Lets just say it: The 1% took all our fucking money! Deflation looms.

[bankside]

The US did not "intentionally put its own people out of work." Free Trade has allowed the US to scrape by and avoid collapse. If you'd rather not sell any cars to China, more than to any other country including GM's own home, then please put up those walls and shoot yourselves in the collective foot.

Here's an example of moronic US trade laws in action:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repo...ment-for-small-colorado-town/article20660211/

It is a few thousand dollars worth of Canadian steel installed on a small bridge in a sleepy Colorado town.

But this summer’s rebuilding of the South Park Street Bridge in Morrison, Colo., 20 minutes west of Denver, is also an absurd tale of what happens when two massive integrated economies erect protectionist walls.

Everything was going according to plan when a contractor installed new steel beams on the aging bridge, the main link across a creek that cuts through town.

Then, soon after the bridge reopened, a city engineer spotted an invoice showing the beams were fabricated by Atlas Tube in Harrow, Ont. It was U.S.-cast steel, but rolled into beams across the border in Canada.

And that, under Buy America legislation, automatically disqualified the entire $144,000 (U.S.) project from getting federal funds.

Here's what I believe in: free trade or no trade. If you want to rip apart a bridge because American egos can't handle the idea of Canadian steelworkers doing as good or better a job as US steelworkers, then good luck to you. We'll sell steel to China. But don't count on us buying any of your exports. I'd rather we work together, trade together, prosper together. But in all honesty, every time I hear an attitude like yours or read an article like the one about that bridge, I go out of my way to be sure my next purchase is made somewhere other than the US. The choice is yours.

 

[Benvolio]

,

No, you don't get "it". I just don't buy the misinformation and propaganda that has been used to get people to go along with so called "free trade".

I know of no other government in the history of mankind that intentionally put it's own people out of work and lowered their standard of living, only the "bought and paid for" guys in Washington D.C.

"Oh, but the rest of the world will do better" this is B.S., the communist government of China has done well, we now are indebted to them, we lost jobs and tax revenue, our cities look like war zones, we can't fix our roads, we borrow money to fight wars that the wealthy make money on, I GET IT.

Our streets are decorated with the homeless, it's common for a worker to qualify for food stamps, we have a piss poor anemic access to health care I GET IT.

You believe in the one world, global trade, screw the American system, I don't.

I am somewhat like the rich guy, I ask myself "if I give it all away, who then can I help?" America has given it away, dropped the soap in the shower of global trade.

Meanwhile we import millions and millions of people who will work dirt cheap--and vote democrat asap.

 

[bankside]

,

Meanwhile we import millions and millions of people who will work dirt cheap--and vote democrat asap.

...most of them working for republican-supporting businesses whose owners pay dirt cheap wages, turn a blind eye to illegal immigration, and pay under the table to avoid tax or attention from the authorities....

 

[Benvolio]

...most of them working for republican-supporting businesses whose owners pay dirt cheap wages, turn a blind eye to illegal immigration, and pay under the table to avoid tax or attention from the authorities....

Nonsense. The Republicans consistently fight to limit immigration. Democrats consistently work to prevent limitations. The democrats on this form are typical. They want continued massive immigration for no good reason. The best justifications being that they work cheap, and only bad people want jobs and higher wages for Americans: racists, nativists, xenophobes, and the newly invested epithet, citizenists.

 

[mightbe]

He wasn't talking about politicians (who really don't support much of anything at all); he clearly said republican-supporting businesses.

But I disagree; it really doesn't matter who or what the business supports. Businesses of any creed or background can and have subverted authorities, hired illegally, and paid dodgy wages.

 

[Zu-Mendel]

Lol, when has the GOP lifted one finger to do anything about immigration other than rabble-rouse their base to the polls?

 

[Benvolio]

Lol, when has the GOP lifted one finger to do anything about immigration other than rabble-rouse their base to the polls?

They support bills in Congress to limit immigration and enforce the border. They have prevented the enactment of Obama's pro immigration "reform" bill. In some states they have actively worked to limit illegal immigration, fighting the Obama administration to do so. They have tried to prevent illegal voting by non citizens by requiring IDs, while Obama has fought to enable voting without IDs/

 

[vulgar_newcomer]

By the way my washer and dryer are actually from Korea. The car is from Japan. The computer's designed in the States but made in China with Korean parts. I think I'm sitting on an American sofa. And I'm not worried one damn bit that these things were not made in my city.

If you'd rather the computer and the sofa came from Korea too, by all means, please put up your tariff barriers.

One thing is certain no car, washer, truck, bus, bulldozer, locomotive engine, jet, TV, computer will come from Canada. Those heavy GE locomotives, Kenworth tractors, Caterpillar or Komatsu excavating equipment are not Canada names that plow the natural resources to move the economy.
I don't know what I'll do when I can't get 3.8 cu yards of good `ole Canada Sphagnum peat moss. But sooner or later the bogs are all harvested and the resource is gone.

 

[Kulindahr]

Political participation is an important factor.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-is-way-more-politically-active-than-you-are/

Good read. So when does Congress give us a law requiring states to make voting equally accessible to everyone?

 

[Kulindahr]

No, you don't get "it". I just don't buy the misinformation and propaganda that has been used to get people to go along with so called "free trade".

I know of no other government in the history of mankind that intentionally put it's own people out of work and lowered their standard of living, only the "bought and paid for" guys in Washington D.C.

"Oh, but the rest of the world will do better" this is B.S., the communist government of China has done well, we now are indebted to them, we lost jobs and tax revenue, our cities look like war zones, we can't fix our roads, we borrow money to fight wars that the wealthy make money on, I GET IT.

Our streets are decorated with the homeless, it's common for a worker to qualify for food stamps, we have a piss poor anemic access to health care I GET IT.

You believe in the one world, global trade, screw the American system, I don't.

I am somewhat like the rich guy, I ask myself "if I give it all away, who then can I help?" America has given it away, dropped the soap in the shower of global trade.

No, you don't get it, though if in your second paragraph you're referring to the GOP, then you have a point.

The rest of the world is doing better, and that's already starting to bring jobs back to the US -- at least, the ones that aren't disappearing entirely due to automation/robots. Our cities, some of them at any rate, have a faint resemblance to war zones, but that's due far more to the federal government subsidizing street violence through the badly-named "War on Drugs".

As for the homeless, a huge part of that issue is due to liberals who want everything tightly regulated, resulting in obscenely inflated housing prices.

Lastly, you're right about free trade: NAFTA didn't give us free trade, and Obama is working diligently to reduce free trade even more through the Trans-Pacific Partnership and other agreements designed to reduce national sovereignty for all participants in favor of corporations.

 

[EastMed]

Good read. So when does Congress give us a law requiring states to make voting equally accessible to everyone?

I wouldn't hold my breath on it!

 

[peeonme]

No, you don't get it, though if in your second paragraph you're referring to the GOP, then you have a point.

The rest of the world is doing better, and that's already starting to bring jobs back to the US -- at least, the ones that aren't disappearing entirely due to automation/robots. Our cities, some of them at any rate, have a faint resemblance to war zones, but that's due far more to the federal government subsidizing street violence through the badly-named "War on Drugs".

As for the homeless, a huge part of that issue is due to liberals who want everything tightly regulated, resulting in obscenely inflated housing prices.

Lastly, you're right about free trade: NAFTA didn't give us free trade, and Obama is working diligently to reduce free trade even more through the Trans-Pacific Partnership and other agreements designed to reduce national sovereignty for all participants in favor of corporations.

With all respect, I don't care about the rest of the world, at least to the extent that I feel that US workers should give up any thing for them.
Why couldn't China do as Japan and develop their own their own product line? They lured companies that had been born and grown in the USA to their shores with cheap labor, lack of regulation and then brought down the quality of the product, then since they had no market of their own to sell it to, they shipped it back to the same workers who used to manufacture the product.

I had no problem when Honda and Toyota (to name a few) showed up, US car manufacturers had become fat and lazy, the competition is good, it provokes innovation and keeps prices in check, this to me is free trade. Providing that the US car makers can sell in Asia as freely as Asia sells in our country. I have heard and read that in Japan it is not all that easy to sell an American made car.

As for selling them in China, that's fine, does China design and build a car or truck? or do they just hang out the cheap help sign and wait for American car companies to defect?

Yes, jobs are coming back, I spent the last 10 years of work dealing with tooling that was dangerous and defective, customers would bring us a print and need something remade that China had made for them, that was not up to specs, they said it was near impossible to return anything, so yes in the last few years people have started to return to the American Tool shop for quality tooling where people can be held accountable for what they ship.

 

[bankside]

Yes, jobs are coming back, I spent the last 10 years of work dealing with tooling that was dangerous and defective, customers would bring us a print and need something remade that China had made for them, that was not up to specs, they said it was near impossible to return anything, so yes in the last few years people have started to return to the American Tool shop for quality tooling where people can be held accountable for what they ship.

That's how the free market works. If you make better machined items than a Chinese company, you should win out when consumers have a choice. Maybe the Chinese should stick to high tech where they know what they're doing.

 

[bankside]

One thing is certain no car, washer, truck, bus, bulldozer, locomotive engine, jet, TV, computer will come from Canada. Those heavy GE locomotives, Kenworth tractors, Caterpillar or Komatsu excavating equipment are not Canada names that plow the natural resources to move the economy.
I don't know what I'll do when I can't get 3.8 cu yards of good `ole Canada Sphagnum peat moss. But sooner or later the bogs are all harvested and the resource is gone.

Canada's not a manufacturing powerhouse, though you might not know that flying a jet from Bombardier or taking one of their trains. Or driving in cars from GM, Ford, Chrysler, VW, Tesla, Toyota, Peugeot, or Mini, made with parts from Magna. Or riding in a bus from New Flyer. We do well with services though, possibly why manufacturing is less of a priority. And what should we do, ignore the natural resources because you would prefer we build our own washing machines behind a protectionist wall?

Yeah, that's basically the Wisdom of the Dear Leader that you want countries to follow, but North Korea's idea of Juche is not exactly winning any prizes.

 

[peeonme]

That's how the free market works. If you make better machined items than a Chinese company, you should win out when consumers have a choice. Maybe the Chinese should stick to high tech where they know what they're doing.

They have yet to prove that they know what they are doing in high tech, they assemble what is designed elsewhere, they steal proprietary info and hi jack designs.

 

[T-Rexx]

Pretty much shows the failure of trickle down economics.

"Tickle down economics" (aka "Reaganomics") is one of the most spectacular ideological failures of all time. It has twice resulted in the complete collapse of the US economy: 1929 and 2008.

On the other hand, New Deal progressive economic reform resulted in the most spectacular increase of prosperity in human history. And it was sustained over many decades (so long as the policy was sustained).

That anybody on earth still supports Reaganomics is amazing.

It shows the total failure of Obama's "economics" or lack thereof.

What, exactly, is it about Obama's economic program that you do not like?

The massive reduction in national debt?

The reduction in unemployment?

The reduction in foreclosures and evictions?

The massive increase in corporate profits?

What was it about GWB's economic program that you liked? The complete collapse of the banking system? The record foreclosures and evictions of Americans from their homes? The massive unemployment? The staggering national debt?

 

[Kulindahr]

With all respect, I don't care about the rest of the world....

That's why you don't get it: you can't cut off the rest of the world.

 

[Kulindahr]

"Tickle down economics" (aka "Reaganomics")

Wouldn't that be Elmonomics?

What, exactly, is it about Obama's economic program that you do not like?

The massive reduction in national debt?

I think you mean "deficit".

The reduction in unemployment?

The reduction in foreclosures and evictions?

The massive increase in corporate profits?

What was it about GWB's economic program that you liked? The complete collapse of the banking system? The record foreclosures and evictions of Americans from their homes? The massive unemployment? The staggering national debt?

Good questions, but I think you forgot a big one: the deceptive budgeting.

 

[Benvolio]

"Tickle down economics" (aka "Reaganomics") is one of the most spectacular ideological failures of all time. It has twice resulted in the complete collapse of the US economy: 1929 and 2008.

On the other hand, New Deal progressive economic reform resulted in the most spectacular increase of prosperity in human history. And it was sustained over many decades (so long as the policy was sustained).

That anybody on earth still supports Reaganomics is amazing.




What, exactly, is it about Obama's economic program that you do not like?

The massive reduction in national debt?

The reduction in unemployment?

The reduction in foreclosures and evictions?

The massive increase in corporate profits?

What was it about GWB's economic program that you liked? The complete collapse of the banking system? The record foreclosures and evictions of Americans from their homes? The massive unemployment? The staggering national debt?

Your belief that Obama has reduced the national debt shows your TOTAL lack of understanding.
You obviously do not realize that democrat economies is the true trickle down economics: confiscate from the successful and pass it around to the unsuccessful and the indolent.

 

[T-Rexx]

Your belief that Obama has reduced the national debt shows your TOTAL lack of understanding.
You obviously do not realize that democrat economies is the true trickle down economics: confiscate from the successful and pass it around to the unsuccessful and the indolent.

GWB created the largest deficit (by far) in American history from a budget surplus he inherited from Clinton.

Obama has cut that deficit to less than half of what he inherited from GWB. Less than half.

Republican presidents borrow, Democratic presidents pay the bills.

I ask you again: What is it about drunken-sailor spending, massive debt, and economic collapse that you Republicans find so attractive?