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Man gets 30 days jail time for having sex with a 14 year old...

Wouldn't that depend on the extra cost in time and money? Courts get backlogged because there is so much of this having to go back and redo. If it was just done right the first round we could better house/feed the homeless thereby cutting down on crime, thereby cutting the growing backlog of criminal justice. Of course we'd need fewer judges, and they wouldn't preside of as many cases.... Their pay would definitely take a cut. Bingo, we've found the source...... Job Security, as long as they can get away with it.

What was it Thoreau said? "Simplify, simplify, simplify". It does work.
 
To me, it wouldn't matter if the young girl had been a prostitute on the street. The teacher should not have done what he did. The judgment is supposed to be on his behavior, not hers.

The judge should be sent to prison for 30 days and see if he comes out with a different view on rape.
 
To me, it wouldn't matter if the young girl had been a prostitute on the street. The teacher should not have done what he did. The judgment is supposed to be on his behavior, not hers.

The judge should be sent to prison for 30 days and see if he comes out with a different view on rape.

I agree and it doesn't surprise me to see rape enthusiasts replying and making excuses for the actual guilty party.
 
For those not reading the article, the girl killed herself in 2010 at the age of 16, but there is no context given for that. Her mother was outraged at the sentencing hearing and stated, ""Obviously, a 14-year-old can't consent. "

Several things.

There are separate terms for people who predate on children, pre-pubescent in form. That is pedophilia. They are therefore child-molesters.

In the West, and in some other parts of the world, we have protracted adulthood to extend to 18 or 21, with no mental or biological or sexual marker that is the divide between "youth" and "adulthood." In fact, the legality or "majority" change in a person's status is the only real signal. In that process, we have protracted the definition of childhood into youth, a new concept in human history.

To make matters worse, we live in a culture of denial about aging. We have "boys" like Cupidboy here and others who promulgate some artificial divide for men in their 30's and 40's, referring to them as "eldgergays," and in so doing, perfectly embody the forces that are at work that contribute to an exaggerated definition of youth into the late 20's. Much of that notion is based on sexuality.

But it is not exclusively a gay pattern. Straights also fight to maintain a false definition of youth. "It's all in your mind," and "40 is the new 30." Health is one thing. Open mindedness and a change mentality is what it is. Youth, however, is age.

We have a term for those who date sexually active but not legally responsible gay youth: pederasts. In the straight world (as well as gay), it simply falls under "statutory rape" when consensual. That doesn't make it less taboo or more acceptable, but the two crimes are not the same in many cases.

Pedophiles could only be having sex by either manipulation or coercion in 100% of cases. Pederasts and statutory rapists may many times be responding to solicitation or seduction by the younger and sexually active partner. No, not in all cases, and maybe not in the majority of cases, but there is a reason why the courts evolved the charge of Statutory Rape: they recognize some culpability on the part of the adolescent individual, and consider it in varying degree in prosecutions. Sentencing is affected by it.

In this case, we don't have the information that speaks to whether the student or the teacher initiated the contact. We don't like the think of a teenager being anything but innocent, but we all know that there are individuals who are the exceptions. The article hints at this with referring to her as "troubled," but as a minor, her records are sealed.

Regardless, the teacher is culpable and responsible because of locus parentis which is a long established legal precedent.

I simply don't believe the judge is some creep. There is likely something in the history of the girl's behavior that is a big mitigation, else the sentence wouldn't have been watered down so. Was she already prostituting, having affairs with other adult men, or whatever, but I simply don't believe a judge winked at a teacher/student affair without some hugely obvious factor that we are not hearing about because she was a minor.

Her mother has the additional psychological problem of the girl's suicide, which may be complicating matters if the mother somehow did something that is creating guilt or denial by the mother (e.g., a mother may have thought herself "progressive" in allowing drug experimentation but later regretted it after her kid OD's on heroine.)

As usual, we just have a sound bite. It sounds black and white, but unlike the "Messiah" baby naming judge, this isn't clearly a miscarriage of justice to me. We need to know what the judge knew that caused him to put so much weight on the girl's role.

I hope this thread is revived after the state bar has reviewed this ruling.

This all sounds logical..... until to take into account the fact that around the age of 14 human teen bodies are going through some serious hormonal upheaval. They don't really have intellectual control over many of the choices they make, especially those of a sexual nature. Hence the "unable to consent" ideology. A teacher should know this. He played on her "budding womanhood" and got what he wanted. She got humiliated and as it dragged through the courts she apparently could no longer live with it and committed suicide. Those are the facts, case closed. Why is it people are always trying to step in after the fact and insist the victim "wanted it"? If she had wanted it she wouldn't have killed herself over it. #-o
 
Can we assume you will be running alongside other giants of logic and inflammatory rhetoric such as Sarah Palin?

I could say that to you actually, considering you said that she could have been a prostitute. As if her being a prostitute or being "troubled" is any excuse for the male in this situation. You're making an argument that it is in some way her fault, when it is not. Whether she initiated anything or proposed anything, the fault of the party is of the adult who proceeded to fuck an under age girl, he knew better but he took advantage.

The Judges logic that she was mature enough the make this decision and proceed in engaging in sex with this older man is also faulty. If she is that mature then why isn't the older man in this situation mature enough to understand that it is wrong to have sex with a 14 year old girl and that it is against the law?

If you don't like that what I said that is your problem, there is no reason in attempting to have a conversation or talking any sort of "logic" to a person who is going to point fingers at the rape victim. Maybe the person who committed the crime should take some responsibility.
 
As stated, the teacher is unquestionably culpable. The degree is the question, which the judge ruled on. Why anyone reading the article would assume that a judge on the bench would be soft on actual rape is baffling.
Consider that during the trial she did in fact commit suicide. That fact is clearly in the article. At fourteen she may have thought he was cute. What 14 year old doesn't form a crush on a teacher at one point or another? This does not mean that they want to have sex, is doesn't mean they should have sex. It only means they are at a vulnerable developmental stage in life (too much data on that to repeat it here). That is the whole point of statutory rape. It concedes that the victim in question may have appeared willing at first, and may continue to appear willing. The point is that the victim is in no state to be able to effectively choose. That culprit was a teacher makes it more grievous as he is in a position of authority over the student, making it even harder for the student to say no. Kids are taught to be respect and obey the teachers. There is a level of trust implied with the position.

What could it possibly gain the judge? Is he presumed to be a sudden moron, a woman hater, or just plain evil?
He sure comes across as a moron in defending his position, no presumption necessary. Whether it is sudden or not remains to be seen. As for being a woman hater..... It is quite possible, why do you suggest it? Do you know something more about this judge? As for being just plain evil? I don't know..... He seems to fit better into the moron field.

It is unfathomable.
What is? That morons can be placed in positions of authority and power? Look at some of the US presidents that have been in office..... 'nuff said. Or do you feel it is unfathomable that a male judge can be sexist? That is just moronic. Maybe you think one appointed to the bench could in no way be evil..... An evil little man once ruled all of Germany and committed many attrocities, no reason a lesser position of power couldn't draw the attention of a lesser evil.


Again, what is the source of this "fact"? It is certainly possible, but it is also possible that she committed suicide from some other affair from a teen pregnancy, from mental instability, from her "troubled" past as the article referred to it, including the possibility that she felt some sort of guilt if she encouraged the affair.
Interesting that the ONLY source we have to suggest she had any form of "troubled past" is the judge himself....... And HE didn't even give any indication of what that so-called troubled past was. Was it trouble caused from her acting out after the rape? Was it caused by a previous rape she endured at the hands of another (or continued abuse by the teacher) ? Or, as there was no mention of a father figure, was her "troubled past" issues stemming from possible death of her father? Any of these situations could very easily made her "act much older than her age".


I readily admit that your scenario is not only possible, but perhaps likely, but if known in that community, the judge's sentence makes even less sense.
Now you get the point. The only way this makes any sense is if he is lenient toward pedophiles/child molesters. Or if he buys into the "she was asking for it, even as her lips said no she was still saying yes" mentality. You can try and defend the man all you want and say there must be some other reason, but there is nothing. At least nothing that fits with the facts as presented. Even if the girl's "troubled past" was promiscuity..... that would only suggest prior abuse making her more susceptible to his control at her age.


If you are writing a novel, perhaps they might be there, but this is reality, and you don't get the convenience of third-person omniscience. There are things the Court knows that you and I and the internet do not know.


Unfortunately, deductive reasoning is not adequate to explain human behavior. Humans do things for reasons that are hidden from the passerby, and sometimes, even hidden from their closest family or friends. To presume you know what you suppose, is the greatest folly and should be kept far away from judicial decisions.

Further, you suggest that she was coerced or abused. That is not at all necessary in statutory rape cases. You are using "rape" in a limited meaning, one that applies to the normal rape cases we encounter between adults. Remember that statutory rape can be upheld in cases where a girl (or guy) might lie about his age and even elope and be enthusiastically pursuing the partnering. Rape is still a valid charge in court if the state in which it occurs deems the age of the younger partner to be under the age of consent. This could and does happen in cases in which the elder partner may be 21 and the younger only a few years below.

None of this is to suggest that the teacher didn't groom, coerce, or manipulate the girl. But, if you follow that reasoning, you must then explain the highly illogical conclusion that the same evidence was put before the judge and he capriciously and maliciously swept it away, with a grieving mother of the deceased before him, and effectively let a rapist walk. Why would he? That is much more illogical than any cautious handling of the statutory rape scenarios I have proffered.[/QUOTE]
 
Consider that during the trial she did in fact commit suicide. That fact is clearly in the article.
. . . . .

As far as I can tell, no, that 'fact' is not 'clearly in the article'.

It appears the rape took place in 2008, and while the case was still pending in 2010, the girl took her life. The case had not yet gone to trial.

The article doesn't say why the case was pending, but being a 'statutory rape', I'd guess that criminal charges had yet to have been filed. Perhaps the girl's parent(s) had only recently found out about the rape in 2010.
 
BTW, if charges were still pending when the girl committed suicide, her parent's(s') actions/reaction may have been more of a factor/cause for her going off the deep end than anything or anyone else.

If the girl was, as the article implies, sexually active, there may have been other males involved that might have complicated/aggravated/strained relations inside the family - a relationship between daughter and a step-father is not uncommon - and watch all hell break loose when the mother finds out.

But all of this is speculation, of course. It's not likely any of us will ever know what actually happened.
 
As far as I can tell, no, that 'fact' is not 'clearly in the article'.

Moralez killed herself in 2010 at age 16 while the case was pending.

It appears the rape took place in 2008, and while the case was still pending in 2010, the girl took her life. The case had not yet gone to trial.[/quote]

Did you read this:
Moralez's death complicated the case, Baugh said. The prosecution and defense reached an agreement after her death that Rambold would enter sexual-offender treatment.
Apparently both the prosecution and defense realized the seriousness of her suicide when it happened. And by the sound of it the trial was already under way. Her death appears to have caused the defense to seek a plea bargain, which they apparently got. But the asshole couldn't even handle to abide by those rules.

The article doesn't say why the case was pending, but being a 'statutory rape', I'd guess that criminal charges had yet to have been filed. Perhaps the girl's parent(s) had only recently found out about the rape in 2010.
And the girl's "troubled past" was likely the behavior that stemmed from the rape and finally brought it out into the open.

District Judge G. Todd Baugh handed down the sentence Monday after former Billings Senior High School teacher Stacey Rambold, 54, was terminated from a sexual offender treatment program that was part of a deal to have his prosecution deferred.
So he failed to do his part to have the 10 year sentence deferred...... And it still gets deferred?



The judge said he wasn't convinced that the reasons for Rambold's termination from the program were serious enough to warrant a 10-year prison term recommended by prosecutors.

But the original crime, the rape was. The treatment was just apart of what he needed to do for a deferred sentence, and he failed. 1) he had unsupervised contact with children and, 2) he did not inform counselors that he had been having sexual relations with a woman.

And because his choices were against the program he failed. The 10 year sentence should not have been deferred.

In handing down the sentence, Baugh also said Cherice Moralez was "older than her chronological age" and "as much in control of the situation" as the teacher.
She was 14, she was not in control of the teacher's actions. What did she do? Write him love poems under some schoolgirl crush? How many 14 year old girls have done that throughout the history of high school...... Far too many to count, but none of them was "older than her chronological age". Or maybe she confided her crush in her school friends? Or wrote it in her diary?

Or she was raped and the teacher got other girls up on the stand to claim she was responsible and kept pushing herself on him, maybe even had some of them claim to have "witnessed" such things, or to have heard her brag about how she had him wrapped around her little finger.... But no, a teacher wouldn't ever do that, nor would he ever rape a student..... Oh wait, he did..... The judge even acknowledges that fact. The crime was straight up rape, the punishment set at 10 years, but that was deferred as part of a plea agreement, which the rapist failed to follow through with.


So, to sum things up: The teacher refused to follow the rule to not have sexual interaction with a minor, in this case the 14 year old victim. He was tried and sentenced, but the sentence was withheld as part of an agreement that he get sex offender treatment. He refused to follow the rules of the treatment and was thrown out of the program......

AND the judge still thinks he should be lenient with this asshole? I think they should both be drawn and quartered.
 
. . . . .

Did you read this:

. . . . .

. . . . And by the sound of it the trial was already under way. . . . .


I guess you don't understand the difference between a ''pending case" and a "trial".

And, the rest of your speculations about what happened after the girl's suicide have little to nothing at all to do with my posts.
 
I have tried to keep myself from replying to this post, but, here goes.
The guy broke the law, he was not a pedophile, it was statutory rape not the rape we might picture in our minds when we hear the word.
There are 3 states where the age of consent is 14.
Even if this had happened in one of those states it would still be wrong because this guy was a teacher and held authority over this girl.
Just a little trivia, Edgar Allen Poe married his 13 yr. old 1st cousin back around 1830, it was not uncommon for young teen girls to marry back then. This does not make it right, it points to societal "norms" changing.
Today we are outraged over what has happened in the church between priests and alter boys, we are angry about Penn. State and have a chip on our shoulder about protecting the youth from predators, it shows when this kind of story appears.
I have seen posts where a guy is called a pedo if he likes twinks that look young, even if they are 18.
This teacher was not acting as a pedophile, the girl was past entering puberty, he was a predator even if she tempted him first.
The sentence in my opinion was not right, but 10 years as I have seen some call for seems severe, maybe 2 or 3 years, time to think about his actions.
 
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