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It's not the guns.

mikey3000 said:
On TV, I heard a lady at the El Paso scene say, "I'll give up any right I have just to stop the killing."
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The lady makes a point. If you or I were at a concert, in a house of worship, walking down the street .... and we got shot at....not even hit.....if we saw people's bodies exploding from the impact of military grade weapons.....and picked ourselves up off the ground shaking and traumatized by a near death experience. If that were to happen, I think it would provide a fresh perspective on her comment and our Rights. We have the Bill of Rights. But the Constitution and common sense presupposes a Right to Live. When these tragedies are reported in the media they are abstractions. tsk tsk....but when it becomes REAL it's entirely different. The authors of the Second Amendment could not have conceived of our situation. To hold the second amendment as guaranteeing every man woman and child in the country to have access to AK-47's is a perversion of intent. Our gutless politicians and the Courts keep hiding behind the Second Amendment. We need a 28th Amendment to clearly limit the scope of the Second Amendment.
 
TX-Beau said:
I think we need to consider a law regulating how many guns you can own.

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps we can also tighten regulations on the ammunition as well.
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Some years ago my own 1st and 2nd cousin (One man...yeah they were like that there) got into a domestic thing with his wife and the whole thing escalated to a stand off with the State Police. My own flesh and bloods....had a fuck load of steel tipped ammo on hand. Like WTF? Totally agree. This grade of ammo is only meant to kill in war time.
 
Sausy said:
Trump condemns the mass shooting as a cowardly act... but god dammit, these people take their cue from the nasty inhumanity and vile bigotry against undocumented immigrants and especially refugees that emanates from Trump's rotted soul. No sir, you fake President, you don't get off so easy when you exacerbate the hate and tension all the time.. go to hell you fucking disgrace, your words of comfort are crocodile tears and lies only meant to give you cover. But it emanates from how you present yourself.... obviously the ultimate responsibility lies with the killer and things can happen on any President's watch that is heartbreaking and awful in its senselessness and violence. But these aren't normal times, they're Trump times and institutions and norms are out the window with this horrible bastard. And when he dares to condemn an act of brutal terror on the border in an immigrant community, when demagoguery on immigration is his bread and butter... this is partially on him, because in normal times we expect our presidents to try to do the humane thing and not double down on bigotry and prejudice. God, when are we going to wake up from these awful Trump times?

The gun of choice of course is the most impersonal, ruthless, efficient killing machine outside of out and out automatic rifles... the bullets are designed to wreck arteries and organs as well... they are designed for maximum carnage in minimum time. WE need a fucking time out on assault weapons, god dammit and if I hear anyone on the right offering thoughts and prayers I'll fucking scream... it's pointless, you idiots... and you're the ones who also bleat "God helps those who helps themselves". So what the fuck is it?????? Why the hell are guns so sacrosanct to the conservatives? Because we should have all the weapons the military has access... is that your reading of the Second Amendment? Because if so, we've got a major problem.
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If the mass killings were being perpetrated by jihadists there would be a national crisis and response such that we haven't seen since 9/11, or maybe ever. Anybody that even looked vaguely middle eastern would be yanked off the streets, rounded up, and God knows what. Since it tends to be just some good ol' boy White Supremacists inspired by the King of Israel, well....As our His Highness so aptly observed in Charlottesville, there were good people on both sides. Just fuck us, hand us over to Putin, cash out with your family and get it over with, Dumpy. Trying to drag this out over 8 miserable years is just prolonging the agony.


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Dystopian said:
Some years ago my own 1st and 2nd cousin (One man...yeah they were like that there) got into a domestic thing with his wife and the whole thing escalated to a stand off with the State Police. My own flesh and bloods....had a fuck load of steel tipped ammo on hand. Like WTF? Totally agree. This grade of ammo is only meant to kill in war time.
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I wonder what would happen if the government passed a law that regulated the ammo, say like charging $100 or $500 or even $1,000 per bullet?
 
gsdx said:
I wonder what would happen if the government passed a law that regulated the ammo, say like charging $100 or $500 or even $1,000 per bullet?
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Something that medicine has ignored for a while is that the projectile in the bullets used in these shootings are made of lead. Traditionally, we've only removed large fragments of the bullets after shootings; shrapnel and fragments that are inconveniently located have been left in place.

The bullets used in assault weapons are prone to fragmentation and because there are so many bullets fired into the victims, we're now seeing survivors with lead poisoning.

There's an opportunity here to change ammunition and its availability, although there's been so much stockpiling of ammo since 2008 (when Obama was elected and the gun industry told gun owners that Obama was going to take away their ammo), that it's going to be a long time before any change in ammo sales would have any effect.

They Survived Mass Shootings. Years Later, The Bullets Are Still Trying to Kill Them [Time]
 
gsdx said:
^ One way or another, even the survivors become victims.
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Sadly, yes. When they thought they "survived", they find out that it's not over - they're being slowly poisoned.
 
^ Do you know if those 'victims' are added to the tally when they die as a direct result of the incident no matter how long after? To me, it's the same as a victim being in a coma in hospital and dying weeks or even months after the incident which put them there.
 
gsdx said:
^ Do you know if those 'victims' are added to the tally when they die as a direct result of the incident no matter how long after? To me, it's the same as a victim being in a coma in hospital and dying weeks or even months after the incident which put them there.
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Lead poisoning is slow. And the connection between the symptoms that shooting survivors have been complaining of and the blood lead levels has only recently been appreciated.

What has been more pervasive is addiction and suicide. Earlier this year, Austin Eubanks and Sydney Aiello killed themselves. Austin was a Columbine survivor who developed an opiate addiction after the shooting, got into recovery and then relapsed; he died of a heroin overdose in May of this year.
 
So, the GOP has come up with a remedy to the mass shootings. They're introducing legislation which will expedite the death penalty for shooters.

You can't get more expedited than the shooters being shot dead by the police or shooting themselves before someone else does.

Stupid legislation that won't solve the problem and won't prevent future massacres.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/white-house-propose-expedited-death-155335610.html
 
gsdx said:
So, the GOP has come up with a remedy to the mass shootings. They're introducing legislation which will expedite the death penalty for shooters.

You can't get more expedited than the shooters being shot dead by the police or shooting themselves before someone else does.

Stupid legislation that won't solve the problem and won't prevent future massacres.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/white-house-propose-expedited-death-155335610.html
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I strongly suspect that most mass shooters go into their actions expecting to die by their own hand or the cops. Those that don't usually have a political motivation and will love the extra attention that a capital trial and execution will get them, envisioning themselves as martyrs.
 
^ Indeed. Not many are still alive to go through a trial. Like I said, "stupid legislation" which will do nothing other than make it appear that the Republicans are doing something.
 
It's not the guns. It's your state legislature. It's your governor. It's your House of Representatives. It your Senate. It's Moscow Mitch. It's Dumpy. It's Cindy McCain who won't live without guns. How can we miss the irony in that? Remember Gabby Giffords, Cindy? It is corporate greed. It's money and money and more money, and people who don't listen. Background checks. Like when you get a driver's license. DMV and Guns. Show up, get interviewed, pass a test, pay a gun registration fee. Criminal record? Forget it. We don't get to register tanks and other military grade vehicles to drive to work. So why do we walk into some pawn shop and buy an AK-47? Why do we buy steel tipped bullets? This is not Rocket Science. No one is depriving anyone of their sacred right to bear arms. But the way we are going about it is literally killing us. Lots of us. 24/7. Vote. Vote for somebody who places your life above getting campaign contributions. The life you save may be your own.
 
It's not the guns, it's the people who have the guns, and so it's high time to take their guns away.
 
^ They keep ramming that 2nd Amendment down our throats. Yes, there is a right to bear arms, but that doesn't mean that you must and there is a right to sell those arms, but that doesn't mean that you must.
 
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