Liars Destroy Friendships

[Ambrocious]

I can't stand idly by anymore as I see the slow yet gradual slipping of all my friends and family as they purposely with hold the truth from me or down right lie to me. I stand to reason that lies happen to be the very progenitor of most of the worlds problems, even the problems that friends hold in common with each other and family with hold information for some reason or another.

I suppose I'm here to generally say that liars are my natural enemies and that it is bothering me so much that I am willing to go on a huge movement of truth to expose them for the liars that they are even if it means that I loose friendships in the process. It isn't healthy to lie to each other and yet some of the people that I considered to be friends lie constantly to me.

How many other people out there share in my sufferings? Got friends or even family that lies to you and you know it? I value the truth over money any day and I hate it when someone I am close to lies to my face even when I know the truth.

I'm just sick of this corroded world and the amount of people that I see everyday that either hold stuff back from me or blatantly lie to me. I have noticed over the past few years that people were changing into apathetic fiends for no apparent reason while I struggled to maintain my stance in honesty and try to hold a common good that all mankind aught to share. Now more than ever...I wish I had a true friend that I can trust and confide in.

Sorry for just ranting here, I'm just sick and tired of this bull shit.

 

[rareboy]

And you are totally honest?

Totally out?

Never fibbed or lied by omission?

There are white, grey, pathological and good and bad lies.

Yes, honesty is to valued highly.

But hopefully you're not just being paranoid about others lying to you.

Learn to accept everything you hear with healthy skepticism and if you don't like lies, tell people to stop it.

Tell them tell you the truth, not what they think you want to hear.

 

[Ambrocious]

I posted this in the Health and Wellbieng section but for some reason this was moved here without reason.

To whichever mod or admin that moved this to HERE, can you please move it back there as it does have to do with my health and wellbeing in the effect that it depresses me so it does belong in that section. Because it was moved here, my whole topic is being taken as if it were a trivial issue, not a sensitive matter.

So to any admin or mod, please move it back there, I didn't error in judgment upon it's point of origin. Thank you.

 

[Corny]

The Health and Wellbeing mod moved it here

And I agree with his decision:

I suppose I'm here to generally say that liars are my natural enemies and that it is bothering me so much that I am willing to go on a huge movement of truth to expose them for the liars that they are even if it means that I loose friendships in the process. It isn't healthy to lie to each other and yet some of the people that I considered to be friends lie constantly to me.

Sounds more like you are talking about relationships than about health

I will leave it up to him whether he wants to undo this or not.

 

[G-Lexington]

Well, I can say I know pretty much zero about you other than these two posts. And it's your second post that sort of clarifies the picture.

First off, this entire section is about interpersonal relations. Be that "the guy I hooked up with last night", a long-term boyfriend, friends, or family. Given that, this section would seem to be the best place for a thread about dealing with liars, or people who have lied to you.

But upon reading your second post, I have a feeling that you actually are correct. This thread doesn't belong here. Because this thread isn't about the liars. It isn't even about your relationship or interactions with people who lie.

This thread is about you. And how you are no longer going to have interactions or relationships with such people. In short, there's no need for advice or recommendations, since you have the solution. You have the answers. There's nothing to add to such a thread other than commenting on whether or not we've also reached such a place.

I'll add - unnecessarily - that I have plenty of people in my life. And some of them lie, or refuse to talk about things. But I have no problem dealing with them. Whether or not that makes me inferior, superior, or merely different than you I leave as an exercise to the reader.

Lex

 

[rareboy]

I frankly think that it is about both.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you have previously been diagnosed with mental health issues and are likely on medications for your condition.

Your mental state appears to be adversely affected at present by your perception that everyone is lying.

Please seek immediate professional help. If you have a mental health specialist working with you , please contact them as soon as possible and discuss this anxiety and feeling of depression and anger with them.

If you are under the care of a primary care physician only, please contact them to discuss these issues.

The language you used in the original post and your concern that this is a health and well-being issue only underscore that there is reason to be concerned.

Let us know how you make out.

 

[theeroopable]

I can't stand idly by anymore as I see the slow yet gradual slipping of all my friends and family as they purposely with hold the truth from me or down right lie to me. I stand to reason that lies happen to be the very progenitor of most of the worlds problems, even the problems that friends hold in common with each other and family with hold information for some reason or another.

I suppose I'm here to generally say that liars are my natural enemies and that it is bothering me so much that I am willing to go on a huge movement of truth to expose them for the liars that they are even if it means that I loose friendships in the process. It isn't healthy to lie to each other and yet some of the people that I considered to be friends lie constantly to me.

How many other people out there share in my sufferings? Got friends or even family that lies to you and you know it? I value the truth over money any day and I hate it when someone I am close to lies to my face even when I know the truth.

I'm just sick of this corroded world and the amount of people that I see everyday that either hold stuff back from me or blatantly lie to me. I have noticed over the past few years that people were changing into apathetic fiends for no apparent reason while I struggled to maintain my stance in honesty and try to hold a common good that all mankind aught to share. Now more than ever...I wish I had a true friend that I can trust and confide in.

Sorry for just ranting here, I'm just sick and tired of this bull shit.

I've come to learn that it is better if I try to understand why a person has lied to me, rather than have a reaction to the lie itself. There is almost always a reason.

On top of this, it would give you a chance to express to them that you would much rather have a friendship or relationship with them that wasn't based in some kind of falsehood and that they be forthright with you, and you the same with them.

 

[Ambrocious]

I frankly think that it is about both.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you have previously been diagnosed with mental health issues and are likely on medications for your condition.

Your mental state appears to be adversely affected at present by your perception that everyone is lying.

Please seek immediate professional help. If you have a mental health specialist working with you , please contact them as soon as possible and discuss this anxiety and feeling of depression and anger with them.

If you are under the care of a primary care physician only, please contact them to discuss these issues.

The language you used in the original post and your concern that this is a health and well-being issue only underscore that there is reason to be concerned.

Let us know how you make out.

Excuse me!? I am not on medications buddy. I am deeply offended by your comment. This needs to be in the health and wellbeing section as I was sharing my hurt emotions and was wanting to hear others similar issues. As I said before, if this is left in this section, it will turn into a trivial debate/Argument rather than the empathetic talks that I aimed for.

I also do not appreciate your slander.


G-Lexington: I suppose I was just venting as well as stating the obvious. I just wanted to strike up talks with others that are irritated like I am with the same issues.

 

[rareboy]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Based on your posting history and apparent pre-occupations, I'd only change my initial post a little bit.

I would strongly suggest that you seek out a qualified therapist to help you work through a number of your anxiety and anger issues. They are not healthy.

The idea that everyone is lying to you and that there are conspiracies around every corner is quite commonplace with people who may have a certain neuro-chemical imbalance. If you find yourself thinking about this on a continual basis, you may be simply experiencing a fairly common condition.

On the more serious side, such pre-occupations and fears may also be indicative of pressure within the cerebral area; possibly from a tumour or vascular condition.

And I'm not lying to you.

This is not trivial. It could be quite serious in fact. You owe it to yourself to have some neurological screening done.

And when you get a clean bill of health, you're more than welcome to come back and tell me to go fuck myself, and then you can do what you want.

But I think you may be in need of medical support.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>>And when you get a clean bill of health, you're more than welcome to come back and tell me to go fuck myself, and then you can do what you want.

Or ignore the first part, and skip straight to telling us to go fuck ourselves. We just offer advice here.

Lex

 

[Kulindahr]

Liars can be a pain. Chronic liars aren't a pain; you know not to trust them, so the best thing is to treat them as entertainment and not let it bother you.

But when it seems everyone is lying to you, the question has to be asked: whose perceptions are wrong? There are two ways of addressing that -- the first is to do thorough research and become certain of the facts, the second is to seek the assessment of someone trained in telling when a person's mind isn't working right. Those aren't mutually exclusive, either.

If it's people you've trusted for a long time, it's best to not flip out or anything, but wonder why: if suddenly they all see a need to lie to you, what's the reason? OTOH, the "why" may be that your own perceptions are off.

And it's no insult to suggest that. Things in the environment can throw our perceptions off and we don't even know it -- fore that matter, things in the environment can combine to do things to our minds with no way of our knowing, because not even the experts know all the interactions of everything out there (believe me, I know whereof I speak on this).

So do some checking. If there's any way to see a mental health professional on the cheap, do so -- a neuropsychologist is good when you have no clue; they're trained in knowing whether the paint fumes on your new model frontier steam engine and the allergy pill you took for the mold under the kitchen sink can tweak your mind into thinking that you won ten thousand dollars last night and misplaced it, or whatever.

Either way, hang in there.


And as for the mods' call on this one, health and well-being and relationships are so closely intertwined I'd say they should drop it where you want it.

 

[Kulindahr]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.

Based on your posting history and apparent pre-occupations, I'd only change my initial post a little bit.

I would strongly suggest that you seek out a qualified therapist to help you work through a number of your anxiety and anger issues. They are not healthy.

The idea that everyone is lying to you and that there are conspiracies around every corner is quite commonplace with people who may have a certain neuro-chemical imbalance. If you find yourself thinking about this on a continual basis, you may be simply experiencing a fairly common condition.

On the more serious side, such pre-occupations and fears may also be indicative of pressure within the cerebral area; possibly from a tumour or vascular condition.

And I'm not lying to you.

This is not trivial. It could be quite serious in fact. You owe it to yourself to have some neurological screening done.

And when you get a clean bill of health, you're more than welcome to come back and tell me to go fuck myself, and then you can do what you want.

But I think you may be in need of medical support.

Quite so.

Ambrocious, it's no shame to get checked out. I once had a problem with seeing everything under a half inch across looking like it was moving. My brain interpreted them as bugs, since that's what small moving things in our world are. So spots on the wall, scratches on the floor, a raisin on the table, became insects and arachnids and stuff. Turned out that given certain medications I was on, certain solvents I was working with were a NO-NO of major magnitude. Yeah, that one seems kinda obvious -- but another time I slowly got to where it seemed everyone I talked to was mad at me. I tried and tried to figure out why they were mad, but everyone I talked to swore no one was mad. Eventually I had a regular doc visit and this came out; a little research, and I learned that a construction chemical I was working with messed with the chemistry of the meds I was taking, and I perceived everyone as angry. It just took a while for the effect to hit.

Anyway, it's worth looking into it. Human body and brain chemistry can be pretty delicate, so if people who were straight with you before aren't now, it is possible that something has messed with your brain.

 

[hotatlboi]

I also do not appreciate your slander.

It's not a slander to say that someone might have a mental health problem. If he was wrong, then he was simply mistaken. That doesn't amount to slander.

Statistically more than half the population suffers from some form of mental health issue at some point in their lives.

 

[Ambrocious]

It's just that the ones who were close to me are no longer close to me. I use to ignore all the crap that they pulled but I just can't do that anymore. I'm sick of being brushed under the radar of their friendships and I'm sick of my family seemingly keeping information from me. One example is that my mom who hasn't had a serious relationship with anyone for a while is now suddenly talking with some guy yet she claims it's nothing really. She talks with him all the time yet she claims it's nothing. I know my mom and there is something out of character with her.

My friend, lets just call him Speax, has always been a liar but recently he is telling lies that make absolutely no sense at all. He told me he left for the night to a different city when I have multiple people telling me the opposite and then I caught him in the lie when he later told me that he never even said he went to that city but I still have his text message confirming it.

My friend that I have known since I moved into town back in 2006 is being very reserved. He went from being bisexual to now having a girlfriend and it's looking pretty serious...he asked her to marry him. That isn't the problem. The problem comes in where he isn't really talking much to me anymore. I'm actually good friends with his girlfriend and they both enjoy my company, I can be pretty funny when we get drunk. My friend however seems to be holding back. When I ask to talk to him knowing that something is bothering him, he wont tell me anything and claims everything is fine.

My friend Zach has distanced himself from me tons over the passed few years, mostly because of his drug addictions. He doesn't lie to me more so than he just doesn't tell me anything anymore. I'm the kind of person that loves to help whenever I can and when my friends turn me aside, I feel kind of crushed.

Overall, I suppose that keeping information from me isn't a crime and it isn't really a hideous lie but it hurts me when I can't get my friends to talk to me anymore. My sister is lying to me, from time to time I'll catch her in stupid little lies that wouldn't mean much to anyone else but it really bothers me because I'm always openly honest with my friends and family.


I am kind of trying to make some new friends because I have watched as the slow separation has turned into a complete division of our friendship. I'm just looking for someone to trust and I suppose if this makes me in need of mental health, maybe I can meet a nice shrink who will be "friends" with me but last I knew, they had rules about being friends with clients.

 

[G-Lexington]

I guess none of the situations you put forth is that weird or surprising. I can imagine a family member telling me her boyfriend isn't anything serious when it is, or a friend telling me he was going to Town X when he was really going to Town Z. But it's a bit strange they're all happening at once. And if it were happening to me (and such things have),I'd either just accept that they don't want to talk about it with me (mom's new boyfriend and friend who won't talk), or perhaps some sort of misunderstanding took place (Town X/Z). I've had people lie to me deliberately, and usually it's because they don't want to get into details with me. One friend told me once that she was leaving town to visit friends. Ends up she was at home filing documents against someone who raped her friend. I'd like to think we can share everything, but she wasn't ready to share that, and frankly, I'd be a rather heartless bastard in this case to put my need to not be lied to over her comfort level (and the friend's). No, not all cases are like this. But I assume people have a rationale for lying (or not talking). It might be befause they're uncomfortable with the truth. It may be they'reprotecting a fragile ego. And yes, it may be they don't want me involved. ("Sorry, Lex, but I can't make it to GargoyleCon this year. I've got to fly to Duluth for some reason..."). In which case I just accept the subtext under the guise of the context, and move on.

Lex

 

[Kulindahr]

Okay, this sounds less frantic-paranoid than it did.

Life has cycles and epicycles, sort of like the old "biorhythms" charts that were once popular enough they built calculators that did nothing but show what one's biorhythms were up to: things proceed in waves, and sometimes a lot of waves come together and you get lifted high, while other times a lot fade/ebb together and you get dropped low. Normally we bob a little one wave or another, because life has so many waves that usually when some are lifting, others are dropping.

My waves dropped a lot when I came out: family, friends, acquaintances wrote me off or even turned on me. But that's the sort that isn't hard to explain: in their views, I had just become an alien in place of the person in their minds, and sharp alterations were not totally unexpected. But it sounds like your waves dropped without a core cause that would lead you to expect it, even in hindsight. Those are hard to take, because we can't find an explanation that makes sense, and indeed there probably isn't one single explanation. It may even be the case that some relationships we going sour already but were easy to discount; "it'll go back to normal" is easy to say to tell yourself things aren't actually bad. But then a threshold is reached, a cumulative downslope of dropping waves, that eludes denial -- so a reality already growing but subconsciously ignored seems to have arrived as a big wave, when it's really smaller waves acting independently, and their size got sufficiently small the cumulative effect can't be ignored.

I suppose that's another way of saying that little things add up, plus that our minds make excuses for little things until the excuses don't work any more.

Now, some would say the thing to do is go back and figure out how each situation got to where it is. Sometimes that helps; for me, it mostly helps in letting me defuse anger at people who "suddenly changed" by recognizing that the only sudden thing was my realization of what had been going on.

Others would say forget them and move on, and that can also be useful -- in fact, without that, to an extent the understanding from figuring things out is fairly useless: figuring it out should aid in letting go.

Yet different people would urge diving in and "fixing" it, and while that can be the most attractive route, it's also the most risky, because it entails trying to get other people to, in most cases, effectively turn back the clock... and even if a guy is successful, the result may not be healthy for either party.


What's my advice? Well, I'll start with the observable fact of self-ownership, the core not just of political health but mental health.

No matter what course you choose, you can't let others own you. Trying desperately to "fix it" is often an indication that you have assigned ownership of a piece of yourself to someone else, and that to get it back, you have to get them back. The right move there is to disconnect, reclaim ownership, and stand on your own. Trying too hard to "figure it out" can involve surrender of self-ownership as well, by consigning part of your self-worth to solving -- and perhaps fixing -- the problem. So the thing to do is to figure out what things hold power over you, because that means you've let them own you, and reclaim that part of your life.

What that means in practical terms could take a book, and I'm already writing one of those over in the story forum.....

 

[Ambrocious]

Okay, this sounds less frantic-paranoid than it did.

Life has cycles and epicycles, sort of like the old "biorhythms" charts that were once popular enough they built calculators that did nothing but show what one's biorhythms were up to: things proceed in waves, and sometimes a lot of waves come together and you get lifted high, while other times a lot fade/ebb together and you get dropped low. Normally we bob a little one wave or another, because life has so many waves that usually when some are lifting, others are dropping.

My waves dropped a lot when I came out: family, friends, acquaintances wrote me off or even turned on me. But that's the sort that isn't hard to explain: in their views, I had just become an alien in place of the person in their minds, and sharp alterations were not totally unexpected. But it sounds like your waves dropped without a core cause that would lead you to expect it, even in hindsight. Those are hard to take, because we can't find an explanation that makes sense, and indeed there probably isn't one single explanation. It may even be the case that some relationships we going sour already but were easy to discount; "it'll go back to normal" is easy to say to tell yourself things aren't actually bad. But then a threshold is reached, a cumulative downslope of dropping waves, that eludes denial -- so a reality already growing but subconsciously ignored seems to have arrived as a big wave, when it's really smaller waves acting independently, and their size got sufficiently small the cumulative effect can't be ignored.

I suppose that's another way of saying that little things add up, plus that our minds make excuses for little things until the excuses don't work any more.

Now, some would say the thing to do is go back and figure out how each situation got to where it is. Sometimes that helps; for me, it mostly helps in letting me defuse anger at people who "suddenly changed" by recognizing that the only sudden thing was my realization of what had been going on.

Others would say forget them and move on, and that can also be useful -- in fact, without that, to an extent the understanding from figuring things out is fairly useless: figuring it out should aid in letting go.

Yet different people would urge diving in and "fixing" it, and while that can be the most attractive route, it's also the most risky, because it entails trying to get other people to, in most cases, effectively turn back the clock... and even if a guy is successful, the result may not be healthy for either party.


What's my advice? Well, I'll start with the observable fact of self-ownership, the core not just of political health but mental health.

No matter what course you choose, you can't let others own you. Trying desperately to "fix it" is often an indication that you have assigned ownership of a piece of yourself to someone else, and that to get it back, you have to get them back. The right move there is to disconnect, reclaim ownership, and stand on your own. Trying too hard to "figure it out" can involve surrender of self-ownership as well, by consigning part of your self-worth to solving -- and perhaps fixing -- the problem. So the thing to do is to figure out what things hold power over you, because that means you've let them own you, and reclaim that part of your life.

What that means in practical terms could take a book, and I'm already writing one of those over in the story forum.....

Fascinating concepts! I think your right in many aspects here. I have noticed all of the little things in the last couple of years but it has been a subtle recognition that I quickly brushed off and ignored for the most part. As G- Lexington said that my friends may have a good reason to be untruthful with me, I can understand this but I would hope that they may confide in me for support but obviously I haven't given them reason enough to do this...I wonder what that makes me?

It still is very odd that I thought that everyone is seemingly changing around me but I hadn't stopped and thought about the possibilities of myself changing. I went through a major paradigm shift a little over a year ago and ever since then I have not seen things quite the same. Some would argue that it caused the divisions in my relationships but I think that after I began to see things in new ways I may be the one who caused the divisions by the new found understanding however did not recognize that it was me till recently.

Even though it may have been me who stirred up the ant hill, now that I take a careful look back at things, my friends have stayed the same yet I began to grasp more of what they are about and like than I originally did so before. So they haven't changed, I have just been seeing them through my perception differently. Each one of you could argue that it made things worse but actually it has been greatly beneficial for me. I can now see what a true friend might be aside from the disloyalty and lies. I know that change can be for the better or for the worse and overall it has been for the better for one huge reason: I had some rather bad friends. They weren't bad as people, they were bad for my humanly progression forward.

 

[G-Lexington]

>>> G- Lexington said that my friends may have a good reason to be untruthful with me, I can understand this but I would hope that they may confide in me for support but obviously I haven't given them reason enough to do this...I wonder what that makes me?

It makes you the other person involved - that's it.

I dated a guy once whose family never talked about anything, ever. Things were usually glossed over or pushed aside, and a happy face painted on everything. And when I started dating him, and he wouldn't tell me what was wrong, I thought as you do. What's wrong with me? Why doesn't he trust me? But there was nothing worng with me - he didn't trust ANYONE. My only fault was assuming that because I dealt with issues in a frank and outgoing manner, that EVERYBODY did (or at least should). And if they didn't, it meant some failing on my part.

As I said above, people lie for a variety of reasons, and many of the reasons for doing so have nothing at sll to do with the person being lied to. They'd lie to their boyfriend or mother or best friend in precisely the same way. It doesn't necessarily indicate some sort of failing on your part, or the part of the relationship. People often move and act to protect their quivering gelatinous underbellies, and I've found it best not to take that sort of stuff personally.

Lex