Let's Dance With Snakes!

[MidnightPrism]

The dangers of letting the religious right congregate in church sessions.

 

[Kulindahr]

Those guys aren't "religious right", they're religious right-off-the-map!

 

[smelter]

In the Biblical story of Adam and [strike]Steve[/strike] Eve, isn't the snake supposed to be a form taken by the devil? If true, this makes these people devil worshippers.

 

[Kulindahr]

It's from one of the fragmentary endings for the Gospel of Mark, a verse that says they shall pick up serpents and not be harmed. Somehow they got the idea that meant they should actually go find snakes to pick up.....

I suppose if it had said they shall stumble but not fall, they'd go around stumbling....

 

[GL]

amen!

hallelujah!

someone pass the anti-venom.

 

[White Eagle]

What.......in.......the.......hell......was.......THAT?!

 

[Kulindahr]

15 He said to them, "Go into the whole world and proclaim the gospel to every creature.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.
17 These signs will accompany those who believe: in my name they will drive out demons, they will speak new languages.
18 They will pick up serpents (with their hands), and if they drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them. They will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover."
19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up into heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God.
20 But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the word through accompanying signs.)

Well they (the Christians) took verses 15 and 16 literally and a lot of them took verse 17 literally and nearly all of them took verse 19 literally and most have taken verse 20 literally so they're not really doing anything wrong or out or place by taking verse 18 literally since there's nothing that actually says take these verses literally but don't take that one verse in the middle literally.

Maybe they shouldn't take the rest of the verses literally either?

Using snakes in worship isn't taking the verse literally; it's taking it psychotically. In the Greek it's a conditional statement, NOT a command. In fact, taking the rest of that Gospel literally results in condemnation of what they're doing -- it says not to "test" the Lord, but that's exactly what they're doing.

 

[Kurn]

Ah that's nothin' much.
Remember Steve Irwin?

 

[lancelva]

Jesus often speaks metaphorically in the Bible (i.e. parables). I see no reason why the verses quoted above (see below for KJV) cannot be taken metaphorically.

Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

16:16
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

16:17
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Serpents can imply any evil (after all, Satan appeared to Adam and Eve in the form of a serpent--as noted in a previous post), so Jesus could be saying that those who proclaim his word will not be conquered by evil or wrong, nor shall they be influenced by it (not hurt by a "deadly thing") because God will protect them.

God punishes the serpent after it tempts Adam and Eve, making it issue to use it as a symbol of evil (Genesis 3:14-15):

And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou [art] cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Also, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights, Satan tried to entice Jesus to perform certain miracles, to which Jesus responded by noting that God shouldn't be put to the "test:"

Matthew 4:3
And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

4:5
Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,

4:6
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

4:7
Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

 

[Spiff]

I have read news stories in the past where snakes have bitten and killed people in similar types of churches. I even remember one story where someone refused medical treatment after the bite and died, because "it was God's will."

 

[smelter]

^ I don't see why Jesus would need to be speaking metaphorically there. Is 'serpents' the only thing metaphorical in all that? Because, the apostles allegedly did miracles. This has nothing to do with tempting "God"---Jesus said that those are the signs you will see to know those that truly believe, more or less the evidence for the apostles on their difficult attempts to convert the people. Again, those verses were followed with:

19 So then the Lord Jesus, after he spoke to them, was taken up into heaven and took his seat at the right hand of God.
20 But they went forth and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the word through accompanying signs.

"They" in 19 and 20 are the apostles, right?

Here is a photo of a modern day apostle. Perhaps he is shitting out a miracle and we unbelievers just don't understand! Miracles appear very painful to deliver, Praise the Lord.

 

[lancelva]

"They" in 19 and 20 are the apostles, right?

Yes--and the apostles were given the ability to heal the sick and things of that nature, but that power was only given to that generation of apostles.

 

[smelter]

^ Heh, I'm curious how someone was able to snag that picture? What circumstance led to him making such a face?

He makes that face every time he prays on his 700 club. Its obvious you've never seen his show ..... frankly, I'm saddened by that!

If I have to start a prayer circle for you, I'll do it! All you have to do is ask.

 

[Kulindahr]

Well it's not out of character of the bible god then is it?

He tells them they can do something and then condemns them for it.

Of course taking the verses before and after isn't a psychotic thing - pick 'n' mix religion eh!

It's totally out of character of the God of the Bible, who expects His people to THINK (e.g. "Come now, let's reason together....") -- something these people are particularly short on.
But their affliction is common; note the folks in Corinth who thought that glossalalia ("speaking in tongues") was so kool that they decided it was The Big Thing in being a Christian, an attitude that had to be stomped on by the Apostle Paul. Majoring in minors, especially seizing on something visible and impressive, isn't unique to religion, though; it's behind "My country, right or wrong!" and "Love it or leave it!" and strict adherence to party line, in politics, just for starters.

 

[Kulindahr]

Jesus often speaks metaphorically in the Bible (i.e. parables). I see no reason why the verses quoted above (see below for KJV) cannot be taken metaphorically.



Serpents can imply any evil (after all, Satan appeared to Adam and Eve in the form of a serpent--as noted in a previous post), so Jesus could be saying that those who proclaim his word will not be conquered by evil or wrong, nor shall they be influenced by it (not hurt by a "deadly thing") because God will protect them.

God punishes the serpent after it tempts Adam and Eve, making it issue to use it as a symbol of evil (Genesis 3:14-15):



Also, when Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness for 40 days and 40 nights, Satan tried to entice Jesus to perform certain miracles, to which Jesus responded by noting that God shouldn't be put to the "test:"

Lance, have you by chance been reading from St. Augustine?

 

[Kulindahr]

I have read news stories in the past where snakes have bitten and killed people in similar types of churches. I even remember one story where someone refused medical treatment after the bite and died, because "it was God's will."

The trouble here -- and what makes this a matter of "testing God" -- is that this isn't a promise that if you go out and risk the bite of snakes you'll be okay, or even that every Christian who gets bitten will be okay. It's a general statement, indicating things that will occur among Christians, not a promise that it will be so for all.
What these bozos who refuse medical treatment in such situations ignore is that all knowledge comes from God, and all things good are to be received from Him. Medical knowledge for dealing with snakebites thus comes from God, and since it is clearly a good thing, is to be received. Refusing it, then, is a bit arrogant, to say the least.

 

[Kulindahr]

^ Heh, I'm curious how someone was able to snag that picture? What circumstance led to him making such a face?

Maybe he was trying to cast the demons out of Congress?



BTW, IMHO "The 700 Club" is shyster charlatan hucksterism on a grand scale. Were I not a Christian, it certainly would not make me want to be one, and is a severe embarrassment. These are people who, like the snake-teasers, ignore the promise of Christ that the Holy Spirit will keep on teaching, and seize on some aspect that appeals to them as though it were the whole matter.

 

[Kulindahr]

Very reasonable point

I've missed you K (even if I completely disagree with your beliefs).

Awww...

I've been camping, attempting to de-stress after living through my pickup being totalled. There isn't much internet access in the mountains.