On-Topic Jill Stein just called for a recount in 3 states Trump barely won

[Kulindahr]

Stein and Johnson were both joke candidates and all the votes for them helped ensure that the US will have a judicial system that will be brutally conservative for the next 20 years.



Well done.


It wasn't like we didn't warn that this would be the outcome.

^Well noted....there have been moments on this forum when I have failed to comprehend the posts, and actions of members who voted knowing that their choice..i.e. Stein, or Johnson would favour victory for Trump...despite recognising that Trump's choice for The Supreme Court would be reactionary, and contrary to the welfare of the gay person.

Tactical voting to avoid the election of a president who represents a mindset hostile to the liberal, and progressive person is always a wise choice.

You guys are harping on this without even checking the facts. If you take all the votes in Oregon for anyone but Clinton and give them all to Trump, Clinton still won. There was no way Trump was ever going to carry this state.

 

[Kulindahr]

You continued to attempt to undermine the only viable candidate that would protect your interests.
Basically you've cut your nose off to spite your face because your nominee wasn't elected.

Now you're blaming everyone else without recognising you were undermining the candidate whose policies you backed.

There were no candidates who would protect my interests, and that's true of a lot of people.

Ironically, it's true of a lot of people who voted for Trump -- they despised him, knew he wouldn't do anything for them, yet voted for him anyway. And that says a lot about just how bad Clinton looked to many people.

And when there isn't a candidate who will support your interests, the best thing to do is to vote for a third party candidate. If all Americans would do that, and we got an electoral college winner who got little more than a third of the popular vote, maybe enough people would get upset enough to change the system. But as long as the loud theme is to vote for one of the duopoly candidates, nothing is going to change.

 

[Kulindahr]

I think you and others need to re-examine your priorities and align them to what the priorities of the electorate are. Because you and others got the rudest wakeup call of all this election that you and your fellow Clinton supporters were too busy living in your own bubbles.

Scratch "bubbles" and replace it with "arrogance", and I think you've got it.

Clinton has no one but herself to blame.

 

[Kulindahr]

Demanding saintliness from Clinton and choosing to believe all accusations thrown by her and Sanders' political rivals isn't particularly savvy.

Demanding that Clinton effectively step aside for your nominee isn't exactly democratic. Sanders is great, but that's a tea party move.

Not really -- no Tea Party candidate would have had a chance; there isn't one with enough intelligence or charisma to have won, while Bernie arguably could have.

 

[rareboy]

Actually, no, he didn't:

http://www.politico.com/2016-election/results/map/president/oregon/

Neither did all the people who wrote in Bernie. Clinton beat Trump in Oregon by more than the total of all other votes combined -- Johnson, Stein, & other.

You missed my other post.

It isn't about an individual vote.

It was about a wave of hysterical Hillary hate that was ignited by the GOP and fanned by the flames of the utterly false stories on social media.

It was about demonizing the only person who literally could have prevented Trump from a coup and using every opportunity to disseminate falsehoods and hate.

It wasn't about Oregon.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ I think we're all unanimous in this opinion. But I suspect that the motivation is 'anyone but a woman' for president.

I doubt it. I heard too many people who wanted a woman, but refused to start with one like Clinton.

I'd be willing to bet that if it had been Elizabeth Warren instead of Clinton, she would have carried this state at least by an additional five or more percentage points.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ I suspect you are not alone in this feeling.

Until the Green Party learns that you have to do this from the ground up and not the top down...and actually begin to demonstrate that they have a grasp on many of the real issues that they would have to deal with in the Executive Branch...they will remain an irrelevant protest party.

Pretty much like the Libertarians.

But as long as people support the duopoly, they don't have the chance -- the system is rigged against them. Too many people believe the lie that a vote for anyone without a D or R by their name on the ballot is a wasted vote.

The truly wasted vote is one for someone you despise.

 

[Kulindahr]

You all can continue having your own heads up your asses and keep figuring out why you lose elections. You didn't just lose the Presidency, you lost the entire Government to the Republicans. You were decimated. And it is because your opinions don't reflect that of the electorate. That is not up for discussion. That is a fact. You are the ones not in touch.

So continue doing what you blame the Right of doing and being engulfed listening to FOX News. You only wanting to hear the beat of your own drum is not doing you any good, and is further pushing Liberal, anti-Establishment supporters to the Right.

I doubt they're driving many to the right; it's more likely they're driving more people to just not vote. I know a guy who's hardly voted for anyone but a Democrat in his life, but he was so disgusted with Clinton he didn't even mark the ballot for president.

Democrats with good sense at this point ought to start fighting for a multi-party system. Since something like a third of Trump's votes came from people who found his campaign disgusting and don't think he'll benefit them, ending that kind of voting has got to be good for the country.

 

[Kulindahr]

As a Canadian, my head is very free of my ass and very clear, but I simply cannot understand how someone who gets more votes in an election loses to the guy who fewer people voted for. And it's happened before. It doesn't seem very democratic when the loser wins the race.

That's like 7 people on the jury voting guilty and 5 voting not guilty, and the serial killer gets a walk. I simply do not understand it.

Obviously you don't understand, or you wouldn't compare it to a jury. The truth is that not one citizen in the U.S. voted for president, because citizens don't get to vote for president. Anyone who reads the fine print knows that (even though they've taken the fine print off the ballot or even the voter's manual). The only people who vote for president are the electors of the electoral college, and they vote as their states tell them to, unless their conscience tells them otherwise. Why? Because the people do not elect the president, the states do. It's a system that protects the small states against the otherwise overwhelming power of populous states.

The actual election for the president of the U.S. hasn't taken place yet, so no one has gotten "more votes in an election".

 

[rareboy]

But as long as people support the duopoly, they don't have the chance -- the system is rigged against them. Too many people believe the lie that a vote for anyone without a D or R by their name on the ballot is a wasted vote.

The truly wasted vote is one for someone you despise.

The United States is now structurally incapable of moving beyond a two party system.

Gerrymandering made sure of that.

We'd all love to see the US having to patch together coalitions like parliamentary democracies have to...but even the dust will have turned to dust before this happens.

 

[Kulindahr]

Oh, I saw a mention in the news today that Jill Stein had managed to raise enough money to have vote recounts in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. I'm not entirely sure I trust her motives, though. Wasn't she saying, during the campaign, that Hillary was WORSE than Trump?

Kind of boggles my mind at what is truly going on.

My guess is she suspects tampering that shifted third-party votes to a duopoly candidate and doesn't care who stole them.

 

[Kulindahr]

I don't see recounts shifting the total electoral college outcome.

So I'm not getting the point of this at all.

Looking for honesty in elections, maybe?

 

[Kulindahr]

You missed my other post.

It isn't about an individual vote.

It was about a wave of hysterical Hillary hate that was ignited by the GOP and fanned by the flames of the utterly false stories on social media.

It was about demonizing the only person who literally could have prevented Trump from a coup and using every opportunity to disseminate falsehoods and hate.

It wasn't about Oregon.

But you made it about an individual. That individual lives in Oregon, so you made it about Oregon.

If it isn't about Oregon, then you owe the individual an apology.

 

[Kulindahr]

The United States is now structurally incapable of moving beyond a two party system.

Gerrymandering made sure of that.

We'd all love to see the US having to patch together coalitions like parliamentary democracies have to...but even the dust will have turned to dust before this happens.

Changing to a multi-party system would end gerrymandering because there wouldn't be congressional districts any longer.

 

[Kabluey]

But as long as people support the duopoly, they don't have the chance -- the system is rigged against them. Too many people believe the lie that a vote for anyone without a D or R by their name on the ballot is a wasted vote.

The truly wasted vote is one for someone you despise.

In a proportional voting system, you can vote for minor parties and they can enter parliament.
In a first past and post system, those parties can only get in through safe seats.
Useful for forums like the congress.

For leadership votes in either system, if there are multiple candidates from the same side of the political divide, they will divide their voters. Think mayoral elections: if a single conservative candidate faces three liberal candidates of various flavours, the liberal vote is split and the conservative candidate can win with as little as 26% of the vote.

Presidential elections with multiple candidates would be no different, even in a proportional system.

 

[MystikWizard]

[Quoted Post: Removed]

Just stop it. You can continue to deny, deny, deny all you want, but the rest of the public is not buying it. Only people evidently denying it is on here, most logically because you were actually called out on it and are embarrassed it was brought up and you were charged with doing so.

So many articles have been written on this very topic so you are only embarrassing yourself pretending this isn't the issue for the Gay community. Nobody is buying your denials.

GAY MEN GO GAGA FOR HILLARY
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles...-and-how-trump-is-making-a-play-to-poach-them

GAY MEN FEEL HILLARY CLINTON'S PAIN- BUT DOES SHE FEEL OURS?
https://www.thenation.com/article/gay-men-feel-hillary-clintons-pain-but-does-she-feel-ours/

HILLARY CLINTON'S RAINBOW CONNECTION-
https://www.queerty.com/hillarys-ra...ave-an-edge-when-it-comes-to-gay-men-20160429

WHAT EXPLAINS THE LGBT DIVIDE BETWEEN HILLARY CLINTON AND BERNIE SANDERS

Quote from article: "Many Gay people can see themselves in her".

https://mic.com/articles/133143/wha...hillary-clinton-and-bernie-sanders#.M7XRFer51

So who are the immature ones now ... voting for candidates because of their genitalia?

 

[Kabluey]

^ It's like you think gay men can't be misogynists.

 

[eastofeden]

^ It's like you think gay men can't be misogynists.

Maybe he doesn't have any mirrors in the house? ....

 

[zombiekiller]

Oh, I saw a mention in the news today that Jill Stein had managed to raise enough money to have vote recounts in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania. I'm not entirely sure I trust her motives, though. Wasn't she saying, during the campaign, that Hillary was WORSE than Trump?

Kind of boggles my mind at what is truly going on.

That mother fucking bitch did her best during the campaign months to ensure a Trump in. She now wants more attention because she's an attention whore.

Fuck that bitch and her green party fanatics. They have been working very hard to give elections to conservatives. Fuck that bitch Jill Stein. This is the 2nd time the green party gave the election to the Republicans. Fuck the green party.

 

[opinterph]

You can continue to deny, deny, deny all you want, but the rest of the public is not buying it.

I find your argument to be more antagonistic than it is reliable. [Link]