It's complex and is it over?

[brasilboy1]

Dear fellows on the way,

I've known ever since I was a teenager that I was gay. However being brought up in a strong Catholic family, it was something that I chose to hide. I'm 29 now and have just come out of the closet to my family and my most intimate friends. I will explain why I chose to come out at this time later in this post. My friends have been surprisingly supportive of me considering the fact that I am in a Catholic Seminary and my closest friends are themselves seminarians and every one of them straight save one who is a monk.

As this semester began, one of my closest friends decided to leave seminary, seeking to make a new friend, I sat at table with some of the new seminarians and introduced myself. At the end of lunch "Pato" asked me if I would like to go for a walk with him. I was very attracted to him, but was seeking only friendship. We went for our walk. As we went on our way I soon realized that I was more comfortable with him than I had ever been with anyone else. Over then next few days we would go for walks together at night. On the second night the sky was unusually clear. "Pato" asked, "Do you want lay down and watch the stars go by?" So we laid down. After about 30 minutes I noticed he had been staring at me for about 10 minutes. So I turned and looked into his eyes. I felt myself falling for him. A few days later I was working on his computer. As I was doing so he was standing behind me, with his hand on my shoulder. When I finished my work, I stood up; we were face to face. Drawn together as magnets we kissed. At first a small peck, but within seconds passionately.

Over the next few days we talked about our relationship and our limitations. We are both devout Catholics. Though we are both sexually attracted to each other, sex is not an option; on this, we both agree. The next two weeks, though difficult, were wonderful. To be held in his arms. To lay with my head on his chest. To hold his hand. To taste his kisses. Then he got a phone call from home. He dad was very ill and was dieing.

He returned home and stayed there for three weeks. Over these three weeks we talked every evening and grew more and more in love with each other. Over these three weeks thing happened which made his eventual return seem impossible and I became very scared and depressed that I was going to loose the only person I have ever loved so completely and purely. Finally, when he did return, things were very different. He seemed distant, as though he was avoiding me. He was, he admitted it. But he had good reason, a nasty rumor had started about the two of us in part of the community --- that we were fucking. But as I said earlier, we aren't in this for sex, but for love and a sense of acceptance.

This behavior continued for a five days days, until he received a message that his father had only 48 hours to live. Again he returned home. This time I received no good bye or parting words. The following day I tried to call him, but there was no answer. I continued each day, for a week, trying to call him, but he never answered. He has been online on MSN messenger, but again, he seemingly refuses to answer my messages. For both of us this is our first homosexual relationship. Perhaps he is just scared. But I cannot help but think that he wishes to end our relationship. I just wish would let me know. We had planned at the end of the year to leave seminary together.

I'm in a difficult predicament, because, if he leaves me, where in the world am I gonna find another like him? Who can love me sexually disinterestedly? I cannot go back to living a life of complete and absolute loneliness.

Yours in this struggle,
J.

 

[Horschallen]

Right now it appears he needs space and time for himself and his family. Just wait a few weeks and try again. Major events, such as death, can cause temporary changes and sometimes the changes has long lasting effects. I wish you well.

 

[brasilboy1]

There would be serious consequences that falls on you from the Church especially with the Current Pope Benedict XVI. How did you get into the seminary in the first place.

As far as consequences, the only one I know of is that if I exhibit deep-seated homosexual tendencies (actually pursuing sexual intercourse), I can no longer be a candidate for holy orders, but that is not the case with me. Falling in love and having sex are vastly different things. I will say that I am no longer considering a vocation to the priesthood. As to how I entered the seminary. There is no prohibition on men who live with homosexual attractions and are able to live chaste and celibate lives --- this is my case. I have never been sexually active, nor do I will to contravene the laws of the Church. I do not feel in the least bit condemned by the Church or by the Holy Father.

There does come responsibilities, namely to live in accord with what the Church permits. She has never condemned those who struggle together (as a couple) to live the call of the Gospel --- the call to sexual purity. She recognizes that for some the path of solitude will only lead to lives lived in promiscuity and in the same breath acknowledges that living in a chaste relationship is beyond many and therefore recommends to them celibacy (to live with no particular relationships). I know that this statement may seem two faced, but it is something which can only be understood in the light of much prayer and quiet contemplation.

I must add that I did not enter seminary out of a desire to hide my sexuality, but out of a true sense of vocation to priesthood. I have grown much spiritually and in sexual maturity since being in seminary --- these years are not counted as wasted.

 

[brasilboy1]

I thank all who responded to my post. However, I have received word from him today that our relationship is over. Now at least I can move on.

 

[thermodynamics]

You'll find another guy.

 

[Twistedup]

i like how you add 'except for one who is a monk'

 

[backpacker]

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. Your friend is deeply conflicted about his feelings and respecting his dying father who brought him up with Catholic beliefs. It's not so much a rejection of you as it is of his homosexual feelings. He probably feels that if he accepts his homosexual feelings, he will be rejecting his dad. Remain his friend, but don't expect too much from him. I suspect he will continue to keep his distance from you to avoid temptation. Sometimes life just isn't fair.

 

[brasilboy1]

backpacker,

You hit the nail on the head. I don't think that it is me that he is running away from. Although I seriously doubt that it is out of respect for his dad's religion. In fact his dad was quite angry with him for coming to seminary. This was a large part of his distress. The only thing in all of this which tempts me toward anger is the fact that he left me denying everything he told me he felt for me. But I can't be angry with him because I know that he is going through great mental and psychological anguish right now. Despite all the hurt he has caused me, I still respect him enough to love him and care about him.

He has no desire to ever hear from me again. So it is likely that I will never know if he gets the help he desperately needs. I can understand the fear that he must be going through, this was a first-time male/male relationship for both of us. The difference is that I trust my friends and family enough to talk about this, he doesn't. His fear is rejection, in his case, it is rejection by society at large because of where he is from.

Again thank you all for your very kind and loving words, you all have been very helpful to me in this time of emotional crisis. I needed some 'gay' buddies to talk too. I have only one in the real world, and seeing that he is a monk, there is only so much he can tell me.

Love you guys!
J.

 

[texan_slant]

Be there as a friend - that is what he needs first and foremost right now.

As difficult as it may seem, also give him the space that he needs - the space that he needs to process his grief, and also to process who he is, and how you fit into his life.

I wouldn't necessarily say "it's over." He is going through a lot of feelings right now - you need to give it time - esp since everything has seemed to have moved quickly. Only time will tell, and if it was meant to be, it will be.

 

[brasilboy1]

well guys,

It has been a little more than two weeks since my last post to this topic. Those two weeks have been pretty uneventful relationship wise. Pato still has not communicated to me through any means. I was rather hoping that he would not return to school, but he has. I was informed last night, by another student, that he had returned. It seemed today after lunch he wanted to talk to me, but I was talking to my mom and dad, who had come for a visit over the weekend. The thing is, I don't know if I'm ready to talk to him. My emotions are still pretty raw from having been treated so badly. I think I will continue to give him his space and not make the first move to talk to him.

Any consoling words would be much appreciated.

Very uncertain,
J.

 

[brasilboy1]

Well,

I will be finishing up my undergraduate studies very soon. After graduation, I plan to leave seminary and to go to work. However, I still find myself thinking about Patito, wondering if it was ever meant to be. While enrolled in seminary I have been afraid to contact him for fear of being dismissed if he reports me. After graduation this concern will be gone. I have not heard from him directly since November, but through mutual friends, I know that he does not plan to continue studies. I want to know if I should contact him.

After these months I have had for reflection, I believe the reason he left me is because I betrayed him. In reality, I was not given an option. But this still does not make my actions very laudable in his eyes. I loved him immensely and still have strong feelings for him today. I want to apologize to him and to see if a reconciliation is possible.

What do you guys think?

With love,
J.

 

[cityboi]

How do you think you betrayed him? By sharing an attraction and kissing him? It was so wonderful that you two could look into each other's eyes for so long and later have a passionate kiss.

A friend of mine was close to a Jesuit priest in the 70's. Every morning at breakfast the priests would meet for breakfast with their respective hook-ups from the night before.

Don't sacrifice love and sex for the church. Live your life.

 

[Darkflower]

I don't intend to be disrespectful or to pervert the sacred, but your posts have brought to mind the relationship between Jesus and John. John is the only one (to my limited knowledge) referred to as the one Jesus loved, though obviously He loved all of His disciples. What there was between Jesus and John seemed special, though.

I can't help but think there are other men who love Jesus, and who want to love another man the way that Jesus loved John, and vice versa. Obviously THAT situation didn't have anything to do with sex, but the intimacy there seems to pour out of the scriptures where it is discussed.

Anyway, I can't believe that the two of you were/are the only ones capable of and desirous of that kind of devoted, close, even sacred, love. Not to downplay the specialness of what the two of you shared, but there are billions of Catholics in the world. At least 10 per cent of the men are gay. Some of those millions must share the understanding of the balance of eros love and devotion to their faith that you do. Use your faith to believe that you will find one of them, if you conclude that that's what you want.

Lastly, it seems clear that when you leave seminary, things will be easier. Look on the internet for others like yourself. There've got to be groups and resources with which you can at least feel that you are not alone.

Good luck.

 

[brasilboy1]

In reply to cityboi, I ousted us (he and me) to the rector when I was in the throws of depression. When he found out that I had done this, he wouldn't even speak to me to give me a an opportunity to explain my actions to him. As far as revealing the relationship to the rector, I really had no choice in the matter. It is the one reason why I was not dismissed. I was not afraid of what being out meant; Patito was.


If Patito is not the one, I do have hope that there will be others. But the fact is that I still love him very much. Even after all this time.

Here is the beginings of a letter I wish to send to him:


To my beloved Patito,

Please forgive me for all the ways I have hurt you. In November, I could not see how it was possible that I hurt you. Now I see clearly. I betrayed you. I betrayed your trust. You asked me not to tell anyone, but I did. It doesn't matter how stressed out I was or how worried about you I was --- there can be no excuse, I should have told no one. But I did. Words cannot express the sorrow I feel for having betrayed you in this way. Yet I make this humble attempt to express what I feel. I am sorry. I still love you. I have always loved you. Not for one moment have I ever intended to hurt you, to hate you, to do anything but to love you. I will understand if you no longer want my love or if you have moved on. But I cannot go on another day with this love in my heart for you not knowing what could have been. I want to move on with my life, but I cannot until I know the truth. I want you as part of my life. I love you and cry for you still. etc...

 

[backpacker]

Once you leave school and to to work, will you be working for the church? If so, I guess there could be a risk if he became upset you contacted him. I think you were the fruit that tempted him too much and he is struggling with his own internal conflicts. He's avoiding you because he doesn't trust himself. I really doubt that you did anything wrong, unless there is something that you are not telling us. What do you mean by you betrayed him and didn't have a choice?

In life, you usually have to take some calculated risks to get the good stuff. Only you can evaluate the risks and decide if they are worth taking. You do need to realize something, an emotional relationship like you described is a gay relationship regardless of whether sex is involved or not. I always think it's sad when people let religion get in the way of their happiness. To me that's the complete opposite of what religion should be about. If I were in your shoes, I would probably give it one shot at contacting him. If he doesn't want to talk to you, I would decide that it's time to move on. You obviously have a need for a romantic relationship and you should pursue one with him or another guy. Life's too short; you need to live it, not sit on the sidelines.

 

[spencer]

Ugh. I say ugh for me, not for you.

I feel so sorry. Stuff like this hurts.

Stuff like this really hurts when it's from a big Catholic. Unfortunately, I have met a few Catholics and 2 former seminarians that do not practice what they preach. Not in the sense that they are gay, but in the sense they they are very Christian and holy but treat men they date like jerks.

It is really hurtfull, when you think you meet a fellow Catholic gay guy that you think you have a lot in common when you don't: the other is a jerk. It's so hypocritical it's not funny. And it sorta makes you feel like you're hurt by God too. (I know sounds crazy) That person spreads the word and yet you know what it's like to be unfairly treated by them.

Now that's probably not Patito at all. He's got stuff going on in his life where he's just not available. He probably feels deeply strongly for you and that makes it even harder for him to even hear from you.

Just please continue to stick to your compassionate, loving self. Don't turn into those guys I met.

sorry to hijack a little. good luck

 

[brasilboy1]

I have read the works of St. John of the Cross and Teresa de Avila, I enjoy them a lot and try to live them too, but sometimes detachment is a hard thing to live.

Honestly, Spence, I don't know what is going on in Pato's mind. All I know is that our breakup doesn't make sense to me, and I want to know his true reasoning.

I am not a bitter person and always try to act out of compassion.

J.

 

[spencer]

maybe he wants to enter back into the faith someday. its sucks when you don't get closure. you would not do the same to him, if you wanted to break things off you would tell him and you would do what's right about it. It shows that his character isn't as perfect as you thought. Find comfort in something, what he did was mean.

 

[Seasoned]

Run as fast as you can from that seminary. In it you are on your way to furtive, guilt-ridden experiences like the one you talk about. No one asks to be gay, but this is what god has chosen for you. Our Church errs in what it preaches on the subject.

 

[spencer]

Run as fast as you can from that seminary. In it you are on your way to furtive, guilt-ridden experiences like the one you talk about. No one asks to be gay, but this is what god has chosen for you. Our Church errs in what it preaches on the subject.

Actually the Catholic church and gays are in agreement on not choosing to be gay. It's what you choose to do with it that they are not agreement in. But I know what you mean.