Men arrested for burning Koran

[WillMc88]

Burning the Koran was in insult to all Muslims. When will people realize that acts like those of 9/11 and 7/7 were acts of terrorists, not of Muslims?
These guys should be charged with a hate crime because that's what it was.

Even if you do consider this an attack on all muslims, it wouldn't be a hate crime.

 

[gsdx]

Was I the one making a fuss over Middle-Easterners burning the U.S. flag? Do you have a single instance where I was? Do I seem to support that outrage yet not this one?

I don't recall mentioning you by name. I responded to a comment you made by using historical actions. You will note that I didn't even mention a particular religion or country or anything.

We're different countries with different laws and different ideals. It is doubtful that we will ever see eye-to-eye on what 'Freedom of Speech' means. Without limitations, it is just an excuse to say or to do whatever the hell one pleases regardless of the consequences.

 

[WillMc88]

I don't recall mentioning you by name. I responded to a comment you made by using historical actions. You will note that I didn't even mention a particular religion or country or anything.

We're different countries with different laws and different ideals. It is doubtful that we will ever see eye-to-eye on what 'Freedom of Speech' means. Without limitations, it is just an excuse to say or to do whatever the hell one pleases regardless of the consequences.

So what was your point?

 

[Críostóir]

I keep forgetting who it was who said "In order to have enough [freedom], you must have too much."

In the US, we've made the choice to have too much freedom of speech in order to have enough. If we had an exception for inciting religious hatred, someone would be prosecuted for having a gay rights march on the theory that demanding gay rights "incites religious hatred" against right-wing Evangelical Christians. We're enormously diverse in race, religion and culture, much more than the UK or even Canada, and if we didn't have total freedom we would quickly have none. Canadians are less fractious overall, and in the UK...well, there's a country slouching toward fascism even faster than the US, though in this case I certainly like the outcome.

I'd like to point out that our system worked in the recent threatened mass Qur'an burning. Pressure from left and right and several different local religious groups dissuaded him from his planned course (along with feeding his hunger for publicity, which I'm much less happy about).

 

[gsdx]

So what was your point?

My point was that many here are condoning the burning of the Qur'an while, at the same time, many condemned the burning of the Stars and Stripes and Bush effigies. I remember the outrage and the war chants. Both protests. Both destruction of symbols. But one is good and one is bad.

What's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

 

[WillMc88]

My point was that many here are condoning the burning of the Qur'an while, at the same time, many condemned the burning of the Stars and Stripes and Bush effigies. I remember the outrage and the war chants. Both protests. Both destruction of symbols. But one is good and one is bad.

What's good for the goose isn't necessarily good for the gander.

Well I don't really see the relevance of saying that. Though it is true, nobody in this thread has done that, and I would say that both acts should be protected under the law, regardless of who thinks they're wrong.

 

[WillMc88]

I keep forgetting who it was who said "In order to have enough [freedom], you must have too much."

In the US, we've made the choice to have too much freedom of speech in order to have enough. If we had an exception for inciting religious hatred, someone would be prosecuted for having a gay rights march on the theory that demanding gay rights "incites religious hatred" against right-wing Evangelical Christians. We're enormously diverse in race, religion and culture, much more than the UK or even Canada, and if we didn't have total freedom we would quickly have none. Canadians are less fractious overall, and in the UK...well, there's a country slouching toward fascism even faster than the US, though in this case I certainly like the outcome.

I'd like to point out that our system worked in the recent threatened mass Qur'an burning. Pressure from left and right and several different local religious groups dissuaded him from his planned course (along with feeding his hunger for publicity, which I'm much less happy about).

That's an excellent way of putting it.

 

[torontoboy92]

No, we have laws against the incitement of racial hatred. Our legal system recognises that rights come with responsibilities and doesn't shield bigotry with a fundamentalist interpretation of a written constitution.

So apparently being a muslim is a race now...

This is not racial hatred, as being muslim is NOT a race. All races can be muslim, it's a religion.

I find it strange how the people who say this sort of thing can put their nose in the air and act high and mighty when they don't realize their own ignorance.

 

[torontoboy92]

I really like the idea of freedom of speech/expression. Sure, someone can say some bullshit like "fags are sick in the head", but, call me hypocritical, but even though I may be offended because I am gay, I love the fact they have the right to speak their mind.

People are entitled to their stupidity. If the government starts to decide what is ok to say, you begin a dangerous path down a road that leads towards oppression, censorship, and if left unchallenged, totalitarianism. Sure, it would be nice if people couldn't call gays "fags" but then in the future, how can I be sure I can't call a religious extremist a nut job, or criticize the government because it's decided it is offense to state morale.

Yes, I often hear people say that they believe fears about mass censorship are unfounded or unrealistic, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

A beautiful quote in my opinion.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." - Evelyn Beatrice Hall

 

[gsdx]

If the government starts to decide what is ok to say, you begin a dangerous path down a road that leads towards oppression, censorship, and if left unchallenged, totalitarianism.

Hello. We have 'Hate Speech/Hate Crime' legislation up here. Call it censorship if you want, but if it keeps me from having to listen to asshats like Fred Phelps spew their hatred and filth day after day, then I don't mind losing that little bit of 'freedom'.

So many people are terrified of losing even a minute portion of their freedom of speech that they are blinded to all the other freedoms that are being ripped out from under them or are being prevented from even having in the first place.

"One of these days" should be now!

 

[AnalblasT]

SO ... muslims all over the world can enjoy freedom of expression by burning the US flag ....

BUT ...

no one can touch THEIR symbols? ... bullshit .... bullshit .... and more BULLSHIT

exactly what you said (in my bolded emphasis) applies to MY ... OUR ... respect for our national symbol ... does RESPECT stop them from carrying out their own burnings? ... NO

and google "muslims burn bible" and you get hits like these:

"Christians in Gaza Fear for Their Lives as Muslims Burn Bibles and Destroy Crosses"

"Muslims burn Bible in Pakistan"

more example

muslim burn/destroy church/stupa etc

muslim terror minority

 

[kennny88]

At the end of the day, we still won't agree on the same thing.

Iam not a religious person, but I still think burning a religious text is wrong I don't care if youre Islamic, Christian, Buddist, Jew, Hindo or an Atheist it doesn't matter it is still wrong.