Marine Commandant: Gays could cause additional military deaths

[hotatlboi]

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/checkpoint-washington/2010/12/marine_general_repeal_of_dont.html

Holy fuck is this the bigots last gasp or what?

I don't even know what to say to this.

So disgusting.

Obama needs to tell this guy to STFU.

 

[Seasoned]

I'd like to know why he was appointed this past September. Who conducted that interview?

 

[rareboy]

And his is one of the only voices that the bigoted and opportunistic Republicans will listen to while shutting everyone else's voice out.

Just pray he never becomes more powerful than he is right now.

Nice message to all the men and women serving in the marines right now.

He makes the US look so ridiculously backward. And ironically he and the other homophobes make the US forces appear weaker by refusing to allow homos to serve openly in the forces. The Us would look way more powerful and confident if it made it clear to the countries it is invading that even the homos in America aren't afraid to kick ass while serving their country.

 

[chrisrobin]

Whatever happened to the Uniform Code of Military Justice?

Amos has disregarded:
1. The Joint Chiefs of Staff
2. The Secretary of Defense
3. The Commander-in Chief of the Armed Forces

He should be fired, or at least learn the meaning of "yes, sir."

 

[kallipolis]

The history of ancient Greece passionately disproves the rather ignorant comments of this Marine Corps, general who would appear to speak out of his anus, in appealing to those who view the homosexual soldier as the theatrical stereotype, typified as outrageous, neurotic, feminine and consequently unsuitable for war fare.

I am sure that the very queer Alexander the Great would have given this Marine Corps, general a few lessons in battle tactics that would have ensured victory in Afghanistan.

The ancient Greek city of Thebes offers us an example that the general might wish to study, in order to appreciate that queers are as likely to succeed in battle, as are those who are much less queer about their sexual habits.

I quote from a Wikipedia source, for ease, and simplicity:

The Sacred Band of Thebes (even today, a Greek Army, Commando Forces, battalion proudly wears this name on its shoulder flash) in recognition of the heroic status accorded to this force of courageous soldiers of ancient Greece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

I quote:

Plutarch records that the Sacred Band was made up of male couples, the rationale being that lovers could fight more fiercely and cohesively than strangers with no ardent bonds. According to Plutarch's Life of Pelopidas[2], the inspiration for the Band's formation came from Plato's Symposium, wherein the character Phaedrus remarks,

And if there were only some way of contriving that a state or an army should be made up of lovers and their beloved, they would be the very best governors of their own city, abstaining from all dishonour, and emulating one another in honour; and when fighting at each other's side, although a mere handful, they would overcome the world. For what lover would not choose rather to be seen by all mankind than by his beloved, either when abandoning his post or throwing away his arms? He would be ready to die a thousand deaths rather than endure this. Or who would desert his beloved or fail him in the hour of danger?
—[3]

The Sacred Band originally was formed of hand-picked men who were couples, each lover and beloved selected from the ranks of the existing Theban citizen-army. The pairs consisted of the older "heníochoi", or charioteers, and the younger "parabátai", or companions, all housed and trained at the city's expense in order to fight as hoplites.[4] During their early engagements, they were dispersed by Gorgidas throughout the front ranks of the Theban army in an attempt to bolster morale.

 

[rareboy]

You can bet your ass that he won't be fired though. He's untouchable because not only would his dismissal cause a huge political backlash, neither the Dems or Repubs are ready to give up the political capital that the homo issues as wedge represent with their constituencies.

 

[Stardreamer]

The service chiefs are not selected based on their attitude towards homosexuals nor are they expected to be 'yes-men'; such reasoning would be counter productive to their position as spokesman for their respective service. So he is perfectly within his role to express his opinion even if it is the old school. Now that being said if Congress overturns the ban and Obama says to do it; then he is expected to 'STFU', salute and say 'Yes Sir'.

 

[jackoroe]

I think it's a hoot that anybody would argue that a Marine would be so concerned about the possibility of anybody even possibly lusting after him.

These guys eat nails for breakfast and face death everyday with a smile. Do you really mean to tell me that very thought of somebody checking your ass out in the shower is going to destroy unit cohesion?

Please, let's not let the enemy find out! They've been doing it all wrong. Instead of fighting the Marines, just stick your tongue in their ear. Unit cohesion will fall apart and the bad guys will rule the world!

 

[chrisrobin]

The service chiefs are not selected based on their attitude towards homosexuals nor are they expected to be 'yes-men'; such reasoning would be counter productive to their position as spokesman for their respective service. So he is perfectly within his role to express his opinion even if it is the old school.

I respectfully disagree. The service chiefs are selected based on their willingness to follow military protocol. Abiding by the wishes of one's superior does not make him a "yes man" or "old school."

When Gen. Douglas MacArthur thought he could go over President Truman's authority, Truman had no other choice but to fire him.

According to MSNBC when Gen. Stanley McChrystal was fired:
Obama said bluntly that Gen. Stanley McChrystal's scornful remarks about administration officials represent conduct that "undermines the civilian control of the military that is at the core of our democratic system."

He ousted the commander after a face-to-face meeting in the Oval Office and named Petraeus, the Central Command chief, who was McChrystal's direct boss, to step in.

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

I'm all for gays in the service, but does anyone ever think that it might be a double edged sword as well? That it also might be a wet dream for SERIOUS homophobes too? Seeing as how they know who is gay, so they can unleash rage on gay men?

I even remember someone on here saying he knew someone who said he hoped DADT was done away with, so they could ID gay men and shoot them all to death.

Now don't take this the wrong way, I am all for gay men fighting, but the above is also a possible scenario and we are bound to see and hear about some cases of this happening if DADT is kicked down. Homophobes and guns wouldn't mix well I'd imagine.

I suppose you take the good with the bad with everything in life though.

 

[kallipolis]

I'm all for gays in the service, but does anyone ever think that it might be a double edged sword as well? That it also might be a wet dream for SERIOUS homophobes too? Seeing as how they know who is gay, so they can unleash rage on gay men? I even remember someone on here saying he knew someone who said he hoped DADT was done away with, so they could ID gay men and shoot them all to death. Now don't take this the wrong way, I am all for gay men fighting, but the above is also a possible scenario and we are bound to see and hear about some cases of this happening if DADT is kicked down. Homophobes and guns wouldn't mix well I'd imagine.

That this would appear not to be the experience of the armed forces in Canada, and The United Kingdom where gays serve openly, would indicate that your fears are rather an over reaction, and perhaps even a trifle paranoid.

When the generals were rejecting the advice of President Truman to desegregate the United States Armed Forces, he was faced with similar foot dragging arguments, obliging him to issue a presidential executive order.

The generals obeyed their commander in chief. The armed forces did not fall apart, and mayhem did not ensue.

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

I'm honestly glad to hear that it is working relatively well and with few bumps in the road in other places. I pray people here will put their hatreds aside, so the soldiers can do their work and just get the job done, shall we EVER kick down DADT.

 

[jackoroe]

I'm all for gays in the service, but does anyone ever think that it might be a double edged sword as well? That it also might be a wet dream for SERIOUS homophobes too? Seeing as how they know who is gay, so they can unleash rage on gay men?

I even remember someone on here saying he knew someone who said he hoped DADT was done away with, so they could ID gay men and shoot them all to death.

Now don't take this the wrong way, I am all for gay men fighting, but the above is also a possible scenario and we are bound to see and hear about some cases of this happening if DADT is kicked down. Homophobes and guns wouldn't mix well I'd imagine.

I suppose you take the good with the bad with everything in life though.

So, using this logic, we should all keep our sexuality a secret so to stay safe from homophobes? Fuck the homophobes! Let them learn to deal with reality.

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

So, using this logic, we should all keep our sexuality a secret so to stay safe from homophobes? Fuck the homophobes! Let them learn to deal with reality.

As I said, don't take it that way. I just said it was a possibility. I am also hoping/assuming most would be civil and put their hatred aside. That is all I am saying. Also DADT would mean not keeping it a secret and accepting all that it comes along with both good and bad. As I said above, I pray people would be able to put their hatred aside and just help the country out.

 

[SuperPsyze]

I'm sure you can find some Marines who are incredibly uncomfortable serving alongside Vietnamese-American soldiers. Maybe we should tell them to pretend that they're Chinese or Filipino instead.

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

That is why I said you take the good and bad with everything in life. I wasn't saying that gay men shouldn't be able to serve. There is a difference.

 

[jackoroe]

As I said, don't take it that way. I just said it was a possibility. I am also hoping/assuming most would be civil and put their hatred aside. That is all I am saying. Also DADT would mean not keeping it a secret and accepting all that it comes along with both good and bad. As I said above, I pray people would be able to put their hatred aside and just help the country out.

I think you underestimate our brave young soldiers. They really could give a rat's rear end if somebody in their company is gay or not. It's the higher ups that are still a bit uptight. Yes, there are no doubt soldiers who are homophobes just as there are bankers, doctors and lawyers who are. But we have laws that discourage acting on those feelings. It is a societal expectation that people follow these rules.

 

[Odyssey Number 5]

I think you underestimate our brave young soldiers. They really could give a rat's rear end if somebody in their company is gay or not. It's the higher ups that are still a bit uptight. Yes, there are no doubt soldiers who are homophobes just as there are bankers, doctors and lawyers who are. But we have laws that discourage acting on those feelings. It is a societal expectation that people follow these rules.

My father was in the Army and my grandpa was in the Navy amongst other men in my family. As I said before, I don't think most homophobes are of the violent type, they are mostly just repulsed by gay male sex and maybe uncomfortable. I also said that I think MOST would be able to put that aside, so I did give them the benefit of a doubt. I hope DATD does get knocked down and that gay men can serve openly and that there is little to almost no friction. I think if DADT did get kicked down, that people would be mostly cordial and people would even be shocked by how not much has changed, seeing how gays have always been in the service anyways.

 

[bike10]

What shame that one who is gay wants to wear a uniform and protect our rights to express our opinions.

 

[Kulindahr]

When the generals were rejecting the advice of President Truman to desegregate the United States Armed Forces, he was faced with similar foot dragging arguments, obliging him to issue a presidential executive order.

The generals obeyed their commander in chief. The armed forces did not fall apart, and mayhem did not ensue.

Oh, there was mayhem, the worst being in Korea where some white officers made sure that blacks under their command got put where they were the most likely to die. But that's something I can't really see a Marine commander doing; you don't get past lieutenant rank there without regarding those under your command as "my Marines", to be used wisely, never thrown away in any fashion. Another big difference is that in Korea it was still basically a drafted army; today's is volunteer, which means they want to be there and aren't likely to do anything to get them a dishonorable discharge or a career-crippling trip to the stockade.

I'm sure you can find some Marines who are incredibly uncomfortable serving alongside Vietnamese-American soldiers. Maybe we should tell them to pretend that they're Chinese or Filipino instead.

Probably some who are uncomfortable serving alongside Southerners or Jews, too.

But Gen. Amos is basically telling us that his Marines don't have self-discipline, that they're so bad at focusing on their duty that even a fly landing on their bare arms in a combat situation is likely to get them killed. These are guys who are expected to stay put if they land on an ant trail at the end of a stealth rush forward, and we're supposed to believe that they're so afraid the Marine next to them can't stop thinking about their ass they won't be able to carry out their duties?

I submit that if he really believes what he's saying, with its implications, that the President should remove him not for bigotry, but for being unfit for his command because he regards his Marines as weak little boys.