Messed around last nite with best friend...now I'm confused

[blogthissucker]

If his family is well-off, he's not going to starve. You are not his only source of money, SO... Either he's a decent-to-good person, and he recognizes that if he needs money he should go to his well-off family rather than a grad student (meaning that the money changing hands since you became friends is probably incidental) OR he's a huge scumbag who wants to get as MUCH money from as MANY sources as he possibly can. Then again, he might not have thought about it. It wouldn't hurt to remind him that grad students are poor.

You might want to cut him off for his own good. Whether or not he is consciously thinking about it, he is relying on other people [including you] to support him. You've already said that his parents are trying to get him to be self-sufficient, so if you keep giving him money then that will undo his parents' efforts, not to mention bleeding you even more since you will be his only source.

Also, even if you don't think that any of what I've said is true, you could PRETEND that you think it is, and use it as your reason to cut him off. It's easier to tell someone "I'm doing this for your own good" than "I'm doing this because I think you're using me". It's not the most honest approach, but if it's what it takes to stop you giving him money then I think that it is worth it.

 

[KaraBulut]

Underlying this is the expectation of a loan with "payback".

With friends or family, if you cannot give the money without the expectation of getting it back (i.e. a "gift", not a loan), then you should say "No".

Money can ruin a friendship. You have to be careful about mixing friendship and money.

That's what happened here. This was your friend. And if you wanted to give him the money, you should have done so without any strings attached.

Unfortunately, he turned it into a business transaction, and- as someone else said- you become the john, he became the prostitute. And now you're left with uncertainty about whether he's your friend or he's just been using you.

We don't have the answer to your friend's motive. You should talk to him and let him know what you're feeling about what happened.

 

[aijalon18]

Tallguy, please do not play devil's advocate. This thread reminds me of the "Undying love for my best friend" thread by LostVegas where the guy wasted years and thousands and thousands of dollars on his "best friend" and could not see how the friend was using him. It isnt as simple as the the guy merely using him for money he is most likely using him emotionally. The guy was a loser who knew this gay guy was in love with him and making him feel better by constantly giving him praise and adoration that he didnt deserve.

It seems the same thing is happening here. This guy clearly has made several bad decisions and most people treat him like a deadbeat, loser. Clearly his family doesnt have enough faith in him or else they'd be helping him get his life together. He has prolly burned to many bridges with them and they are willing to let Fizz ruin his life by helping their son.

Fizz, if they really cared about you they would tell you to stay away from their son before you get sucked into his mess. Like in LostVegas' thread he is proly using you emotionally. You sound like you have feelings for him and try to be supportive by building his esteem and telling him how great he is. I'd advise you to read some of "Undying love..." thread on this page so you dont make the same mistakes that guy did.

 

[StlKj]

This did not start as a friendship. This started as you hiring him for sex. You then became friends with your rentboy. Of course he says you shouldn't spend so much on him, because he knows you will. It's not a coincidence that a week after you have a talk with him about only wanting your money, he's willing to give it up again to keep you on the line. If he truly thinks of you as his friend, then the next time you offered to buy something for him, he would say "no."

This guy is a complete user. He may indeed believe you're his friend, but his friendship currently has a price. And actually, it has since day one.

 

[Fizzboy7]

Well, I'm going to play devils advocate here...

Fizz, I'm not sure that someone really does spend 6 months chilling with someone just to get a hand out for sex.

My guess is that this guy is a lot like you. Lonely, and maybe really in need of help.

Yeah, you might like to share and help him out every now and then when you go out, but hell I do too with my friends and I'd like to think they dont see me as an ATM.

I guess what I'm saying is this.

Its time to have a serious talk to this guy, not throw the baby out with the bath water.

You've got nothing to lose... good friends are honest and open. Sit him down and explain to him your regret and ask him why he suggested that it would take sex for you to help him. Ask him if he sees you as a client or a friend... you'll know whether or not hes lying.

And then lay down some ground rules. Help him sort out his mess... do what you can to get his life in order with him so he can stop mooching of those who care for him... his mum included. It honestly sounds like he needs guidance not money.

Friends dont buy each others friendship Fizz. They support each other, even financially if needs be if thats whats agreed to to help out, but importantly they trust each other. Nows the time to find out if thats possible here before you walk away.

Hey everyone, thanks for all the advice. But I think I actually agree with Tallguy. I plan on having a talk with him today...he wants me to take him over to his mom's house. Maybe this would be some good convo in the car during the ride.

 

[spencer]

Continue to hang out. Don't continue to pay. Good luck on the talk.

 

[aijalon18]

Hey everyone, thanks for all the advice. But I think I actually agree with Tallguy. I plan on having a talk with him today...he wants me to take him over to his mom's house. Maybe this would be some good convo in the car during the ride.

This is what I was afraid of. I knew you would agree with Tallguy, because tallguy is the only person who told you pretty much what you wanted to hear. You didnt really want the harsh truth. You wanted someone to tell you this relationship was real and worth pursuing, even though everything you've told us suggests you should walk away from it. And you notice he needs you to bring him to his mom's house? Good luck to you. You're gonna need it. Your setting yourself up for a long road of heartache. I'm surprised he doesnt have a pregnant gf for u to help him support.

 

[tallguy297]

Hmmm... in light of what aijalon wrote, it got me thinking so I thought I had better try and clarify things a little...

I'm not suggesting that he should continue this course of action in endlessly paying this guys way or letting these "business" arrangements continue or even that the friendship continue in the current situation.

What I was trying to get across was that before we burned this guy at the stake, before we send him to the gallows, we actually act like people who care about others as much as ourselves and see if we cant figure out the real underlying issue here... an obvious lack of direction and responsibility in his life and to see if there really was a friendship that was worth salvaging.

Then , and only then, based on whatever facts or excuses, the friend makes, make a decision on the future. Its the same consideration you'd offer any other person you had reason to consider a friend. If the doubts linger, walk away.

Friendships develop from the least likely places and with the strangest of people. To imply that this guy isnt worth that possibility without understanding his actions worries me... especially after 6 months believing otherwise.

I may be wrong... most likely will be. But if it was me I'd like to not spend the rest of my life wondering about how many people I missed having in it because I was too quick to judge.

 

[Fizzboy7]

Hey everyone. So I finally had that much needed talk with him this afternoon. I told him that ever since he asked to mess around for money a couple of days ago, my eyes were opened to the fact that our friendship is based on nothing but me being his personal ATM. I told him that lately I've been feeling used and he was never really a real friend to me, even though I did things for him because I thought that we were really buddies.

When I told him that I think he still only views me as a client/customer whenever we chill, there was a long moment of silence. Then he says "naw...of course not". Then I told him that "if you really saw me as a friend then you would never ask to mess around again for money." After I said that, he then brought up the fact that I replied to his ad online 6 months ago, and that should have known what he was all about. So I said to him "then I guess that's all you'll ever see me as...just one of your clients that's paying for your friendship. Again, there was a moment of silence. I then told him "I take it that's the truth because you aren't saying anything to say it isn't true." He denies it again as says "that's not true....you are my friend, I don't understand what you're talking about and where you're coming from with all of this".

So we went back and forth on the topic for about another 30 minutes. So I finally ask "if I couldn't give you money anymore, would you still wanna hang out and be friends?" He replied "yes, but if you wanna stop hanging out that's fine with me, I'll just erase your number from my phone." Then I responded "what you just said proves that you're not a real friend. A real friend never would say that, you aren't being truthful with me...deep down you still see me as just a client who pays to hang out with you." He keeps denying what I say to him. Then says to me "I'm sorry if you feel that way." Then I made it clear that I never want him to ask me for money or to ever ask me again to mess around for money. He agreeds that he never will, so we go hang out on the beach.

So you're reading this probably thinking that everything is all ok between him & I. Actually, the truth is that IT'S OVER between us.

After we got back to his place after about 4 hours, he comes up to me and says "I really need some more money...you wanna throw me 60 bucks to mess around?" I was furious. It's now obvious that I'm the one who's stupid hanging around this guy. After I get mad, he says "oh...I forgot. You told me not to ask you that again."

It's clear that I'll never have a normal friendship with this guy. He only wants to be be around me if it involves me giving him something. I can't continue our relationship like this. I told him "I'm leaving and you'll probably never hear from me again." Then he says "ok...if that's way you want it, we don't have to be friends anymore".

The entire drive home, I was really mad, and at the same time feeling really broken-hearted. I spent 6 months of my time with someone who never truly cared for me as a person, rather just a business transaction. I should have known better. I just see this as a huge learning experience.

I'm sure he'll call be tomorrow morning as he always does. Knowing me, I'll probably be temped to answer his call, but I've told myself that I'm not speaking to him again.

Right not, I'm kinda depressed and I feel like I've just lost the only person that I though was my best friend here in Miami. But I feel it's better to end this now after 6-months, than find out after it's been years.

I hope I made the right decision.

 

[tallguy297]

I hope I made the right decision.

You did mate... no question. Now you have to stick by it.

More importantly how you came to that decision is the reason to stick by it.

You asked him, you gave him benefit of the doubt and you let him give you the truth... in a fashion at least. Right now armed with that knowledge, the facts if you like, you can be rational and honest with yourself. Any further interaction with this guy will simply be a case of satisfying both your needs on a physical and monetary basis, and theres nothing evil in that, but thats all it will ever be.

Its not 6 months lost Fizz, dont look at it like that. Yeah its a life lesson maybe, but then again I wouldnt beat yourself up too badly. To see the best in people isnt a character flaw, its a good thing. Perhaps the lesson is to take a little more time prove yourself right.

The upside is this... that 6 months let you see places, do things and meet other people. It got you involved, active and living life in a new place. It let you familiarize and get comfortable with your surroundings... thats no bad thing.

In fact mate, that 6 months gave you the footing and tools to know how to better make Miami work for you, so you can now find groups and clubs and activities that suit you and let you meet other guys who will want to know you for the right reasons!

 

[CGHJ]

Lesson learned buddy...don't feel bad it happens to a lot of people. If you had fun, then at least you had some fun, and at least you got to 'scratch your itch' to mess around, so now you know what it's like. It is what it is: a lesson you have just learned that will save you a lot of trouble in the future when you meet someone else like him. And you will. Just don't go too far the other way, there are good people out there too, it just takes practice to recognize who's who.

 

[Fizzboy7]

Thanks for the support guys, I really appreciate all the advice you all gave me. And, I really will probably miss hanging around with him. Maybe I was a little too harsh on him though. Maybe he really would pay me back if me had his own money. If he could, I'm sure he would. And I just now, I remember some of the little things he'd do for me to show he cares. For example, sometimes after I get home from work, he would call me and say "you wanna come over my place for dinner? I've cooked some food for us tonight''.

Here's another part of the situation with him that I didn't mention though.

See, the guy has a problem with being addicted to smoking weed. It's something that I realized the 3rd day that I've known him. Everyday he needs to smoke at least three times to relax, or he says he'll go crazy. Myself, I'm not at all like that. Yes, him & I have smoked together at times, but I'm not at all addicted to it in that way.

That's the real reason why he wanted me to give the cash to him...because he's a weed addict.

Truthfully, I'm kinda worried now that if I'm not there to help support his habit, he really might get into trouble trying to get money for his habit.

 

[texpatriot]

Thanks for the support guys, I really appreciate all the advice you all gave me. And, I really will probably miss hanging around with him. Maybe I was a little too harsh on him though. Maybe he really would pay me back if me had his own money. If he could, I'm sure he would. And I just now, I remember some of the little things he'd do for me to show he cares. For example, sometimes after I get home from work, he would call me and say "you wanna come over my place for dinner? I've cooked some food for us tonight''.

Here's another part of the situation with him that I didn't mention though.

See, the guy has a problem with being addicted to smoking weed. It's something that I realized the 3rd day that I've known him. Everyday he needs to smoke at least three times to relax, or he says he'll go crazy. Myself, I'm not at all like that. Yes, him & I have smoked together at times, but I'm not at all addicted to it in that way.

That's the real reason why he wanted me to give the cash to him...because he's a weed addict.

Truthfully, I'm kinda worried now that if I'm not there to help support his habit, he really might get into trouble trying to get money for his habit.

Dude! Where is your self-respect?

You stated early on in this thread that you don't need to pay for sex, with a guy or anyone else!

Where's the love?

For yourself, or even for this guy?

It's obvious from what I've read, and the stories that you've shared about his family, and their ability to "pay" but from all of that I'm reading that with this guy it's "all about him," always will be, and IMO you're doing nothing but supporting that.

What about you?

Sure your curious, and have some issues, and that even at the ripe old age of 26, you're still working through some issues.

You've shared more introspection in just a few posts in this thread, than you've been able to share about this 22 year old self absorbed, self destructive asshole!

Give him up for Lent!

You deserve better, and the fact that you're even questioning your relationship with this guy proves it!

 

[deserter85]

Good job on getting rid of the poison in your life.

Another thing: He's not your responsibility. If he wants to flush his life down the toilet by smoking weed all day long and not getting a job, just let him be. You worry about your own life.

 

[StlKj]

Fizz, buddy, I highly encourage you to read up on codependency. At the very least, check out the wikipedia entry at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codependence.

You're excusing his addiction, his manipulations, his lies--and you're reading into the little tiny kindnesses he seemed to show you, when in fact they were just part of the whole picture that is his sickness. You've been willing to accept whatever little crumbs he tosses your way. This isn't really even about him; it's about you and your hesitancy to find something real and substantial. If you're not careful, you'll find another one similar enough to him to continue the pattern, but maybe different enough so you won't recognize it as a pattern.

Let's look again at how this started:

He was in jail--not necessarily a deal-breaker, but anyone who has been in jail should at least work harder to prove himself as someone who has learned his lesson and is striving to do better.

He's a pot addict--while we can debate whether or not pot should be illegal, it IS illegal, which means he didn't really learn much from his jail stay.

Your first encounter involved you paying for him. That's right--you did not give him money to help him out--you paid him for sex. That makes him a rentboy.

You wanted to "help out" a pot-addicted, recently out of jail rentboy who is already divorcing at age 22. This guy had mess written all over him, and you fell for it. For him.

Would it be fair to say that while you call him a buddy and a friend, you might actually be lying to yourself about how deep your feelings for him go?

This really isn't about him anymore. It's about you, and why a good looking 26 year old feels the need to pay for friendship and companionship. You say you started all of this because you didn't have time for friends, and yet you had time for this one. Why is that?

I'm sorry you're hurting right now, Fizz, but you have to look at this in a different way, or you will let this user back in, or let other users in, in order to save them. Who will save you?

 

[CGHJ]

Don't get sucked in! Even of he wasn't using you "on purpose", you can do better. He may in reality be a very sweet guy who doesn't know any better and doesn't mean you any harm...but A) just from experience and what you've said, I (and the rest of us) doubt it, and B) he's not your responsibility. Enable him and he'll never learn.

FYI, I used to be a very heavy pot smoker. There ain't nothin wrong with that...but guess what I had a job and didn't need anyone to pay for my reefer.

 

[itsmeagain]

Don't waste another second with this looser.
You are not a piece of meat.

 

[KaraBulut]

That's the real reason why he wanted me to give the cash to him...because he's a weed addict.

Truthfully, I'm kinda worried now that if I'm not there to help support his habit, he really might get into trouble trying to get money for his habit.

Another thing: He's not your responsibility. If he wants to flush his life down the toilet by smoking weed all day long and not getting a job, just let him be. You worry about your own life.

Fizz, buddy, I highly encourage you to read up on codependency.

It is codependency. You're enabling by making excuses for him and feeling guilty for not supporting his habit.

Having been around for a while- I could tell you that someone who is so matter-of-fact about ditching friends or having sex for money probably had an addiction issue.

And I'm betting that this guy's problem is bigger than just marijuana.


Miami is a big place with lots of people looking for friends to hang out with. You just chose poorly this time. Stop wasting time and money on this guy and go find someone to hang out with that doesn't have all of these issues.

 

[Fizzboy7]

I just wanted to say thanks again for the advice guys. The input really made me thing deeply about our relationship. Maybe I'm in denial about being codependent...and that scares me. I don't wanna end up like that.

But somehow the more I think about it, I just can't let him go right now. I just want to make sure that I'm doing the right thing. Maybe he really does see me as more that just a customer. For example, why would he let me have a key to his place? Also, why would he ask to go back with me to my hometown to meet my family?

I think I've come to the conclusion that I might try to still hang out with him, but never pay anything for him and never give him money for his weed addiction. And this means if he asks me to smoke with him, I'll say no if it means that he wants me to be the one paying for it. If he asks to go out and eat, I'll just let him know that we're not gonna go if he has no money to pay for his own.

After all of this, if he stops calling me wanting to come over his place and chill after I cut off the funds, then I'll truly know what I mean to him.

 

[nautiboyjeff]

Have you thought about meeting some other friends and people? Perhaps having other friends to hang out with, it will help not having him around and give you a new/correct perspective on what true friends are.

Put your energy into that, rather than the paranoia of this unhealthy relationship.