Justice At Last, Bill Cosby Found Guilty.

[fabulouslyghetto]

feel bad for the old guy

PS: I don't. I love to see these self-proclaimed moral champions fall from grace since it doesn't always happen in such a fanastic way. Bill had the nerve to tell young black men to pull their pants up. Bill why couldn't YOU keep YOUR pants up?

I must say I got a sweet sense of justice seeing his mugshot, I was gonna post it but some guys are already having an out-of-body sensational experience just at the thought of him in jail and I don't wanna contribute to that grossness. People who 5 months ago wrote off metoo as a witch hunt and attention grab from money/fame hungry women are taking this personally as if they're related to one of the victims and suddenly are cheering and marching at the front of the movement for reasons so obvious they're not worth identifying [again]. I'm still wondering when Matt Lauer, Harvey Weinstein, Charlie Sheen, Bill O'Reilly, Les Moonves and Donald Trump are going to set foot in a court room for their crimes.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

The Kavanaugh nomination is excellent proof. Victimhood, or alleged victimhood, has been elevated to a virtue.

I don't think that's as true as the anti-victim brigade believes it to be.

In a radio interview yesterday, a woman said it is not the responsibility of Blase-Ford to prove guilt, but the requirement of the nominee to prove innocence. How very perverse from the stated rule of law in our system.

And yet that's the culture entrenched in our justice system, moreso for some than others.

Regardless of the administration's faults and vices, the man is NOT a sexual predator, not an abusive colleague or employer, and certainly not a womanizer.

You don't KNOW that he isn't. Insisting, with all CAPS no less, begs the question why you're capping so hard for his innocence. Do you know the guy? Were you college roomies? The image being painted of him is hardly one of a man whose character stands tall as a sycamore and probably wouldn't be the safe gamble you think it is.

The suggestion that somehow TWO people, man and woman, get drunk at a party and that some antics did or did not happen that did not result in sex is a scandal is idiotic.

Investigating drunken rape or attempted rape is not idiotic. You must remember times have changed since you were brought up in that culture of "Fifty no's and yes equals a yes."

The SAME people raving about this would be the EXACT SAME people who would be blathering that teens are not adults, or that alcohol is a disease, but not when it suits political ends. Apparently Darth Giuliani is the only one who holds that "truth is not always truth." Rank hypocrites and rank hysterics.

Once again you bring in something that has NOTHING to do with the topic, to argue down points that nobody is even making. Usually it entertains me when you do this but the subject matter is pretty heavy so it just feels out of place and awkward. But I get it, my dad is the same way too, his default response to ANYTHING in the news these days is how it wouldn't have been a big deal when he was a kid, which his generation fails to realize isn't always a good thing.

And to be clear, I do not support Kavanaugh's nomination

Close enough, you support him as a man and despite, I'm assuming, having never met him you're boldly and brashly defending his innocence.

but the chances to block it on merit failed, so now we are in the next phase, desperation and shame.

Correct. And desperation and shame need to continue to be piled on to politicians accused of sex crimes in the same way they're being bandied about. In. This. Very. Thread. hypocrisy indeed.

 

[peeonme]

The Kavanaugh nomination is excellent proof. Victimhood, or alleged victimhood, has been elevated to a virtue. In a radio interview yesterday, a woman said it is not the responsibility of Blase-Ford to prove guilt, but the requirement of the nominee to prove innocence. How very perverse from the stated rule of law in our system.

Regardless of the administration's faults and vices, the man is NOT a sexual predator, not an abusive colleague or employer, and certainly not a womanizer. The suggestion that somehow TWO people, man and woman, get drunk at a party and that some antics did or did not happen that did not result in sex is a scandal is idiotic.

The SAME people raving about this would be the EXACT SAME people who would be blathering that teens are not adults, or that alcohol is a disease, but not when it suits political ends. Apparently Darth Giuliani is the only one who holds that "truth is not always truth." Rank hypocrites and rank hysterics.

And to be clear, I do not support Kavanaugh's nomination, but the chances to block it on merit failed, so now we are in the next phase, desperation and shame.

It has become a classic move to throw shit and hope that it will stick to the target. It will be interesting to see if this smear campaign will rally the right in the mid terms.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

It has become a classic move to throw shit and hope that it will stick to the target. It will be interesting to see if this smear campaign will rally the right in the mid terms.

Not to derail a topic about one predator with another, but a second accuser has come forward about Kavanaugh. The floogates are open, the "innocent" act is only going to work on the old-school misogynists who think rape charges are a weapon against men and "Come on, does "no" reeeeeally mean "no?" and die-hard MAGA hat troop who, if they're honest, don't care even if the accusations are true they just wanna make sure we seat someone who is going to outlaw abortion [I know that's now how it works, I'm talking from their POV]

 

[gsdx]

We must remember that, for a very long time in our past, rapes and sexual assaults went unreported because women had given up on the judicial system. Instead of finding justice, they found themselves being accused, humiliated, and ridiculed. It was THEIR lives which were destroyed instead of the rapists and assaulter who walked out of court as free men.

It's better now, but even in this forum (and CE&P) some still see the women as the instigators who are looking for their '15 minutes of fame' because they're finally coming out to speak up about events which happened decades ago. Well, those 'decades ago', they didn't have a voice.

Now they do. We just have to start listening to them and believing them.

 

[sixthson]

Now they do. We just have to start listening to them and believing them.

Only if they are telling the truth. Right?

 

[mikey3000]

Speaking of shame, shame that this campaign to prevent him from purchasing NBC worked. It's funny how the narrative can change from person to person.

*accusations against Kavanaugh*

"Conspiray." "They're just trying to derail his career." "Libruls....."

*accusations against Cosby*

"Bury him under the jail!"

Just because he's black, eh? Never mind that he was reported to police, arrested, tried in a court of law and found guilty of rape, its all because he a black man. He's totally innocent.

 

[gsdx]

^ That is not for me to decide. That is up to the courts. I simply claimed that, for decades, it was assumed by the defence attorneys and judges that they WERE lying. That's why they stopped talking.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Only if they are telling the truth. Right?

That seems to be predicated on treat each and every time, even when one accuser have multiple victims, as if they're a lying whore who was asking for it unless she can prove beyond all conceivable doubt that it happened the way she said it did. We give men we don't even know the benefit of the doubt [hence how so many brazen serial rapists have careers assaulting women] and treat women like criminals who have to prove the legitimacy of their claim.

I'm reminded of an episode of cold cases where a tweenage girl was abducted on her way to/from church and assaulted, once in a van and again in a hotel room. After the attack she went to the police station and told what happened, a very unenthusiastic, casual way. Her demeanor led the officers to believe she was lying until she started giving details of the inside of the man's vehicle that she couldn't possibly have known as he was a stranger. Turns out of course she was telling the truth but she had to, in the midst of a violent assault from a grown man, maintain the wherewithal to mentally record notes about her surroundings. She was a brave girl and the sad truth is her assailant could've gotten away with it had she not been so cognizant.

Our culture of defending predators and male supremacy, which culminated in two "suspected" predators sitting as POTUS and potentially SCOTUS without the American masses so much as demanding an investigation, allows these monsters to roam the planet collecting victims like rain water while we bully, demean and scrutinize the victims to the nth degree.

The reasons are obvious-- misogyny, as for gay men specifically many are hateful towards women so skepticism and even annoynce with "metoo" is unsurprising to say the least, and the west if hellbent on maintaining these power structures that allow us to prey on one another to little/no consequence. I for one am glad this dialogue is happening because, just like any victim of those that sit atop the the social totem pole, it's long overdue for their voices to be heard, no matter how much some asshole rolls his eyes at those brave enough to come forward.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Just because he's black, eh? Never mind that he was reported to police, arrested, tried in a court of law and found guilty of rape, its all because he a black man. He's totally innocent. ��

The contempt surrounding America's use of "black" is so palpable you could cut it with a knife. Anyway, him being black is the reason the narrative surrounding sex crime accusations went from "These lying wh***s" and "They just want money" and "Why did they wait so long?" to "Justice for the victim" and "Lock the bastard up and hang him by his sack." The fluctuation in response is even seen here on JUB as its infinitely more obvious than it is assumed to be.

The same people throwing a fiesta in this thread are like "Woah wait a minute now, innocent until proven guilty" when talking about other men accused of similar crimes. I don't know why I find myself constantly having to explain to people how bias works as if the concept is foreign or has never been practiced in America. It happens all the time every day and just because this is a serious topic with real victims that deserve respect doesn't mean that people's prejudgments won't creep up from the subconscious and poke their ugly little heads out of the sand. Bootz.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

We just have to start listening to them and believing them.

This rings so try for so many vic-- oh wait that's a dirty word that nobody deserves to use... people who have had terrible things done to them by somebody else.

 

[peeonme]

^ That is not for me to decide. That is up to the courts. I simply claimed that, for decades, it was assumed by the defence attorneys and judges that they WERE lying. That's why they stopped talking.

There was a time when the alleged victims actions were taken in to account. Such questions as , 'what were you wearing?' were asked of the vic. to establish that her demeanor was in fact a way of 'asking for it'.
Now the pendulum has swung in the other direction, a man accused of a sexual crime has to prove that he is innocent. The precept of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in court has been thrown under the bus. Men today facing sex charges are where the black man was at in the south in the 50's.

 

[USEDCAR]

I used to be team Bill Cosby is innocent until i heard Bill stand up act talking about "Spanish fly" and it was about how he drugged girls. I don't think anyone that has been sexuality assaulted should wait 30+ years to report it. Something like this should be reported asap.


This whole sexual harassment thing is scary one false accusation you could lose everything.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Now the pendulum has swung in the other direction, a man accused of a sexual crime has to prove that he is innocent. The precept of innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in court has been thrown under the bus. Men today facing sex charges are where the black man was at in the south in the 50's.

People keep saying this, that men are presumed guilty until innocent, who has that happened to yet that turned out to actually be innocent? Today's "it's just whispers" are tomorrow's "17 accusers come forward...." so unless I'm missing someone, thus far the only men who have been caught in the snares of metoo are guilty ones. It still seems that, Cosby aside, the bias leans in favor of the accused as accusers are met, right out the gate, with the scrutiny you mentioned before but seem to think has vanished into thin air.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I used to be team Bill Cosby is innocent until i heard Bill stand up act talking about "Spanish fly" and it was about how he drugged girls. I don't think anyone that has been sexuality assaulted should wait 30+ years to report it. Something like this should be reported asap.


This whole sexual harassment thing is scary one false accusation you could lose everything.

That's true of any crime, lots of people are pegged for crimes they haven't committed or their guilt hasn't been satisfied beyond questionable doubt. But they're mostly poor and of color so nobody really cares if they lose their job, custody of their kids, become homeless, life spirals out of control and they commit suicide et cetera. That's what happens when profiteers are allowed to cash in on filling jail and prison beds.

As far as the fear of some innocent guy being implicated in a sex crime he didn't commit, has that happened yet in the wake of metoo? I asked someone else but I'll ask you, have any innocent guys been collateral damage in this whole time's up thing? I invite someone to correct me if I'm wrong but from where I'm standing the net looks likes it's full of legit creeps, pervs, weirdos and abusers. Methinks people are averse to because it cross-sections and threatens power dynamics that have never been questioned in the US.

 

[sixthson]

^ That is not for me to decide. That is up to the courts. I simply claimed that, for decades, it was assumed by the defence attorneys and judges that they WERE lying. That's why they stopped talking.

If you had stopped at saying we need to listen to them, I would have agreed, but you didn't. You said we have to believe them. I know you know there is a difference. To believe them we need some evidence. Most people here would agree that women have been disbelieved and accused of deserving it for decades and even up to today, but that does not mean in the year 2018 that we must believe every accusation as if we can somehow atone for the sins of the past by doing so.

 

[NotHardUp1]

^ That is not for me to decide. That is up to the courts. I simply claimed that, for decades, it was assumed by the defence attorneys and judges that they WERE lying. That's why they stopped talking.

Well, in fairness, for many decades women COULD use a lie in court and it worked to smear the accused. It was relatively recently that "sexual assault" became defined distinctly from rape. Any suggestion that there has NOT been abusive use of the accusation is intentionally looking the other way.

The fact that unscrupulous women have used the false accusation as a weapon DOES NOT subtract from the many women who actually have been raped, but it does stand on the record for the world to see that it has happened, even if in a minority of cases.

It is also worth noting that case in the 80s where the day care workers in California were women and men convicted falsely of sexually abusing the children. It was later PROVEN that the interviewers of the children actually (unintentionally) planted memories in the children by leading them to "confess" they had been inappropriately touched when they had not. The same hysteria about pedophiles can be present for other social crimes, including sexual assault. (To wit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial)

AND, the left here is plainly using the term "sexual assault" as the equal of rape in the media, and the two are by no means equal. A women simply being touched constitutes sexual assault which is WAY different that being raped. The courts see it so.

But, the media doesn't, and doesn't have a legal standard to meet in bantering around the terms. It's guilt by innuendo.

If there is proof, prove it, but he said she said has never been legal proof in the modern era.

I hate the Supreme Court going to the right every bit as much as any other centrist American, but it is a reflection of the populace, so my opinion is being outweighed.

 

[unloadonme]

It seems Cosby may not be guilty after all.

Bill Cosby freed after top court overturns sexual assault conviction (BBC News; June 30, 2021)

 

[ClubLevelVegan]

It being overturned does not mean he wasn't guilty of the things he was accused of.

 

[unloadonme]

It being overturned does not mean he wasn't guilty of the things he was accused of.

I realise that of course, but innocent until proven guilty and all that.