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Michelle Obama was right

LaloGS

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Below is my rant about why I haven't been proud of my country most of my adult life. Comments welcome.



I've been thinking about Michelle Obama's contention that for the first time in her Adult life, she feels proud to be an American. While she has been ridiculed for the statement, it got me thinking about what she might have been trying to convey with her words. Here are my thoughts.

In my lifetime, I have lived through the terms of the following political regimes: Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Johnson, Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush, Bill Clinton, and George W. Bush. While I don't remember much about Roosevelt and Truman, I was aware of Eisenhower, and by the time Kennedy was running for office, I had grown politically aware. His campaign was the first I felt the need to work for. Still not of an age to vote, I none-the-less walked door to door, in my neighborhood in Denver handing out fliers and bumper stickers I'd picked up at the local Democratic storefront office. I didn't expect Kennedy to win, because all around me the adults, who could vote, were negative about his religion, his youth, his father's source of wealth, and his brother Bobby.

When he did win, I was ecstatic. When his Camelot regime was sworn in, I watched every minute on a little round Philco black and white TV in the window of the local hardware store. My family didn't own a TV in those days. I didn't hear the soundtrack of the inauguration, because the store owner had the sound turned off. I read all about it the next day when I got the papers I delivered on my morning paper route. I was proud.

Proud, because there was something different about JFK. Most prominent in my mind, was he sounded like there was hope for America when he spoke. I was just finishing my third year in high school, and the military or college loomed. College was unlikely, because my folks didn't have the income to support me in higher education. I was working hard for a scholarship, but wasn't hopeful I'd get it. My last year as a senior, I doubled my efforts, longing for a scholarship instead of a military career. I'd grown up an Army brat, and had had enough of the military life by the time I was 15.

The final competition for a scholarship my senior year came about, and when it was over, I stood at the top of the entire state of Colorado in my field, which is art, with thirteen National Merit awards, and a full scholarship to apply to any school I could get into. I was proud, and the lesson I took from that was that all hard work toward a goal would pay off. I worked hard in the school I chose, and received my BFA degree, but it was not a happy time for me, because JFK had been assassinated in Dallas. I applied to another school in New York City, and went there to take the entrance exam. I was a little stunned that any American would kill a sitting president. I wasn't so proud any more.

Then in seemingly rapid succession, Martin Luthor King was assassinated, then Bobby Kennedy, then suddenly, and after Johnson's declining to run, Nixon was president and the Viet Nam war was all I could see or think about. My brother was over there, sending back photos of the "Gooks" he'd run over and crushed with his tank. I was not proud. He finally came home with a necklace of Viet Cong ears, and a serious drug habit. I tried to talk him out of the drugs, but it didn't stop him from becoming a drug dealer/addict for most of his late 20s and all of his 30s and most of his early 40s. I was not proud.

I was protesting the war, and involved in several major marches. The UN march, the DC march, and no matter what we did as young people our voices were not heard. Kent state massacre happened, and I was not proud of my government at all. They were willing to kill our own in order to stifle freedom of speech. Definitely not proud.

I founded a free film school in New York and received a Federal grant to teach ghetto children the science of film making hoping those skills would help them to a better life. The grant money was overseen by a church and an important College in New York. Between the sponsors, the grant money was stolen, and the film school was forced to go it alone after the Federal agency that had given the grant, refused to investigate. I was very un-proud of the sponsors, and the agency for not doing the right thing.

I was invited to lecture in London and Berlin, but when I applied for a passport, it was refused because I was considered an undesirable representative citizen because of my involvement in the anti Viet Nam protests. I was refused annually until 1995, when I was given a passport with no explanation from the government. Extremely un-proud of my vindictive government. After all, I was no Weatherman bombing government buildings, I just stood up and protested the war. I participated in publishing the first notices of the Mi Li massacre, as a wall poster, but that needed to be done to prove the protests were right. Who did the government prosecute? Lt. Calley, a lowly grunt doing what he was told to do by his commanding officers. Not only was I not proud, but disgusted as well.

This rant can go on and on, because I think there has been a lot not to be proud of in America. But I think you get the picture of why I can agree with Michelle Obama that there hasn't been much in my lifetime to be proud of America about. We've had a series of leaders who have not had the best interests of the country or the people at heart. We've been very lax in how we vet our presidents, and as the saying goes, you get out of it what you put into it. Nothing to be proud of.

And now, with the Neocons in office, we can see clearly why we as Americans should not be so proud that we don't clean house of our sickening and compromised politicians. Obama might do well, but his inexperience in a national office will dictate a learning curve. I wish him all the best if he wins, and with honesty like his wife Michelle showed with her statement that began this rant, maybe he will overcome all that faces him if he takes the White House. Anyone would be better than another Repuglican flack toeing their disgusting party line, designed to keep America at war for the next hundred years.

We need change, and we need to move onto another plain of consciousness about who we are as a people, and stop playing world Policeman.
LaloGS
 
I was very moved by your story, Lalo. It's one of the most moving posts I've read here. I'm probably about fifteen years younger than you. So I can just remember as far back as the assassination of Pres. Kennedy. It was pretty traumatic for a five-year-old.

Thank you for sharing it. I think there are any number of ways to understand why one might not feel particularly proud of America sometimes. The important thing is that we elect the Democratic candidate this November. I'm convinced that will help move us along a more noble path.
 
LaloGS, couldn’t agree with you more, well said.

I could ramble on about numerous items that I am not proud that this country or its citizens have ignored or not addressed and I could write pages. But, the issue is not me, it is Michelle Obama, her experience and what leads her to voice her opinion and make a remark like that.

I am happy that I have not experienced what Michelle Obama has experienced. We all know that to be a black person and a woman makes it harder for you to get on in life. Why should she be proud of growing up in a life like that having to fight and claw her way to what she has achieved when a white guy or even a white woman does not have to put up with the silent and blatant discrimination that she has experienced. Why should she be proud of that or the country that has allowed that.

Being a Gay person, everyone on this sight knows what discrimination is. Are you proud of the people who have discriminated against you and the country that has allowed it? I see and hope you see Gay discrimination slowly subsiding as well as black discrimination but, it has not been eradicated. While other nations allow Gay people in the military, marriage and equality in governmental benefits the US does not. Why should we be proud of that?

I assume that from her point of view, her feelings are not that far away from what I have described. Why should she be proud of a country where it is possible for the Clinton campaign to make an issue of her husbands color in the Carolina primary race and try and use that as a divisive issue. Why should we be proud of a country that will make an issue out of this statement when the election happens? You know and I know that this will be an issue when the republicans start their full court press for the white house. Why should she be proud of that? Why can’t she express her opinion and be respected for that?

Are there issues that we should be proud of? Yes, absolutely but, there are issues that we should not be proud of and I am certainly am not.
 
Since you need change okay. Here is 2 dimes and a nickle, take that rant and call someone who will really would care.

You know you say it is hard to believe that someone would kill a sitting president. You act as if it was the first time it happened. And because of something that happened to two people who honestly you really didn't know you didn't feel proud of what you had accomplished on your own. That is weak. There isn't one country in this world that has not made mistakes about one thing or another, but you still feel pride in your county. You know u may be a lot older than me, and seen things that I didn't, but that doesn't mean that this generation hasn't seen bad things either and are still proud of their country as a whole, not based on a few peoples issues. What Michelle Obama said was a mistake, doesn't matter about it being honest, it was a wrong thing to say. With all the problems, America is still a great country and where we are in this election is proof of that. Would she be as proud of this county if her husband wasn't the current frontrunner, and Hillary was, she is also would be making history as a women. Her comment was shallow and incorrect.

No one can make you find pride, that has to come from you. And if you can't feel proud of what you yourself has done, then is subsitution of finding hope in Obama is just a cruch and misleading. My mother uses this quote, I don't know where she got it from, some movie. "Get down of the cross, someone else needs the wood."



"It is better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
 
I was very moved by your story, Lalo. It's one of the most moving posts I've read here. I'm probably about fifteen years younger than you. So I can just remember as far back as the assassination of Pres. Kennedy. It was pretty traumatic for a five-year-old.

Thank you for sharing it. I think there are any number of ways to understand why one might not feel particularly proud of America sometimes. The important thing is that we elect the Democratic candidate this November. I'm convinced that will help move us along a more noble path.

I agree, lalogs story brings back many sad memories, and of better times during
JFK's presidency.
 
While this country isn't perfect..its citizens should feel pride...the things mentioned are not the greatest moments in American history...true...but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater

FYI...Joseph Kennedy Sr. was a socialist sympathizer...that is what lost him his post as the Ambassador to Great Britian...it was a matter of time before JFK started showing his true colors much like Teddy....The ultra "do like I say not like I do"Socialist

I also wonder what Michelle Obama's station in life would be if she were in her husband's father's country Kenya

If she is so offended by being an American citizen perhaps she should think of expatriating herself...perhaps to Kenya
 
^ In other words, one should accept anything, as long as other do worse... great philosophy ..|
What's wrong with socialism? Why is it such a big scary word to most americans?? I really fail to understand this ...
 
Since you need change okay. Here is 2 dimes and a nickle, take that rant and call someone who will really would care.

You know you say it is hard to believe that someone would kill a sitting president. You act as if it was the first time it happened. And because of something that happened to two people who honestly you really didn't know you didn't feel proud of what you had accomplished on your own. That is weak. There isn't one country in this world that has not made mistakes about one thing or another, but you still feel pride in your county. You know u may be a lot older than me, and seen things that I didn't, but that doesn't mean that this generation hasn't seen bad things either and are still proud of their country as a whole, not based on a few peoples issues. What Michelle Obama said was a mistake, doesn't matter about it being honest, it was a wrong thing to say. With all the problems, America is still a great country and where we are in this election is proof of that. Would she be as proud of this county if her husband wasn't the current frontrunner, and Hillary was, she is also would be making history as a women. Her comment was shallow and incorrect.

No one can make you find pride, that has to come from you. And if you can't feel proud of what you yourself has done, then is subsitution of finding hope in Obama is just a cruch and misleading. My mother uses this quote, I don't know where she got it from, some movie. "Get down of the cross, someone else needs the wood."

Go back and read it again Musicman.
I of course know and knew, that there had been other assassinations of presidents, but as a young man, Kennedy was my first experience of it. It was shattering of one's ideals that it could happen in my own country. And although I never meet MLK, I did have several long telephone conversations with Bobby Kennedy while he was the Attorney General of the US, and I met him face to face and we had coffee, while he was campaigning for the White house. So I did know him at least a little, and it hurt when Sirhan Sirhan shot him.

My rant is not a political tract to one up Hillary, only that I agree with Michele Obama that it has been hard to be proud of America throughout most of my adult life. But I agree with you, that her public statement may have been inappropriate.

And I'll repeat it just in case you didn't get that far into it. . . I will vote for which ever Democrat wins the nomination, but I would prefer it to be Hillary.

And, I have always lived my life so that I can be as proud of my own actions as possible, often to my detriment. When my Consulting business crashed and burned, I paid my 38 employees their full salaries until every last one of them found new jobs, and it left me in bankruptcy, but it allowed me to sleep nights.

So if you care, read it again, and keep your change. I voted for Hillary. in my state's primary and will again if given the opportunity.
 
For the majority of my life, I've been ashamed to be North American because of the association with the states, because of the warmongering, the greed, and the religious fanaticism. Yes the states has brought good to the world, but it is often outweighed by the bad, like instilling in it's people that if your ashamed of your country, you need to keep your mouth shut, and respect is an unwarranted feeling for those who don't follow your point of view.

Musicman, your name suits you, because your argument was flat, with little substance.

D8Na2r, you make assumptions and accusations because you don't understand what's going on in Michelle Obama's head. And I doubt that the Kennedys were Socialists, just Socialist Supporters(read up on the actual ideal, and you'll understand the BIG difference between Socialism of today, and that of Marx writings).

And both of you are sounding like those red-neck protesters who hated the Dixie Chicks for saying they were ashamed that Bush was from Texas.
 
While this country isn't perfect..its citizens should feel pride...the things mentioned are not the greatest moments in American history...true...but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater

FYI...Joseph Kennedy Sr. was a socialist sympathizer...that is what lost him his post as the Ambassador to Great Britian...it was a matter of time before JFK started showing his true colors much like Teddy....The ultra "do like I say not like I do"Socialist

I also wonder what Michelle Obama's station in life would be if she were in her husband's father's country Kenya

If she is so offended by being an American citizen perhaps she should think of expatriating herself...perhaps to Kenya

D8Na2R, it's your use of the word in bold red in your post that marks you as unthinking. We should not have to do anything that goes against our personal values. I hold myself to a higher standard that most of the politicians I've lived through. You apparently do not and don't seem to care what these creeps do in your name. I do care, and I'll aways object when they try to include me in their lies and inhumanity.
 
^ In other words, one should accept anything, as long as other do worse... great philosophy ..|
What's wrong with socialism? Why is it such a big scary word to most americans?? I really fail to understand this ...

It scares most Americans, because seemingly forever it has been associated with Communism. Most Americans such as D8Na2R, who posted on this thread, haven't got a clue about socialism and fall back so easily onto the old Neocon party line. Since they don't seem to read, and if they do, only read tracts that they agree with. Hence they choose to remain ignorant of many things.
 
LaloGS, couldn’t agree with you more, well said.

I could ramble on about numerous items that I am not proud that this country or its citizens have ignored or not addressed and I could write pages. But, the issue is not me, it is Michelle Obama, her experience and what leads her to voice her opinion and make a remark like that.

I am happy that I have not experienced what Michelle Obama has experienced. We all know that to be a black person and a woman makes it harder for you to get on in life. Why should she be proud of growing up in a life like that having to fight and claw her way to what she has achieved when a white guy or even a white woman does not have to put up with the silent and blatant discrimination that she has experienced. Why should she be proud of that or the country that has allowed that.

Being a Gay person, everyone on this sight knows what discrimination is. Are you proud of the people who have discriminated against you and the country that has allowed it? I see and hope you see Gay discrimination slowly subsiding as well as black discrimination but, it has not been eradicated. While other nations allow Gay people in the military, marriage and equality in governmental benefits the US does not. Why should we be proud of that?

I assume that from her point of view, her feelings are not that far away from what I have described. Why should she be proud of a country where it is possible for the Clinton campaign to make an issue of her husbands color in the Carolina primary race and try and use that as a divisive issue. Why should we be proud of a country that will make an issue out of this statement when the election happens? You know and I know that this will be an issue when the republicans start their full court press for the white house. Why should she be proud of that? Why can’t she express her opinion and be respected for that?

Are there issues that we should be proud of? Yes, absolutely but, there are issues that we should not be proud of and I am certainly am not.

As a gay man, of partial American Indian ancestry, and a Democrat, I have always been intolerant of bias in any form. I grew up in an extremely prejudicial family, but somehow that mental illness has never been part of my thinking process. I saw it time and again as I was growing up, and my father even dragged me to KKK meetings when I was a kid. We lived in Arizona, where American Indians, Hispanics and blacks and Asians, all had their euphemistic names we all are aware of today, but try in the name of Political correctness to avoid using in mixed company, we all also know it seethes just below the surface in many American hearts. Those of us sensitive to its ugliness, are aware of it in nearly all aspects of our society. If Obama is the Nominee, it will boil over again.

And I'd like to amend my Rant by changing one word. I would like to substitute the word "Government" for the word "America" and or "Country". I love this country America, but I have not been enthralled by most of its regimes as I grew up. Anyone who was, I view as part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

What Michele and Barrack endured growing up in this racist society is mind numbing if one devotes even a few moments of thinking about racism in this country.

Little girls bombed to death in a church, grown men called boy and forced to build a family on pig guts and rice and beans because they were not allowed to earn a living wage. or in one instance I know of in TN, of a black family building a fine new house on money they had earned with hard labor only to have it burned to the ground just after they moved into it by the KKK because, according to the local newspaper, "it was too good a house for niggers." Even as a student in Kansas city, helping to integrate swimming pools in the sweltering summer heat only to see the pools empty out of every white except for those of us trying to help. They were children for god's sake, and they just wanted to enjoy the cool water that was not available in their own neighborhoods. Or holding my good black friend for hours while we both cried over the murder of Martin Luther King, and later Malcom X.

No, everything is not A-OK in America, and never has been. And anyone who believes it is, is not living in reality. My heart goes out to Michele Obama and Barrack Obama as it does to all people who don't fit the American Stereotype of white middle class protestant that are born into this stew of slimy ignorant hatred.

I believe however if Barrack was Hillary's VP for 8 years working with her to hopefully bring some semblance of order to the country that in 8 years he will have become so loved that the racists won't be able to work their evil magic to defeat him.
 
That was nice Gary...

I fowarded that to my Dad...

He'd like that..

Thanks Kenny. Right now, your comment means a lot to me. I'm still at the effect of impossible government bureaucracy: as you know.
 
I was very moved by your story, Lalo. It's one of the most moving posts I've read here. I'm probably about fifteen years younger than you. So I can just remember as far back as the assassination of Pres. Kennedy. It was pretty traumatic for a five-year-old.

Thank you for sharing it. I think there are any number of ways to understand why one might not feel particularly proud of America sometimes. The important thing is that we elect the Democratic candidate this November. I'm convinced that will help move us along a more noble path.

We are a noble people, and always have thought ourselves to be such, but we have been less than noble of late, and we can see with stunning clarity who and what has caused this change in our collective perception of ourselves. It's time to trash the GOP and the neocon creeps that would do America wrong. Anyone voting for a Repuglican this year should experience an old fashioned American ostracism. The party ought to be banned for their crimes against humanity and this country.
 
While this country isn't perfect..its citizens should feel pride...the things mentioned are not the greatest moments in American history...true...but you can't throw the baby out with the bathwater

FYI...Joseph Kennedy Sr. was a socialist sympathizer...that is what lost him his post as the Ambassador to Great Britian...it was a matter of time before JFK started showing his true colors much like Teddy....The ultra "do like I say not like I do"Socialist

I also wonder what Michelle Obama's station in life would be if she were in her husband's father's country Kenya

If she is so offended by being an American citizen perhaps she should think of expatriating herself...perhaps to Kenya

D8Na2R: How big of you.

Why can't you respect her opinion based on her experiences? It is an American ideal that America is a big melting pot of diverse opinions and experiences. This American ideal of respecting someone else’s opinion threatens you? I don’t get it.

Your cheep answer, go back to where you came from, is one of the many actions that make me ashamed to admit that I am an American. In your world and too many like you, there is no room for alternative points of view. No opportunity to learn what the other persons experience is and what you might learn from it and what result that might bring to make you and everyone else a better person. What a wonderful American you are.
 
It's time to trash the GOP and the neocon creeps that would do America wrong. Anyone voting for a Repuglican this year should experience an old fashioned American ostracism. The party ought to be banned for their crimes against humanity and this country.

How Democratic of you.

It is an American ideal that America is a big melting pot of diverse opinions and experiences.

Neither major party these days really wants a melting pot. What they want are special interests -- "evangelicals", blacks, Hispanics, whatever -- following out of loyalty, not out of belief in principles.
 
why do you sound so disrespectful to people music man im not looking for a fight or to get bashed by you its just a honest simple question im asking, cuz it makes me wonder when i read some of your posts. i know you proably dont mean to come off like that so im just asking
 
^ He sounds disrespectful because you are pre-disposed to feel that. You could as
.
easily interpret what he says as respectful because he does not want to say
.
something that has no merit in being read. Other figures of speech that you
.
might object to are things that most human beings tend to add in for emphasis.
.
 
How Democratic of you.

Kuli, I hardly think you get my point. What do you think the Nazi death camps were for? Hitler had a specific type of Germanic human that he called ideal. To achieve his goal of the ideal German, he proposed to eliminate every person living within Germany at the time Hitler and the Nazis took power that did not fit the description. In order to attain his goal of a homogenous society, he ordered the elimination of every person who didn't fit the description. Hence the death camps. Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals, were not the only people herded into them and gassed. Crippled people, those born deformed, or even those of darker skin colors were gassed as well..

The way the GOP under it's current leadership is dividing the country, they are proving that they seem to have similar goals of separating out the Americans that are not of the chosen White Anglo Saxon heritage, and Alienating them. I think this has serious overtones to it and the GOP either has to reform itself and divest the current leadership of power, or we are in for a bumpy ride with the neoNazis that have taken over the party. If you don't know the history of the rise of Nazism, then I guess you won't see the parallels of the current regime in America.

And regarding minority special interests that is a fabrication of the GOP Neocons. What minorities want, is equal rights. Gays have no demands for special interest. We only want to be given what every non-gay person is getting in our country. After all, most of us work or have worked hard and should expect to be treated with equality. But of course we are not. The very same thing can be said for every minority on your list and those that are not on your list as well. So learn a little bit of what these minorities want for their participation in our society and understand that it is no more than what the Constitution and the bill of rights guarantees.

In my estimation, that we minorities are still fighting for equal rights in the 21st century is despicable. And it is not for special interests in anyone's mind except the Neocon Repuglicans who would destroy America as it was created by the founding fathers.

I find it difficult to believe that a man if your intelligence would fall for such low minority bating as the special interest argument propounded by the Neocon Nazis.


Neither major party these days really wants a melting pot. What they want are special interests -- "evangelicals", blacks, Hispanics, whatever -- following out of loyalty, not out of belief in principles.

The message was too short.
 
Sorry about the mis understanding of your post.



Where do you get that I am not a fan of free speech. I am all for free speech, and as for the Dixie Chicks I love what she said about Bush when they were in London and I support her right to say that 100%.

You know it is funny that we talk about free speech and how we are happy to have it. But the moment someone says something that people don't like they try to censore it or block it or cry foul. Yes we are all guilty of that, but I do believe that people have the right to say what they want and do what they want as long as no one gets physically hurt by it. And you also have the right to submit your comments against what someone else says. I served my country and I still do, and I have pride in the concept of what America stands for and the liberties we have. To say that we have done some fucked up things for God and Country is true, but this country still has a lot of things to be proud of.

Let me ask, where did I say you were against free speech?? I said you two were sounding like the protesters.

What does the US have to be proud of? A 'revolution'(in other words, a rebellion), which revolved around money, uneven political and religious grounds for those not of the majorities, a REALLY fucked up health care system(It will take probably 2-3 REALLY focused presidents, in a row, to get it back on track), the birthing of the KKK, the American Civil War which you butchered yourselves, the swearing in, not once, but twice, of the worst democratic leader the world has ever seen, the starting of two wars that will never end; the War on "Drugs" and the War on "Terror", that enough to be proud of?

EDIT: Reading over your post, about the "liberties" you have, I remembered the Patriot Act, which your government passed(apparently without even reading it) which restricts both your, and everyone else's, liberties.(Say Hi to the NSA and Homeland Security everyone)
 
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