations for believing what I believe are not germane here. Unless you can answer to the actual facts that I have laid out, you are merely engaging in abusive ad hominem.

 

[Chalchalero]

Anti-Jewish invective, and denial of The Holocaust has been demonstrated by many members of SSPX.

Should I continue.... ?

Please do. You still as of yet have not offered up anything which disproves anything that I have written. What members of SSPX may or may not have done still does not change this fact.

 

[Chalchalero]

For the record: You may not like the sources I use to get my information and you may not like where I choose to pray or with whom. You are entitled to your opinions.

However, when you use these as an excuse to duck the main issue and do not even attempt to dispute what I have posited you are being dishonest, disingenuous and intellectually lazy.

You cannot engage the conversation on its merits because you fear that what I am saying is true and this forces you to question the basic value system which has been thrust down your throats since infancy:

No one may question Israel. Israel is a good and loyal ally. Israel is a poor innocent little victim who needs everyone's support and protection. Funding Israel is far more important than caring for your own citizens.

It is understandable that this would frighten you. No one likes to have their core beliefs questioned, let alone shattered. I do understand. Truly.

 

[Chalchalero]

You see what you want to see, and disregard the rest.

I have read the repulsive comments you have written regarding Arabs and Muslims in general, so I think I have seen more than enough.

 

[Kulindahr]

I have read the repulsive comments you have written regarding Arabs and Muslims in general, so I think I have seen more than enough.

I write repulsive comments about Muslims, Democrats, Nazis, Republicans, Christians, Buddhists, Japanese, Hindus, communists, Roman Catholics, environmentalists, Jews, Congressmen, Eastern Orthodox, Fox News, the United States, unions... and on and on.

And people who actually pay attention here know that I defend all of the above as well.

As I said, you see what you want to see, and disregard the rest. That you can pigeonhole me with a tidy label tells me you can't read anything well enough for me to take any of your views seriously. That you draw on conspiracy theorists to "prove" your views merely confirms it.

 

[Kulindahr]

Wow... that's some way to treat others on here. "By you people"? Let me tell you something. That's not how you should treat anyone when engaging in a discussion. You went off the handle when you improperly quoted an article. This is not about censorship, but about following proper guidelines. And as far as the substance, this is one of the rare occasions I agree with Jackoroe.

I will note in passing that he ignored my explanation that he stuck himself in a hole he dug with his one quote about the rules governing use of documents. I still haven't gotten an answer to whether he considers himself to be the owner of Facebook.

 

[Chalchalero]

Wow... that's some way to treat others on here. "By you people"? Let me tell you something. That's not how you should treat anyone when engaging in a discussion. You went off the handle when you improperly quoted an article. This is not about censorship, but about following proper guidelines. And as far as the substance, this is one of the rare occasions I agree with Jackoroe.

And as far as Israel is concerned, I have many problems with how they operate. But uncorroborated claims need to be backed up by credible sources. Lyndon LaRouche and Rense are not considered verifiable websites. Israel is far from a perfect country, and I honestly view all of those in the Middle East (whether it be Israel, Hezbollah, or Hamas) with great suspicion.

Where you get "information" matters. There are a significant amount of claims and rhetoric on the internet that lack proper backing. People can make a website and post claims... but that doesn't give credibility to those claims.

I don't recall anyone writing disparaging claims about Arabs or Muslims on here. There may be issues with the treatment of LGBT people in various Muslim countries, but these are valid problems that many feel. And like it or not, Israel is the only one want that won't send you to prison, have dozens of public lashings, or worse... merely for your sexual orientation.

I have no idea what you would have preferred I write in place of "you people". You are all, I presume, people. And I wanted it to be a general statement. I will not go through the bashing of my religion again. I should not have to. It has nothing to do with the topic at hand. That simple.

As for where I get information, if the one or two sources I cited that offended you are so wrong, then why not prove it? I remember the old saying that just because someone is paranoid does not mean that no one is after them. Just because you disrespect a source does not automatically negate the veracity of the information provided. (Unless it's Fox News...)

Bring out some facts to prove that what I have posted is in any way inaccurate. Just because you say it is not true does not make it so. I know that Americans are brainwashed from an early age to believe that Israel can do no wrong, but as you have already stated, you do not believe this. So how about actually opening the links rather than simply judging the sources and see what is being said. Prove to me that this information is wrong and I will stop spreading it. I promise.

 

[Chalchalero]

I will note in passing that he ignored my explanation that he stuck himself in a hole he dug with his one quote about the rules governing use of documents. I still haven't gotten an answer to whether he considers himself to be the owner of Facebook.

It was an incredibly stupid question so I ignored it.

 

[jackoroe]

OK, this thread has officially crashed and burned.

Closed.