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Looking At Capialism from OUTSIDE THE BOX

KrisHawkXXX

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Look at Capitalism, that's why the global population doesn't have what they need even though there are more then enough resources. The Majority of Capitalist countries are stricken with a bigger depression and famine compared to the USA. We WASTE resources in advertising as all these boxes and useless garbage gets stuck in land fills so companies can make more of it just for profit.

So even though there are enough resources, these companies lie to citizens through the GOP/Conservatives/Pro-Business Crooks around the world that there aren't enough resources and then make people use a system of money (power+mind control) to compete against each other and destroy a huge percentage of our intellect and our human civility.

Isn't it cruel that we have to go get a job working for these companies to make them richer while we struggle to make a profit in order to survive that we lose our respect for each other and say, "Well that's just business." Seeing as how the main product of Capitalism is PROFIT and not the benefit of human society... If you wish to testify against capitalism, you are seen as a bum and worthless in society. You become shunned upon and your life is miserable because people around you just don't understand. The rest of the world goes to work to make this money which in reality is worth NOTHING and people operate like a machine. Sometimes in the business world people lose a sense of ethics for people and get rich by keeping other people poor. There is NOT enough money to circulate the world which is WHY money is inefficient because it doesn't properly get all the resources to the global population. Capitalism is like monopoly, its luck. If you are born into wealth, have a loving home, a decent education, or given a break of course you will love the system of Capitalism because your needs are being met even if the majority of others are suffering in poverty.

Greed is not something we are born with as Capitalists would have you believe so that anyone is afraid of the human society socializing with each other. They keep the people stupid and every time the rich destroy the economy for the middle and lower class systems, somehow the poor and middle class start fighting and blaming each-other whether its immigrants, blacks, gays, Mexicans, jews, poor people, socialists, etc. Then they put garbage on fox news to distract the public from the REAL issues and people make their biggest concern something as stupid as "Border Control." As if we all have to be separated countries? Why can't people just go where they please? We all share the same world!!

The bourgeoisie paints a picture that all the minorities are sucking tax dollars when in reality most people on welfare are white people anyway. #-o Yet instead of SOCIALIZING and breaking away from our brainwashed-pathology, we separate ourselves from people and we keep secrets within ourselves. We develop a way of thinking that is private and have a sense of being kept hidden. For example, a man who is attracted to both genders (like most) may live his entire life scared and depressed because he feels oppressed from a mind-controlling society that is almost robotic. But If he was able to socialize with the world and just speak as a human being, he would realize there is nothing wrong with him and that everything is simply going to be ok. :) We torture ourselves in life with trivial things the biggest one being money.

Nobody needs money. Money was just created to help understand what it meant to keep society organized during a more primitive stage of society's growth in terms of pathology. Capitalism makes people believe we need all these labels and rules for ourselves socially even if they are ridiculous. Capitalism brought forth many positive effects as technology became more efficient for human use. But now unavoidable, natural, and devastating side effects are beginning to show their true colors to anyone who is humble enough to see them. Capitalism began to develop a mind of its own and over time as distorted social beliefs changed how people live their lives from day to day. For the truth to come out, Capitalism would fall within itself. So we as a society are trained to tell ourselves lies and alternate fantasies because we are too terrified to think for ourselves or challenge what was TOLD to us rather then what we learned on our own. We create these labels and rules for ourselves but never understand why we do it like robot.

Capitalism is not an economic system nor is Feudalism or socialism, they are ways of LIFE. In our current point in history we are still in a primitive stage in which a childish society puts the needs of greed first before the people. Life CAN be much more simpler if people stopped getting so defensive about this topic and could just be HUMBLE enough to say they don't know everything.

Capitalism can not just be overthrown. People have to realize things naturally as generations go on and the same patterns keep happening over and over again. That was the biggest mistake of the Soviet Union which turned out to be a devastating and oppressive society because the system was a "planned" economy, people still used money, there was a dictator in place as well as a controlling government which defeats the purpose of communism especially seeing that the soviet union called themselves a "nation." There would be NO countries in a communist state nor any borders... we'd all be people that shared the world with each other. A world of real communism is something none of us could begin to imagine because we have so many poisoned ideas of how ethics should be. A true communal state probably won't happen for hundreds of thousands of years. We as a human society are VERY young and anyone who thinks we are at the peak of human intellect are just narcissistic and blinded. We have A LONG WAY TO GO.

The CIA and world leaders know very well that the soviet union was FAR from a communist state, but by painting a distorted picture, society becomes afraid of change and something that is actually beneficial for everyone.

Go back and read this post again.. maybe you will understand it more.
 
th soviet union WAS exactly a communist state. Both by thier definition and ours.

capitalism IS being overthrown right now, by government spending and unreasonably lowering taxes to pay for the spending.

as for not needing money, that infers that you are willing to go back to the barter system OR make and produce every thing that we personally need.

Ok lets backtrack a bit.

People in communities used t trade... a dairy farmer gave everyone their milk and then the buthcher gave everyone their meat... as long as everyone contributed then it worked.

But they didn't so it didn't. society evolved and made the barter system.

then you brought your cheese and milk to the butcher and he gave you a fair exchange of worth in meat.

well that proved unweildy as time went on as well, so a metal standard was developed. Gold and silver, heavy and small, yet valuable replaced the goods, which represented a mans lifes work.

in other words... if you spend a month growing a crop, and you get one hundred gold pieces for it, then one month of your life was worth one hundred gold pieces.

but THAT became difficult because people just realized that it was easier to steal the gold and silver than trade for it. It was also very heavy to trade for large transactions.

paper money was originally called a reserve note. that meant that someone in a fort, oh say fort knox for example, would be holding a certain value of gold on your behalf and they would give you a light small piece of paper in its place to use for the purpose of bartering. I know there are huge cdonspiracy theories about whether gov't have the gold to back up their money, but when you compare currencies nationally, the trade rate is calculated on a variety of values, one of which how much gold one unit represents.

with me so far?... so one dollar is worth a thousand pesos (not a real value, just an example) and that is an accepted standard.

currency values also trend up and down basedon speculation, inflation and deflation of goods.

BUT.... if we had no money we would have no way of sharing resources within the small community.

we could replace it electronically with cards, as we have done with debit cards, bu tin the end, we still have to have a gold standard that values a lifes work and its products.

Communism asserted that all peoples lives were of equal value and as such the products they created were all of equal value. the state seized all goods made, and gave everyone an equal amount of the GDP.... gross domestic production. that is fine if everyone works hard.

what REALLY happened in communism was that the people realized that no mater how hard they worked or how many goods they produced, they would be assured of a basic income. that reduced the quality of the products and then the average amount of the individual's share decreased. this plummeted so far in one hundred years within the USSR that no one could even feed themselves and they had little to no incentive to make and produce superior products. American goods were superior and they became desireable on the black market.

lawlessness and smuggling is another topic entirely that cropped up as a result of the system. the GOvernments response was to react with an "IRON FIST" as it became known.

Capitalism is the process by which we as individuals can freely barter and trade our money for gain, setting the quality of our lives on our own work ethic and our own abilities to negotiate.

Capitalism promotes competition in the marketplace, and as a result we have superior products. Hyper capitalism can have bad results, like.... a car can be advertized as safe when it is actualy cheap and dangerous. Gov't regualtions, standards, and inspections insures that goods are worth what the consumer believes them to be.

How could our modern complex society function and prosper without money?
 
th soviet union WAS exactly a communist state. Both by thier definition and ours.

capitalism IS being overthrown right now, by government spending and unreasonably lowering taxes to pay for the spending.

as for not needing money, that infers that you are willing to go back to the barter system OR make and produce every thing that we personally need.

Ok lets backtrack a bit.

People in communities used t trade... a dairy farmer gave everyone their milk and then the buthcher gave everyone their meat... as long as everyone contributed then it worked.

But they didn't so it didn't. society evolved and made the barter system.

then you brought your cheese and milk to the butcher and he gave you a fair exchange of worth in meat.

well that proved unweildy as time went on as well, so a metal standard was developed. Gold and silver, heavy and small, yet valuable replaced the goods, which represented a mans lifes work.

in other words... if you spend a month growing a crop, and you get one hundred gold pieces for it, then one month of your life was worth one hundred gold pieces.

but THAT became difficult because people just realized that it was easier to steal the gold and silver than trade for it. It was also very heavy to trade for large transactions.

paper money was originally called a reserve note. that meant that someone in a fort, oh say fort knox for example, would be holding a certain value of gold on your behalf and they would give you a light small piece of paper in its place to use for the purpose of bartering. I know there are huge cdonspiracy theories about whether gov't have the gold to back up their money, but when you compare currencies nationally, the trade rate is calculated on a variety of values, one of which how much gold one unit represents.

with me so far?... so one dollar is worth a thousand pesos (not a real value, just an example) and that is an accepted standard.

currency values also trend up and down basedon speculation, inflation and deflation of goods.

BUT.... if we had no money we would have no way of sharing resources within the small community.

we could replace it electronically with cards, as we have done with debit cards, bu tin the end, we still have to have a gold standard that values a lifes work and its products.

Communism asserted that all peoples lives were of equal value and as such the products they created were all of equal value. the state seized all goods made, and gave everyone an equal amount of the GDP.... gross domestic production. that is fine if everyone works hard.

what REALLY happened in communism was that the people realized that no mater how hard they worked or how many goods they produced, they would be assured of a basic income. that reduced the quality of the products and then the average amount of the individual's share decreased. this plummeted so far in one hundred years within the USSR that no one could even feed themselves and they had little to no incentive to make and produce superior products. American goods were superior and they became desireable on the black market.

lawlessness and smuggling is another topic entirely that cropped up as a result of the system. the GOvernments response was to react with an "IRON FIST" as it became known.

Capitalism is the process by which we as individuals can freely barter and trade our money for gain, setting the quality of our lives on our own work ethic and our own abilities to negotiate.

Capitalism promotes competition in the marketplace, and as a result we have superior products. Hyper capitalism can have bad results, like.... a car can be advertized as safe when it is actualy cheap and dangerous. Gov't regualtions, standards, and inspections insures that goods are worth what the consumer believes them to be.

How could our modern complex society function and prosper without money?

Before I continue, I wanna assure you I am not a communist :)

I've read everything you've written twice, (*8*) and I can understand why you feel strongly about your opinion. :kiss:

Sometimes as human beings we need to be humble and intellectual enough to look outside the present time. We need to see ourselves as one person that is just a part of history. For example society before Capitalism had no idea what the future would hold. The system of feudalism was a way of life for a very long time before people started thinking outside the box. Feudalism over time taught people how to communicate with each other to get their needs met even if they were being taken advantage of by the system. Money still existed during a time of feudalism, but money wasn't the main product of the system itself. The main product was a system of trading and getting needs back in exchange.

Capitalism gave people a sense of freedom and with that freedom people expanded their ideas. But for Capitalism to happen, we needed an oppressive system of feudalism to allow countless generations to fight back over time. We learned from our mistakes and made a great step forward with Capitalism.

With the industrial revolution taking full effect in the United states, feudalism started to fade out as people realized they could have a better life. Capitalism was a huge step up for society's development. :D People who were tied to the land they were living on were oppressed in many ways that we are today and in some different ways. To keep power control many Feudal Lords struggled hard to keep the system in tact but over time the people got smarter and wanted a sense of more freedom, self-esteem, and independence. But before that, change wasn't so easy because people were misinformed because their psychology was poisoned by a young and immature society that was very mismanaged. Think of society from past to future as a human life. We need mistakes to learn and grow. Without mistakes, we would not be who we are today. If we made no mistakes, we would stay in a child-like mental state and never have our eyes opened.

Now over time Capitalism brought many great changes to the world in terms of things that helped us gain a greater intellect, technological development, and a sense of being. Seeing as how we are still at an early point in history, we can not imagine just how Capitalism will fall or how society will eventually realize something better IS possible.

It will be beyond our lifetime that capitalism should collapse seeing as how Feudalism was around for for thousands of years. But all we can do in the meantime is be better people and not allow the poison of Capitalism to destroy our human civility. ;) We can teach our kids and younger generations what it means to really love someone as a precious human being. The many generations of feudalism that worked to make society move forward after a difficult struggle should be appreciated because they built our future. We should start building a better future as well so that the next stage of society will appreciate everything we've done for them hundreds or thousands of years from now.

Joseph Stalin failed to realize that you just can't IMPLEMENT communism or immediately expect society to just agree to change especially when there is a world war going on and a power struggle. Joseph Stalin had NO clue about anything Marx had intended about the natural process of society's development. Another mistake was the Vanguard party which was to "lead the people's thinking" which is a huge contradiction to communism seeing that Capitalism has political parties to tell people how to think. We should be thinking for ourselves so that we can experience just how much we are capable of with our potential. The only similarity between Karl Marx and Joseph Stalin was the term "Communism" itself. But both were 100% complete opposites. Just like "Sun" or "Son". Marx envisioned a world with just one state and no country so that all the resources could be shared as a huge community with technology that is BEYOND our imagination because we haven't even reached that point in time yet. People are often misinformed that communism is about "Rationing" :rolleyes: or everyone just "Getting the same as everyone else."

Your facts are correct about Soviet "Communism" and I'm happy you are open-minded to see that piece of information. :-) The people were still working to make a huge profit for one main Capitalist/dictator, the government that owned and controlled everything. The people should always have control over their lives in order to be their true happy self. The GOP's interpretation of government control is just motivated by false propaganda and selfishness because they don't want the government to regulate unfair business practices. The GOP complain that the liberals are against America and the people yet they contradict themselves numerous times and use whatever buzz words like "Socialism" to strike terror into people. (There are different forms of socialism, so the GOP distorts facts to make it seem as if Hitler's "National Socialism" is the same as Marx/Socialism. Two completely different worlds. ..|) The GOP hates the government control only because they have the mentality, "Stay the fuck outta the business man's way" and they play the victim as if they are just like normal people struggling and then turn the public against itself. People start fighting and they don't even know why. :cry:

If you study history you will see how many things are being repeated due to ignorance. ;)

Can I ask where you obtained the belief that Capitalism is being overthrown right now? We are going through a recession and alot of what is going on now has been done in history before. Money that is being spent is a sign that Capitalism is very alive and well. :p The citizens are just mentally ill from being brainwashed.

I understand your confusion fully on how resources will be used by a social society. :-) I understand the concepts on how these distortions and these psychological robotic-responses/beliefs have come into play. Things wouldn't need a money value or need to be counted because they wouldn't be getting sold. The whole work ethics that we see now would be so different that we can't imagine it because we aren't there yet. People constantly want everything NOW in this society due to impatience and if they can't have it right away, it must be no good or not worth the wait/fight.

Because we are so dependent on the system we live in now that can't just be changed with the flip of a switch, it is SO hard for us to imagine a society being less selfish as time moves on. All we can do is live our lives and be humble enough to say we are just another small tiny fraction of history. ..|

Once you understand everything I've been talking about, you will really feel liberated and happier with yourself. :) I feel like a happier person. I love knowing I can love a complete stranger and see people as another human being with thoughts and feelings. I couldn't hurt a person for any amount of money. Human life is too beautiful for something so meaningless.
 
i didn't say that capitalism was being overthrown, at least, that was not my intention.

what part of my post implies that so we can talk about it

btw.... i also appreciate your civility when you post your ideas here!
 
th soviet union WAS exactly a communist state. Both by thier definition and ours.

capitalism IS being overthrown right now, by government spending and unreasonably lowering taxes to pay for the spending.

as for not needing money, that infers that you are willing to go back to the barter system

I'm sorry I guess something you said here made me think you said Capitalism is being overthrown right now. I guess I made a mistake? :confused: I'm sorry.

BTW, I would never wish to go back in time and relive Feudalism. I want us to move forward towards a happier future. :D

What makes me sad is that many people here on this forum will read two paragraphs then start sputtering out the same recycled propaganda I was poisoned with growing up. I learn to ignore it though because I know that all of us are imperfect and there are still things that I don't even know.
 
I'm sorry I guess something you said here made me think you said Capitalism is being overthrown right now. I guess I made a mistake? :confused: I'm sorry.

BTW, I would never wish to go back in time and relive Feudalism. I want us to move forward towards a happier future. :D

What makes me sad is that many people here on this forum will read two paragraphs then start sputtering out the same recycled propaganda I was poisoned with growing up. I learn to ignore it though because I know that all of us are imperfect and there are still things that I don't even know.

being open to new ideas is vital especially for a college student or anyone wishing to expand their mind. ..|

critical evaluation has to be part of that, though.

I have noticed as well that people often read one sentence even, and focus on it completely.:confused:

back to your topic...

you seem to have a fascination with socialism, communism, and marxism. what led you to that area of personal investigation, and where are you getting your information from?
 
It sounds like someone is trying to understand the concept of fiat money but is beating around the bushes. I really don't feel like having in depth conversation about why the US went off the gold standard in the 30s because there is no 1 exact reason. Some of the reasons you say were right, especially during the Great Depression but there is a financial aspect you are ignoring.

As for the socialist revolution, there are many reasons why it will continue to fail in all forms of inception. The main one is that implies everyone is like-minded aka brainwashed. There will always be people that try and exploit a system for personal gain.

I'll let my favorite capitalist, Mr. Gordon Gekko explain the rest for me.

 
being open to new ideas is vital especially for a college student or anyone wishing to expand their mind. ..|

critical evaluation has to be part of that, though.

I have noticed as well that people often read one sentence even, and focus on it completely.:confused:

back to your topic...

you seem to have a fascination with socialism, communism, and marxism. what led you to that area of personal investigation, and where are you getting your information from?

I don't feel I'm fascinated with different societal structures, more just concerned on the REAL issues at hand. People come here for the truth. People are whining about illegals, money, war, discrimination, what's on the news, (even though the news tells the public 2% of the big picture) and sometimes I feel tears inside when I see people operate like zoo animals at times.

I don't see why we can't just love each other to just share the land and live where we wish especially if it will make us happier or bring us closer to those we care about. Have you asked yourself why are borders even necessary in the first place? We as Americans are made to believe in this "Make-Believe" news that is so trivial yet its so ingrained into us that we waste our energy being angry and upset over absolutely nothing.

I grew up in a democratic home (The democratic party structure fully believes in Capitalism the only difference is that there is regulation to assure the business world is more fair and that more needs of the people are met) where my family felt somewhat confused on life and where they stood in society. I believed much of what was ingrained into me as a child. To keep myself sane, I would go to the public library and just read to feel like I had friends or people who understood me. At age 8 I was angry I couldn't check books out from the adult section lol wow memories. But thankfully I was allowed to read them there.

I learned to look around me and see that the majority of the people in society are depressed in one way or another and that people fully don't know how to communicate with each other in a civil and healthy way.

I also met other socialists over time that inspired me seeing as how gentle and kind they were towards each other even if they didn't believe in being controlled by Capitalism or religion. I started to become fascinated with the idea that people can really look past the negative traits in a person and love them for the good thats inside. (There were Capitalists during the time of Feudalism just like there are Socialists now.)

I saw how poor people are unhappy and give in to these million dollar advertising companies and watched how people became zombies with materialistic items like game systems or iPhones. Yet these items were just a way to make more money, sedate the public (nobody really socializes with each other like they should sadly.) When people "Sell" a product it usually comes in a box which I feel is so wasteful because it will just end up in a landfill. If items weren't SOLD, there wouldn't be all this waste. And half the shit that is purchased.. are things we don't really need and its just wasting resources. We are TAUGHT they make life enjoyable because we are depressed and not happy with ourselves and each other. People that can't TRULY socialize as a human being and connect outside of themselves, resort to material items because they are somewhat handicapped mentally.

I've learned about theories on how the government regulates the drug trade to sedate the public (to keep them from revolting) and then put citizens in jail for getting high even if they are good people. I started seeing just how crazy and fucked up the world is growing up and how things just didn't make sense. I started to question well WHY are things this way? I didn't want to give myself some lame repeated garbage like "Well that's just the way things are." I'm sorry, I didn't wanna be stupid my whole life. If I am living on this earth and seeing poverty in the majority of people, I don't want some bullshit answer I wanna know why people can't be upfront and just challenge what they've been taught. I feel its laziness and selfishness.

I am reading this great book right now called American Theocracy by Kevin Phillips. Its available on Amazon.com and I think its worth everyone's time to read this book. :D

By the way, when you read you will realize there are over 10 different interpretations to what Socialism, Feudalism, Capitalism, or Communism means. There are different interpretations then the original Marx view AND the Soviet View. You will be surprised just how some things become so crazily distorted and feared. ;)

As I'm growing older now, I see Capitalism everywhere I go and sometimes it makes me cry.

I went into a cheap fast food joint with my boyfriend two weeks ago and I could see Capitalism in the advertisements that tempt people to consume bad foods or promote unhealthy habits for profit. You will start to see just how cruel people can be just to make a buck even if it means using artificial chemicals that cause major health problems. Cigarettes is a great example of Capitalism. It doesn't benefit society, but it makes billions upon billions of dollars, and causes society to blow BILLIONS on health care costs. Then the insurance companies play with people's lives and drop them if they get too sick or raise premiums to make more money. You see the evil I'm talking about?
 
It sounds like someone is trying to understand the concept of fiat money but is beating around the bushes. I really don't feel like having in depth conversation about why the US went off the gold standard in the 30s because there is no 1 exact reason. Some of the reasons you say were right, especially during the Great Depression but there is a financial aspect you are ignoring.

As for the socialist revolution, there are many reasons why it will continue to fail in all forms of inception. The main one is that implies everyone is like-minded aka brainwashed. There will always be people that try and exploit a system for personal gain.

I'll let my favorite capitalist, Mr. Gordon Gekko explain the rest for me.


That video actually made me feel sad and horrified that someone could think like that. I feel sorry for him really. Poor thing was probably not taught healthy social values.

BTW what socialist revolution are you talking about? You didn't read anything I said word for word.

Your view that someone will always exploit a system for person grain is a belief that is ingrained into you BECAUSE you live in that type of system. Capitalism is ABOUT exploiting others for personal gain.

What is more disgusting is that people are actually believing that humans are naturally greedy or cruel. Humans are capable of something MUCH greater. You live in the past so of course you can't see that. You are looking only within yourself and your own point in time.
 
Before I continue, I wanna assure you I am not a communist :)

I've read everything you've written twice, (*8*) and I can understand why you feel strongly about your opinion. :kiss:

Sometimes as human beings we need to be humble and intellectual enough to look outside the present time. We need to see ourselves as one person that is just a part of history. For example society before Capitalism had no idea what the future would hold. The system of feudalism was a way of life for a very long time before people started thinking outside the box. Feudalism over time taught people how to communicate with each other to get their needs met even if they were being taken advantage of by the system. Money still existed during a time of feudalism, but money wasn't the main product of the system itself. The main product was a system of trading and getting needs back in exchange.

Capitalism gave people a sense of freedom and with that freedom people expanded their ideas. But for Capitalism to happen, we needed an oppressive system of feudalism to allow countless generations to fight back over time. We learned from our mistakes and made a great step forward with Capitalism.

With the industrial revolution taking full effect in the United states, feudalism started to fade out as people realized they could have a better life. Capitalism was a huge step up for society's development. :D People who were tied to the land they were living on were oppressed in many ways that we are today and in some different ways. To keep power control many Feudal Lords struggled hard to keep the system in tact but over time the people got smarter and wanted a sense of more freedom, self-esteem, and independence. But before that, change wasn't so easy because people were misinformed because their psychology was poisoned by a young and immature society that was very mismanaged. Think of society from past to future as a human life. We need mistakes to learn and grow. Without mistakes, we would not be who we are today. If we made no mistakes, we would stay in a child-like mental state and never have our eyes opened.

Now over time Capitalism brought many great changes to the world in terms of things that helped us gain a greater intellect, technological development, and a sense of being. Seeing as how we are still at an early point in history, we can not imagine just how Capitalism will fall or how society will eventually realize something better IS possible.

It will be beyond our lifetime that capitalism should collapse seeing as how Feudalism was around for for thousands of years. But all we can do in the meantime is be better people and not allow the poison of Capitalism to destroy our human civility. ;) We can teach our kids and younger generations what it means to really love someone as a precious human being. The many generations of feudalism that worked to make society move forward after a difficult struggle should be appreciated because they built our future. We should start building a better future as well so that the next stage of society will appreciate everything we've done for them hundreds or thousands of years from now.

Joseph Stalin failed to realize that you just can't IMPLEMENT communism or immediately expect society to just agree to change especially when there is a world war going on and a power struggle. Joseph Stalin had NO clue about anything Marx had intended about the natural process of society's development. Another mistake was the Vanguard party which was to "lead the people's thinking" which is a huge contradiction to communism seeing that Capitalism has political parties to tell people how to think. We should be thinking for ourselves so that we can experience just how much we are capable of with our potential. The only similarity between Karl Marx and Joseph Stalin was the term "Communism" itself. But both were 100% complete opposites. Just like "Sun" or "Son". Marx envisioned a world with just one state and no country so that all the resources could be shared as a huge community with technology that is BEYOND our imagination because we haven't even reached that point in time yet. People are often misinformed that communism is about "Rationing" :rolleyes: or everyone just "Getting the same as everyone else."

Your facts are correct about Soviet "Communism" and I'm happy you are open-minded to see that piece of information. :-) The people were still working to make a huge profit for one main Capitalist/dictator, the government that owned and controlled everything. The people should always have control over their lives in order to be their true happy self. The GOP's interpretation of government control is just motivated by false propaganda and selfishness because they don't want the government to regulate unfair business practices. The GOP complain that the liberals are against America and the people yet they contradict themselves numerous times and use whatever buzz words like "Socialism" to strike terror into people. (There are different forms of socialism, so the GOP distorts facts to make it seem as if Hitler's "National Socialism" is the same as Marx/Socialism. Two completely different worlds. ..|) The GOP hates the government control only because they have the mentality, "Stay the fuck outta the business man's way" and they play the victim as if they are just like normal people struggling and then turn the public against itself. People start fighting and they don't even know why. :cry:

If you study history you will see how many things are being repeated due to ignorance. ;)

Can I ask where you obtained the belief that Capitalism is being overthrown right now? We are going through a recession and alot of what is going on now has been done in history before. Money that is being spent is a sign that Capitalism is very alive and well. :p The citizens are just mentally ill from being brainwashed.

I understand your confusion fully on how resources will be used by a social society. :-) I understand the concepts on how these distortions and these psychological robotic-responses/beliefs have come into play. Things wouldn't need a money value or need to be counted because they wouldn't be getting sold. The whole work ethics that we see now would be so different that we can't imagine it because we aren't there yet. People constantly want everything NOW in this society due to impatience and if they can't have it right away, it must be no good or not worth the wait/fight.

Because we are so dependent on the system we live in now that can't just be changed with the flip of a switch, it is SO hard for us to imagine a society being less selfish as time moves on. All we can do is live our lives and be humble enough to say we are just another small tiny fraction of history. ..|

Once you understand everything I've been talking about, you will really feel liberated and happier with yourself. :) I feel like a happier person. I love knowing I can love a complete stranger and see people as another human being with thoughts and feelings. I couldn't hurt a person for any amount of money. Human life is too beautiful for something so meaningless.

Problems ARE being repeated. People continue to cling to the lie that is communism, socialism, and marxism. It doesn't work, hasn't worked, and will never work. It simply is not possible as long as human beings are involved.

Kris I want to recommend something to you. You won't like it, but I'm asking you to do it because I think it might do you some good. Expanding your horizons is all well and good, but your posts over the last year or so indicate that you are limiting yourself to reading material that fits into your narrow world view. (capitalism is evil, socialism is good, and so on) The only way for you to become truly educated, or truly well-versed, in both systems is to read extensively on BOTH. You do yourself a disservice by limiting your reading in that way. To actually expand your horizons, you must read that material with an open mind, and open yourself to the possibility that what you might currently know is not the whole story, or entirely truthful. This is the only way for the ideas you're already familiar with to be fully parsed, for you to fully understand what is going on in the world around you.
 
That video actually made me feel sad and horrified that someone could think like that. I feel sorry for him really. Poor thing was probably not taught healthy social values.

BTW what socialist revolution are you talking about? You didn't read anything I said word for word.

Your view that someone will always exploit a system for person grain is a belief that is ingrained into you BECAUSE you live in that type of system. Capitalism is ABOUT exploiting others for personal gain.

What is more disgusting is that people are actually believing that humans are naturally greedy or cruel. Humans are capable of something MUCH greater. You live in the past so of course you can't see that. You are looking only within yourself and your own point in time.
First of all Kris insults do not belong in your arguments. You know better.

Secondly, to put it quite bluntly, humans ARE greedy. Anyone that argues otherwise ignores human nature from the beginning of recorded history to the present day. It is nothing specific to capitalism, and nothing that anyone can legitimately argue is relegated to that system.
 
I wouldn't say advertisement is a complete waste on resources; advertising pretty much pays for shows on tv and a lot of sites on the internet.
 
Problems ARE being repeated. People continue to cling to the lie that is communism, socialism, and marxism. It doesn't work, hasn't worked, and will never work. It simply is not possible as long as human beings are involved.

Kris I want to recommend something to you. You won't like it, but I'm asking you to do it because I think it might do you some good. Expanding your horizons is all well and good, but your posts over the last year or so indicate that you are limiting yourself to reading material that fits into your narrow world view. (capitalism is evil, socialism is good, and so on) The only way for you to become truly educated, or truly well-versed, in both systems is to read extensively on BOTH. You do yourself a disservice by limiting your reading in that way. To actually expand your horizons, you must read that material with an open mind, and open yourself to the possibility that what you might currently know is not the whole story, or entirely truthful. This is the only way for the ideas you're already familiar with to be fully parsed, for you to fully understand what is going on in the world around you.

I greatly appreciate your advice and I can tell your heart is clearly in the right place :kiss: However I understand Capitalism and have read more then just two sides. It doesn't matter how old or young I am. I've expanded my horizons and that is how I have come to the conclusion I have now. Socialism and both communism have never been experienced. That is a solid fact. Do You Know the difference between Communism and Socialism? How about Feudalism?

With all due respect sir, from your response to my post and seeing how you worded your response, why do I have the feeling you never read my posts word for word? Correct me if I'm wrong. Capitalism is what is taught around the world and I have learned to liberate myself from that way of thinking. I know socialists more then twice my age this is something I've thought about for years, believe me.

Better yet, how did you learn to understand your own definition of socialism and your definition of Communism? There is a HUGE difference between the two. Both have never been experienced by mankind. How many forms of socialism have you been informed about since there are more then one kind of Socialism.
 
I'm going to touch on two bits of confusion that are indicative of confusion in your thought:

1. Racism/bourgeoisie

You confuse the well-to-do with those who are white.


2. Waste

Wast doesn't result from sales, it results from production and packaging. It doesn't matter what your economic system is; if you produce things there is waste, and if you transport them there is waste. There is more waste when packaging is designed to sell things, but it doesn't take any departure from capitalism to deal with that -- in fact, with the emerging "anything to oil" technology, that packaging can be a resource.


Other than that, our trouble right now is not capitalism, but government interference that is pushing us toward economic feudalism. You're right to an extent on the origin of that, but it's not just the Republicans -- all the national politicians are friends of the great corporations; they just 'feed' them from different ends: Democrats regulate to strangle small business and drive jobs overseas, Republicans grant favorable status to large corporations directly (though of course so do many Democrats).

The trend is toward large corporations becoming the centers of power, with nations virtually irrelevant, and everyone either employee, client, or "consumer" of the large corporations. National capitals will become merely tools of the corporations.

What is needed at this point isn't less capitalism, per se, but a freer market: regulations to favor small businesses (which are BTW far more friendly) and reign in huge ones. Just as an example, my credit union, in considering a loan, used to have an interview so a person could try to demonstrate the ability to make payment; now they just input numbers and the person is irrelevant. Of course the same is true in government; regulations need to favor the little guy, but the bigger government gets, the more they "manage" people and don't care about helping, or whether they hurt people (e.g. regulations where I am favor those with incomes of $50k/yr+, and serve to drive others toward homelessness).

Your desire to see people care is admirable. Neither major party is interested in helping that at present, though.
 
I greatly appreciate your advice and I can tell your heart is clearly in the right place :kiss: However I understand Capitalism and have read more then just two sides. It doesn't matter how old or young I am. I've expanded my horizons and that is how I have come to the conclusion I have now. Socialism and both communism have never been experienced. That is a solid fact. Do You Know the difference between Communism and Socialism? How about Feudalism?

With all due respect sir, from your response to my post and seeing how you worded your response, why do I have the feeling you never read my posts word for word? Correct me if I'm wrong. Capitalism is what is taught around the world and I have learned to liberate myself from that way of thinking. I know socialists more then twice my age this is something I've thought about for years, believe me.

Better yet, how did you learn to understand your own definition of socialism and your definition of Communism? There is a HUGE difference between the two. Both have never been experienced by mankind. How many forms of socialism have you been informed about since there are more then one kind of Socialism.

I read your posts. I also know the difference between socialism and capitalism. Your previous posts, and this post, show that you unfortunately do not. (as evidenced by the fact that you maintain, to this day, that socialism and communism have never been experienced. That is factually incorrect, and you have been corrected on that fact, but still maintain your ignorance) I learned my definition by reading the writings of the men that originated many of those ideas. I don't read second-hand accounts of those writings because they're useless; I don't care what someone else thinks about the ideas. What I care about is the ideas themselves.

What I see from you is a reflexive reaction wherein, instead of addressing other people's ideas, you attack, and attack, and attack. Questions in response to questions, instead of answers, seems to be your MO.

Look, there's nothing wrong with expanding your horizons and finding where you stand on the issues. But what I cannot stand is when someone is so willfully ignorant that they dismiss out of hand anything contrary to their positions and instead resort to attacking that person as 'living in the past'. Neither yours nor anyone else's positions regarding capitalism and socialism are 'wrong' per se, and it would serve you well to get that into your head. By disparaging those that disagree with you, and disparaging their system of beliefs, you undermine any and all legitimate points you might have.
 
I read your posts. I also know the difference between socialism and capitalism. Your previous posts, and this post, show that you unfortunately do not. (as evidenced by the fact that you maintain, to this day, that socialism and communism have never been experienced. That is factually incorrect, and you have been corrected on that fact, but still maintain your ignorance) I learned my definition by reading the writings of the men that originated many of those ideas. I don't read second-hand accounts of those writings because they're useless; I don't care what someone else thinks about the ideas. What I care about is the ideas themselves.

What I see from you is a reflexive reaction wherein, instead of addressing other people's ideas, you attack, and attack, and attack. Questions in response to questions, instead of answers, seems to be your MO.

Look, there's nothing wrong with expanding your horizons and finding where you stand on the issues. But what I cannot stand is when someone is so willfully ignorant that they dismiss out of hand anything contrary to their positions and instead resort to attacking that person as 'living in the past'. Neither yours nor anyone else's positions regarding capitalism and socialism are 'wrong' per se, and it would serve you well to get that into your head. By disparaging those that disagree with you, and disparaging their system of beliefs, you undermine any and all legitimate points you might have.

With all due respect,
can I be entitled to my opinion? You are telling me that I am wrong. I am leaving my opinion open to interpretation and I still believe it. I respect yours, but you claim all I am doing is attacking yet I have been very calm.

The fact that socialism and communism have not been experienced IS an obvious fact unless we are talking about two different interpretations. Where in history has socialism been lived and where has communism been experienced? Really when were all nations combined as one? These things are not political systems planned or free. They are natural process which is what people don't understand about marx. Why are you insistent that I am wrong? I never said you are.. but I know certain facts that are gathered from multiple sources and books over the years. Everything I have read in American text books however is a whole different ball game and is a slap in the face to anything Marx ever talked of.

All of Marx's principals were thrown out the door before the Soviet Union was even formed.

What things do Marx's view of socialism/communism had ANYTHING to do with history?
 
I'm going to touch on two bits of confusion that are indicative of confusion in your thought:

1. Racism/bourgeoisie

You confuse the well-to-do with those who are white.


2. Waste

Wast doesn't result from sales, it results from production and packaging. It doesn't matter what your economic system is; if you produce things there is waste, and if you transport them there is waste. There is more waste when packaging is designed to sell things, but it doesn't take any departure from capitalism to deal with that -- in fact, with the emerging "anything to oil" technology, that packaging can be a resource.


Other than that, our trouble right now is not capitalism, but government interference that is pushing us toward economic feudalism. You're right to an extent on the origin of that, but it's not just the Republicans -- all the national politicians are friends of the great corporations; they just 'feed' them from different ends: Democrats regulate to strangle small business and drive jobs overseas, Republicans grant favorable status to large corporations directly (though of course so do many Democrats).

The trend is toward large corporations becoming the centers of power, with nations virtually irrelevant, and everyone either employee, client, or "consumer" of the large corporations. National capitals will become merely tools of the corporations.

What is needed at this point isn't less capitalism, per se, but a freer market: regulations to favor small businesses (which are BTW far more friendly) and reign in huge ones. Just as an example, my credit union, in considering a loan, used to have an interview so a person could try to demonstrate the ability to make payment; now they just input numbers and the person is irrelevant. Of course the same is true in government; regulations need to favor the little guy, but the bigger government gets, the more they "manage" people and don't care about helping, or whether they hurt people (e.g. regulations where I am favor those with incomes of $50k/yr+, and serve to drive others toward homelessness).

Your desire to see people care is admirable. Neither major party is interested in helping that at present, though.

1. I never said only the white people are the well to do.... I'm looking at American Culture.

2.I think we are in two different worlds or have grabbed a certain perspective of the issues based on our own sources. I would never trust something I learned if it came out of an American text book whether its college or High School because those interpretations of communism will always be wrong. What Stalin attempted was a whole different idea. He read about Marxism for 5 minutes, and understood only about 1% of what was read.

3.I think this will always be a controversial issue sadly and people will always resort back to the thought of the Soviet Union and will never allow themselves to shake that idea out of their heads because that is all they know.
 
Let me add just a little refinement to what JB3 is saying. Now I don't want to say too much. He and I are on opposite sides of the political fence. I don't mean to just gloss over that fact. But the same approach in research is necessary no matter what side of which fence you're on.

I think it's important not just to read explanations of different theories. It's just as important, maybe even more important, to read opposing critiques--critiques of each side by the other(s). It's worth seeing what weaknesses in communism the socialists are trying to avoid and what they are protecting, what weaknesses in socialism the capitalists are seeking to avoid in socialism and what they're protecting, and so on.

Once you've seen that, then perhaps you'll find a way to reformulate and develop a more refined approach seeking to preserve some of the things that others value that you might not have seen as important before.

Frankly, I haven't seen a whole lot of evidence of that in these several threads that seem (at least to me) to cover much the same ground.
 
Let me just ask a question. Perhaps it's dumb, but suffer me. What contribution did Lenin make to the development of Marxist thought?
 
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