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It shouldn't be called Gay Pride

Well, what exactly are we celebrating? A riot? Or a the spirit behind the riot?

Independence Day does not celebrate the signing of the Declaration of Independence (otherwise you might call it Signing Day, fewer syllables), it celebrates Independence itself. We don't celebrate the war fought to gain our sovereignty from England, we celebrate the thing we were fighting for.

Pride does not just celebrate the Stonewall Riots, it celebrates the concept that was born during those Riots, the pride we have in ourselves, our refusal to cower in the dark any longer, our refusal to pretend to be other than we are. We are what we are, we stand up proud and unafraid... that's what Stonewall was about... so it makes sense to call the parades and festivals Pride.

I do object to calling it "Mardi Gras" as they do in some places, though. Anything based in Catholicism is suspect for a gay tradition. And I have nothing to say about Bastille Day... that's one of the silliest designations for a national holiday ever. But I guess the Bastille is nicer to think about, since nobody got killed there, than the systematic murder of thousands of aristocrats and royalists that formed the centerpiece of the French Revolution.
Perhaps you took my comment a little too literally. I'm not advocating a celebration of a NY City bar. Search wikipedia for National Day, and you'll see virtually every country on earth celebrates a declaration of independence or revolution (one major exception is Germany's unification day). Obviously, they are not celebrating the killing of fellow humans, just as Stonewall Day isn't celebrating violence or a bar in NYC, just as Bastille Day isn't celebrating a prison fortress.

Every country/people has a celebration of themselves via independence or a patron saint or something similar. None is called a pride event--pride is just one element of the celebration.
 
and who's going to do that?

You. Me. All of us. The organizers. The media.

We all know about Martin Luther King day. St. Patrick's Day. Kwanzaa.
 
Stonewall represents pride but it also represents independence, rights, sexuality, and liberation.

It celebrates who we are.
 
It's amazing how far we've come in the past 41 years since Stonewall.

And it's amazing how far we have to go. Face it ... a man who's in love with another man freaks other people out. And it makes us ashamed of who and what we are. Sex is kinda embarrassing to most people (with a shred of modesty), and deviant sex ... it's hard to be proud.

We're just too small and disliked a minority to ever think we're home free. Pride, in who and what we are. We're different, different is good. Cherish the difference. Be proud, not ashamed. When you're ashamed, you can't speak up, or speak out. Shame does that to a person. Our adversaries count on that.

Eternal vigilance, and pride ... that's what'll really keep us free. pride:

:=D: Very well put. Simply because pride is an antonym of the word shame - and there is no shame in being Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual or Transgendered.
 
If half my friends had their way it would be Lady Gaga Appreciation Day. :p
 
I like that we use the term pride. We should be proud of who we are after generations of hiding it and being ashamed of who we secretly loved. The parades may have started as a way to remember the Stonewall riots and they are a part of our gay history, however... we have come a long way since then and it's really not about Stonewall anymore. For younger people and certainly for people outside the USA, Stonewall doesn't loom quite so large.
 
Perhaps you took my comment a little too literally. I'm not advocating a celebration of a NY City bar. Search wikipedia for National Day, and you'll see virtually every country on earth celebrates a declaration of independence or revolution (one major exception is Germany's unification day). Obviously, they are not celebrating the killing of fellow humans, just as Stonewall Day isn't celebrating violence or a bar in NYC, just as Bastille Day isn't celebrating a prison fortress.

Every country/people has a celebration of themselves via independence or a patron saint or something similar. None is called a pride event--pride is just one element of the celebration.
I see your point, but I question the wisdom of taking a nationalist model rather than creating our own model. I mean, we GLBTs don't celebrate our independence from a conqueror or colonist; we don't celebrate the founding of an autonomous nation; we do, in a way, celebrate a revolution for freedom within our own nation that had its most dramatic turning-point at Stonewall, but that revolution is still going on, forty-odd years later... rather premature to celebrate it as successful.

And if you consider nationalist "diaspora" holidays like St. Patrick's Day, Cinco de Mayo, and Columbus Day, celebrated by immigrant groups but not really celebrated in their countries of origin... you have to question the wisdom of celebrating such nebulous persons and dates.

I mean, it's questionable if St. Patrick ever even existed, and certainly mythological that he drove the snakes from Ireland. And do people even care about why they wear green, do they care about the history of the Irish-American? No, they just drink green beer until they fall on their faces. And what about Cinco de Mayo? It celebrates a turning-point in Mexico's battle for independance from France, but how many people even know what that battle was called, or who won, or what it's all about? Most folks take it as a reason to drink cerveza until they fall on their faces. And Columbus Day is just... well, the jury is still out on the relevance of Columbus in our national conscience, nobody celebrates it anymore (except in NYC), he's gone from a hero of discovery to a villain of colonialism in two generations.

So why should we follow these examples? Having the historical information in the name of the day doesn't help educate people... I know about these things, have looked some of them up on Widipedia in fact, because I'm a smartypants; but most people don't bother. And tying the concept of community pride to an object or a person or a date can be counterproductive if that object or person or date falls into disrepute.

I certainly don't want the history of the Stonewall Riots to fall into the mists of time, but I really don't see how calling our parades and festivals "Stonewall" instead of "Pride" will help that.

We need to be educating our own young people about Stonewall, about the Mattachine Society and the Kinsey Report and Harvey Milk and Lawrence v Texas and a lot of other milestones in our history. They aren't going to get it in school, are they? But to educate anyone, you have to get their attention. "Stonewall Parade" doesn't get anybody's attention... sounds too architectural, too Civil-War-y, too inaccesible as a concept if you don't already know what it means.

From a purely marketing point of view (and in these media-saturated days, what other point of view is there), "Pride" is a better word than "Stonewall." It has strength, it has pow, it's easy to work into song lyrics. Not so much Stonewall... what rhymes with Stonewall?
 
You. Me. All of us. The organizers. The media.

We all know about Martin Luther King day. St. Patrick's Day. Kwanzaa.

Do we? I bet if you went down the street and asked people to explain hwat those are about, you'd get mostly nonsense and embarrassed stares and "I don't care"s.

I see your point, but I question the wisdom of taking a nationalist model rather than creating our own model. I mean, we GLBTs don't celebrate our independence from a conqueror or colonist; we don't celebrate the founding of an autonomous nation; we do, in a way, celebrate a revolution for freedom within our own nation that had its most dramatic turning-point at Stonewall, but that revolution is still going on, forty-odd years later... rather premature to celebrate it as successful.

And if you consider nationalist "diaspora" holidays like St. Patrick's Day, Cinco de Mayo, and Columbus Day, celebrated by immigrant groups but not really celebrated in their countries of origin... you have to question the wisdom of celebrating such nebulous persons and dates.

I mean, it's questionable if St. Patrick ever even existed, and certainly mythological that he drove the snakes from Ireland. And do people even care about why they wear green, do they care about the history of the Irish-American? No, they just drink green beer until they fall on their faces. And what about Cinco de Mayo? It celebrates a turning-point in Mexico's battle for independance from France, but how many people even know what that battle was called, or who won, or what it's all about? Most folks take it as a reason to drink cerveza until they fall on their faces. And Columbus Day is just... well, the jury is still out on the relevance of Columbus in our national conscience, nobody celebrates it anymore (except in NYC), he's gone from a hero of discovery to a villain of colonialism in two generations.

So why should we follow these examples? Having the historical information in the name of the day doesn't help educate people... I know about these things, have looked some of them up on Widipedia in fact, because I'm a smartypants; but most people don't bother. And tying the concept of community pride to an object or a person or a date can be counterproductive if that object or person or date falls into disrepute.

I certainly don't want the history of the Stonewall Riots to fall into the mists of time, but I really don't see how calling our parades and festivals "Stonewall" instead of "Pride" will help that.

We need to be educating our own young people about Stonewall, about the Mattachine Society and the Kinsey Report and Harvey Milk and Lawrence v Texas and a lot of other milestones in our history. They aren't going to get it in school, are they? But to educate anyone, you have to get their attention. "Stonewall Parade" doesn't get anybody's attention... sounds too architectural, too Civil-War-y, too inaccesible as a concept if you don't already know what it means.

From a purely marketing point of view (and in these media-saturated days, what other point of view is there), "Pride" is a better word than "Stonewall." It has strength, it has pow, it's easy to work into song lyrics. Not so much Stonewall... what rhymes with Stonewall?

:=D: ### :=D: ### :=D:
 
If half my friends had their way it would be Lady Gaga Appreciation Day. :p
Ha ha! Totally.

:=D: Very well put. Simply because pride is an antonym of the word shame - and there is no shame in being Gay, Lesbian, Bi-sexual or Transgendered.
Couldn't agree more. Pride is a huge part of it.

I like that we use the term pride. We should be proud of who we are after generations of hiding it and being ashamed of who we secretly loved. The parades may have started as a way to remember the Stonewall riots and they are a part of our gay history, however... we have come a long way since then and it's really not about Stonewall anymore. For younger people and certainly for people outside the USA, Stonewall doesn't loom quite so large.
Should we call it Black Pride Day instead of Martin Luther King Day? After all "we've come a long way since then and it's really not about Dr. King anymore. For younger people and certainly for people outside the USA, Dr. King doesn't loom quite so large." :confused:
 
I see your point, but I question the wisdom of taking a nationalist model rather than creating our own model. I mean, we GLBTs don't celebrate our independence from a conqueror or colonist; we don't celebrate the founding of an autonomous nation; we do, in a way, celebrate a revolution for freedom within our own nation that had its most dramatic turning-point at Stonewall, but that revolution is still going on, forty-odd years later... rather premature to celebrate it as successful.
Sure, but we don't celebrate Independence Day as the day we won the war; it's the day we declared our independence. Much like Stonewall.

And if you consider nationalist "diaspora" holidays like St. Patrick's Day, Cinco de Mayo, and Columbus Day, celebrated by immigrant groups but not really celebrated in their countries of origin... you have to question the wisdom of celebrating such nebulous persons and dates.

I mean, it's questionable if St. Patrick ever even existed, and certainly mythological that he drove the snakes from Ireland. And do people even care about why they wear green, do they care about the history of the Irish-American? No, they just drink green beer until they fall on their faces. And what about Cinco de Mayo? It celebrates a turning-point in Mexico's battle for independance from France, but how many people even know what that battle was called, or who won, or what it's all about? Most folks take it as a reason to drink cerveza until they fall on their faces. And Columbus Day is just... well, the jury is still out on the relevance of Columbus in our national conscience, nobody celebrates it anymore (except in NYC), he's gone from a hero of discovery to a villain of colonialism in two generations.
Actually, St. Patrick's day is the national holiday of Ireland. But they don't do the green beer crap over there.

To get more to your point, though, people just like to have a face or name attached to things like holidays. Hell, as you probably know, Easter is named after a pagan goddess! "Pride" just seems so... so... generic. It's not tied to anything specific. Nothing to mentally grasp on to, as a reminder.

So why should we follow these examples? Having the historical information in the name of the day doesn't help educate people... I know about these things, have looked some of them up on Wikipedia in fact, because I'm a smartypants; but most people don't bother. And tying the concept of community pride to an object or a person or a date can be counterproductive if that object or person or date falls into disrepute.
True. But Stonewall has stood the time of 40 years, anyway.

I certainly don't want the history of the Stonewall Riots to fall into the mists of time, but I really don't see how calling our parades and festivals "Stonewall" instead of "Pride" will help that.
As I mentioned above, "Pride" just seems so... so... generic. It's not tied to anything specific. Nothing to mentally grasp on to, as a reminder.

We need to be educating our own young people about Stonewall, about the Mattachine Society and the Kinsey Report and Harvey Milk and Lawrence v Texas and a lot of other milestones in our history. They aren't going to get it in school, are they? But to educate anyone, you have to get their attention. "Stonewall Parade" doesn't get anybody's attention... sounds too architectural, too Civil-War-y, too inaccesible as a concept if you don't already know what it means.

From a purely marketing point of view (and in these media-saturated days, what other point of view is there), "Pride" is a better word than "Stonewall." It has strength, it has pow, it's easy to work into song lyrics. Not so much Stonewall... what rhymes with Stonewall?
"The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue either. :)

As you say, we shouldn't necessarily use the same names for holidays that countries do. There is no "Independence Day" because we live mixed in with the existing (straight) culture.

To that same point, "Pride" is simply too generic. Everyone has pride. Why do The Gays have a lock on Pride that they get to use it for their holiday? Everyone has pride--what is specific to the GLBT community? What was the trigger?

Stonewall.

Of course.
 
Sure, but we don't celebrate Independence Day as the day we won the war; it's the day we declared our independence. Much like Stonewall.

To get more to your point, though, people just like to have a face or name attached to things like holidays. Hell, as you probably know, Easter is named after a pagan goddess! "Pride" just seems so... so... generic. It's not tied to anything specific. Nothing to mentally grasp on to, as a reminder.


True. But Stonewall has stood the time of 40 years, anyway.


As I mentioned above, "Pride" just seems so... so... generic. It's not tied to anything specific. Nothing to mentally grasp on to, as a reminder.


"The Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Junior" doesn't exactly roll off the tongue either. :)

As you say, we shouldn't necessarily use the same names for holidays that countries do. There is no "Independence Day" because we live mixed in with the existing (straight) culture.

To that same point, "Pride" is simply too generic. Everyone has pride. Why do The Gays have a lock on Pride that they get to use it for their holiday? Everyone has pride--what is specific to the GLBT community? What was the trigger?

Stonewall.

Of course.

Stonewall was not the trigger for gay pride, any more than the Declaration of Independence was the trigger for freedom in America. In both cases, the item of concern already exist (pride and freedom. In both cases, the events were products of the item of concern.

What Stonewall was about was being ale to be proud openly in public, not just to aspire to it, just as Independence Day was about being able to exercise traditional freedoms without fear of reprisal. So it's quite properly called PRIDE.
 
I see stonewall as the incident that led to the yearly ritual that is called the pride festival or pride parade. I think Lube makes a great point that 'pride' may be too generic, I do hear people wonder why gays have 'ownership' of the rainbow, I guess the word 'pride' could be considered the same.

Do we need to change the name in order to get the point across about stonewall, or any other event in gay history that has been a milestone for us? In my opinion, figuring out our sexualities is hard enough, and I can't fault someone for not knowing much about gay history. At least when it is called pride, or gay pride, the point is pretty clear for most people and the idea of having pride in whatever your sexuality may be is clear and that may sway more people to join us or support us. ;)
 
Maybe there should be a Stonewall day, independent from Pride Week celebrations. A more sombre day of reflection?
 
There's a Stonewall Week and a Pride Weekend.

Whoever revived this will get struck on the nose with a rolled up newspaper.
 
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