Mature-Age-Gays who blindly married Women decades ago

[xbuzzerx]

Poor rich gay guys doing it for the audience, they must have it so bad. Bho, everyone is a victime today.

A simple read of my post will show you how wrong you are: I wrote about many types of marriage. My problem is - I´ll probably get banned for saying this for the millionth time - men from their 30s to 50s in developped countries.

When did I ever say that women play the clueless idiots? Of course, some might know. Some DO know. But some don´t. If they like the situation and don´t do anything about it, though for them, they are as much to blame for their lack of happiness in their lives as their husbands, but I was clearly talking about the wives who don´t know, who are lied, therefor used for appearances and nothing more. I would like to have the type of wife that I am talking about, here with us to tell us their version and bring some light here.

And yes, I do believe that a true marriage as you call it, should be two people being together for love and nothing more. Sure as hell I attack any other forms of it. Are you telling me you´re ok with - just 2 examples - trading a daughter for goats to make her the 10th wife of someone or arranging marriages for pretty much kids just so that the wealth can stay in the family? Come on...

That is your own personal, subjective definition which imposes qualifications and requirements far beyond the legal scope of marriage--- and I no more support your "right" to determine or define those for everybody than I do religious or Christian people who say that it should be one man and one woman.

The only marriage you have any right to establish those kinds of definitions for is your own.

therefor used for appearances and nothing more.

This applies to an enormous and uncountable number of marriages, the overwhelming majority of which do not involve a closeted gay male.

 

[Telstra]

You should know better.
It was society pressure, not "blindly married women"
Just ask yourself, why there is "no homo in Iran" ?

 

[aaggii]

That is your own personal, subjective definition which imposes qualifications and requirements far beyond the legal scope of marriage--- and I no more support your "right" to determine or define those for everybody than I do religious or Christian people who say that it should be one man and one woman.

Sure, everyone should marry for any other reason. I´m sure they will be happy for all their lives.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Sure, everyone should marry for any other reason. I´m sure they will be happy for all their lives.

You've gotta be a young dude. You think you know the recipe for happiness for everyone else.

 

[aaggii]

You've gotta be a young dude. You think you know the recipe for happiness for everyone else.

For a happy and true marriage, yes, I think I do know. It´s what I´ve learned from everyone around me and not only.

 

[xbuzzerx]

For a happy and true marriage, yes, I think I do know. It´s what I´ve learned from everyone around me and not only.

This quote could have come from virtually any right-wing religious source. Think on that.

 

[aaggii]

This quote could have come from virtually any right-wing religious source. Think on that.

No it´s not. I couldn´t care less about what people do with their lives, but if one is a lying cunt who, for example, marries someone for the wrong reasons, I wish they would stay far away from me.

 

[Gentleheart]

If you entered into a marriage with someone with the intention of deceiving them in some shape, form, or fashion...that's pretty shitty. Will we agree on that? Yes, it happens with other couples...hetero,homo, etc. for a variety of reasons. At the end of the day...can we all agree that deceiving a spouse is shitty? I mean, really. I feel like some of you are trying to argue against that or make justifications. Not buying that.

Sure, there are some (now) gay men who really hadn't found themselves when they met and married their (ex-)wives...but what happens when they realize who they are? If you want to suppress the desires, go for it...but there are many who keep up the charade while seeking action outside of their marriage. Perhaps to some of you, that's no biggie--but I think it's pretty fucked up. Am I judging someone for fucking men on the side while their wives (many obliviously) are kept in the dark about the whole thing? I am. I wouldn't want someone doing that to me.

Yes, things aren't black and white, you have a unique situation, etc. etc....we got that. Well, while you are going through that gray-area situation, is it too much to ask that your significant other is in it with you?

peeonme and mikey...it sounds as if you both have found ways to make your situations work for you without hurting anyone else. That's admirable, and you are not really the kind of guys such ire is directed towards.

I'm not ignorant to your situation(s). I'm not coming down hard on you for your journey. I'm just not for an innocent party being misled or deceived.

As I said...if you want to run a game, make sure the spouse is privy to the way the game is being played. If they're not...that's pretty shitty. If the shoe does not fit you, you can't (and shouldn't) wear it.

I agree but there are still huge swathes of not only Third World countries but Western civilization that are so intolerant. Until we can educate everyone to a high standard and abolish organized religion there will be many people who will feel trapped by their peers' opinions

I feel you.

That's another reason why those of us who are privileged enough to live in places that are more tolerant should lead (and live) by example. We have quite a ways to go. It's tough to force other cultures to "do as we do"...so one of the best things we can do is to reach out and educate, or encourage and assist people in relocating to places in which they can live freely and safely.

Don't even get me started on religion. I don't think it's possible to wipe that off the face of the planet. What we have to keep pushing for is ridding religion from government policies and seeping into secular arenas.

 

[ElmosToe]

^excellent post GH.


Just to add a couple thoughts....

I agree cheating is wrong, lying to a spouse is wrong and marrying for any other primary reason than love is wrong....
As much as I agree with the sentiment "be the change" and "lead by example" that both Eastofeden and GH have reiterated, no matter how hard we try, there will always be some form of cultural influence on the decisions we make.

My perspective on this issue comes with first hand experience with both close friends I have made over the years and many couples I have been with. My issue with this whole thread is that it was started by the OP as a passive aggressive attempt at judging and condemning people and their situations that the OP does not understand. If anything, this thread should be locked and the OP given and infraction for blatantly denigrating and offending a broad majority of the members here. But that is just my opinion.

 

[xbuzzerx]

If you entered into a marriage with someone with the intention of deceiving them in some shape, form, or fashion...that's pretty shitty. Will we agree on that? Yes, it happens with other couples...hetero,homo, etc. for a variety of reasons. At the end of the day...can we all agree that deceiving a spouse is shitty? I mean, really. I feel like some of you are trying to argue against that or make justifications. Not buying that.

I definitely agree and my disagreement with aaggii is not predicated on a stance of "deceiving spouses to enter straight marriages as a gay male is a good thing", just for the record. What I am saying however is that the simple fact that two parties in a marriage are both heterosexual up front does not suddenly mean the marriage is honest in every way, no deception has happened, neither party was considering social norms or social expectations, neither party is seeking any form of advancement or advantage through the partnership, that it was based only in "true love", or whatever else.

Simply saying "marriages involving a gay man and a woman are bad because it's using the woman" implies that never happens in straight marriages, and implies that every woman in every marriage with a gay man is a deceived victim. Saying that such marriages are just to meet social pressures or social norms is even more problematic because it could very well be that the majority of marriages on the planet still happen under enormous pressure to meet social norms and cultural attitudes. Marriages between people of very different racial or economic or cultural backgrounds is still the minority even in the privileged first world. They're much rarer in the great bulk of the world we like to never think or talk about or bring into the consideration.

The idea that people marry in a vaccuum based exclusively on a sexual and spiritual connection between the two individuals, with no pressures to meet any other outside expectations or social norms weighing on it, is a myth, even if we were discussing only heterosexual marriages.

 

[mikey3000]

I don't understand this need to judge anyone else's marriage, as though we are entitled to do so. It's none of my business what their marriage is based on, nor them mine. Love, sex, money, companionship, alliances, marriages are based on many things, from all corners of the world. Marriage for love being a relatively new idea, and still finding it's place on the global continuum. One cannot inflict local ideals on a global village and expect immediate results. It doesn't work.

 

[peeonme]

If you entered into a marriage with someone with the intention of deceiving them in some shape, form, or fashion...that's pretty shitty. Will we agree on that? Yes, it happens with other couples...hetero,homo, etc. for a variety of reasons. At the end of the day...can we all agree that deceiving a spouse is shitty? I mean, really. I feel like some of you are trying to argue against that or make justifications. Not buying that.

Sure, there are some (now) gay men who really hadn't found themselves when they met and married their (ex-)wives...but what happens when they realize who they are? If you want to suppress the desires, go for it...but there are many who keep up the charade while seeking action outside of their marriage. Perhaps to some of you, that's no biggie--but I think it's pretty fucked up. Am I judging someone for fucking men on the side while their wives (many obliviously) are kept in the dark about the whole thing? I am. I wouldn't want someone doing that to me.

Yes, things aren't black and white, you have a unique situation, etc. etc....we got that. Well, while you are going through that gray-area situation, is it too much to ask that your significant other is in it with you?

peeonme and mikey...it sounds as if you both have found ways to make your situations work for you without hurting anyone else. That's admirable, and you are not really the kind of guys such ire is directed towards.

I'm not ignorant to your situation(s). I'm not coming down hard on you for your journey. I'm just not for an innocent party being misled or deceived.

As I said...if you want to run a game, make sure the spouse is privy to the way the game is being played. If they're not...that's pretty shitty. If the shoe does not fit you, you can't (and shouldn't) wear it.

I just sent the humane society away from my door, when I told them that the horse was dead they had no objection to me beating it.

I feel a bit like Quasimodo standing in the door of the cathedral crying "sanctuary, sanctuary" as he faces down the troops inasmuch as JUB is the one place I feel safe being myself. I replied to this thread because of the constant use of the words "lie" and "use" in a blanket sort of way, in a perfect world all of the cards would be on the table, there would be no secrets.

The shoe that you speak of is not one that I would put on willingly, rather I feel that many seek to force it on my foot.

My marriage is not a charade, it is a union between a man and a woman, nowhere do I find a rule that states anything thing about orientation, fetishes, proclivities or perversions, yes, people have baggage.

I would dare say that if people knew "all" about their future partner, many would scream and run. Did it occur to anyone that some people would rather not know "everything"?

Yes, in a perfect world gay men would not marry women, hell, for some in a perfect world there would be no gay men, let us be careful in what we wish for, lest we get it.

 

[aaggii]

I definitely agree and my disagreement with aaggii is not predicated on a stance of "deceiving spouses to enter straight marriages as a gay male is a good thing", just for the record. What I am saying however is that the simple fact that two parties in a marriage are both heterosexual up front does not suddenly mean the marriage is honest in every way(...)

No one ever said here that all heterosexual marriages - just like all gay marriages - are 100% true.

Simply saying "marriages involving a gay man and a woman are bad because it's using the woman" implies that never happens in straight marriages, and implies that every woman in every marriage with a gay man is a deceived victim.

This is not true. We already talked about it. There are all sorts of possible scenarios and the one discussed here is just one - gay men marrying women. It doesn´t mean there aren´t heterosexuals in a problematic marriage, it doesn´t mean that all women are victims or that they have no clue about their husbands affairs. I could even say that in most cases, the truth always comes to the surface. But again, we are talking about gay men marrying women, no more no less. The other possibilities are other subjects to discuss.