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Mitch McConnell finally confirms he wants to repeal health insurance for 500,000 Kentuckians

He appears to be not dissimilar to any other Republicon. When you ask a "true believer" about the record of any given Republicon, they change the subject. :mad:

No, a good record for a Republican is if he has prevented or slowed the democrats in their evil agenda. A good record does not have to consist of radical change as democrats would define it.
 
No, a good record for a Republican is if he has prevented or slowed the democrats in their evil agenda

Evil agenda?

You mean getting health care for more Americans, getting people jobs, reducing the federal deficit, getting disenfranchised citizens the ability to vote, getting gays the right to marry, and protecting the planet from human activity.

ALL of which, astoundingly, Republicans successfully "prevented or slowed" because they do not believe in any of these things.
 
Republicans stopped you from destroying jobs by swamping the labor market wiith 11 plus million new immigrants willing to work cheaper tha Americans but voting democrat. Dems have not been able to restore employment to the levels which were the rule in the years of the Republican Congress. Republicans failed to prevent democrat increases in the deficit-- but slowed it. Faught to prevent dems from swamping the elections with its usual illegal voting and slowed it. Prevented damage to the US environment from increased immigration. Anything dems have tried to do to preserve the environment has been negated by its obsession with flooding the country with millions and millions more people creating pollution, garbage and emissions. Whether dems have given free health care to the welfare class remains to be seen.
 
Evil agenda?

You mean getting health care for more Americans, getting people jobs, reducing the federal deficit, getting disenfranchised citizens the ability to vote, getting gays the right to marry, and protecting the planet from human activity.

ALL of which, astoundingly, Republicans successfully "prevented or slowed" because they do not believe in any of these things.

No kidding. The House GOP especially has no policy right now except tearing things down.
 
Republicans stopped you from destroying jobs by swamping the labor market wiith 11 plus million new immigrants willing to work cheaper tha Americans but voting democrat. Dems have not been able to restore employment to the levels which were the rule in the years of the Republican Congress. Republicans failed to prevent democrat increases in the deficit-- but slowed it. Faught to prevent dems from swamping the elections with its usual illegal voting and slowed it. Prevented damage to the US environment from increased immigration. Anything dems have tried to do to preserve the environment has been negated by its obsession with flooding the country with millions and millions more people creating pollution, garbage and emissions. Whether dems have given free health care to the welfare class remains to be seen.

I have no doubt that you believe all of this.

That Republicans were responsible for the prosperity during the Clinton years, and Democrats responsible for the economic collapse that happened after GWB implemented Republican economic reforms. That Republicans reduce the deficit and Democrats increase it. That a horde of filthy immigrants is responsible for pollution. That health care is a bad thing to give to people. That gay marriage damages families. That America is threatened by hordes of fake voters, all cooperating to throw elections in the same direction.

The problem most of us have with you, ben, is that we do not live in your world. We can't see the unicorns or the demons you keep insisting are all around us. And it doesn't help that you keep pointing to evidence of their non-existence, in order to support your case.
 
Evil agenda?

You mean getting health care for more Americans, getting people jobs, reducing the federal deficit, getting disenfranchised citizens the ability to vote, getting gays the right to marry, and protecting the planet from human activity.

ALL of which, astoundingly, Republicans successfully "prevented or slowed" because they do not believe in any of these things.

Evil agenda?---getting gays the right to marry?
I find it a bit peculiar that opposition to getting gays to marry would appear on a predominantly gay website..

There is a bit of irony here. Kentucky has been one of the most affirmative states in acceptiing the ACA. Why would anyone in his right mind choose to oppose such a successful law?


 
I have no doubt that you believe all of this.

That Republicans were responsible for the prosperity during the Clinton years, and Democrats responsible for the economic collapse that happened after GWB implemented Republican economic reforms. That Republicans reduce the deficit and Democrats increase it. That a horde of filthy immigrants is responsible for pollution. That health care is a bad thing to give to people. That gay marriage damages families. That America is threatened by hordes of fake voters, all cooperating to throw elections in the same direction.

The problem most of us have with you, ben, is that we do not live in your world. We can't see the unicorns or the demons you keep insisting are all around us. And it doesn't help that you keep pointing to evidence of their non-existence, in order to support your case.

Those are your words not mine. You are foolish to believe that only Clinton was responsible for the prosperity during the years of of the Republican Congress, that GWB was in some way responsible for the melt down in 2007, that the deficit has nor been greater under Obama. You believe that immigrants, unlike other people, do not create pollution, emissions,garbage and sewage. And you believe that states should not be allowed to ensure honest elections.
 
^ As I said, I have no doubt that you believe all of that stuff.
 
I was talking to a friend who is in the insurance industry (thought NOT health insurance) - he pays attention to these issues. Maybe not in Kentucky specifically, as he doesn't live there, but he was trying to tell me something like:

"WATCH OUT next year! The insurance rates are going to skyrocket! The rates for Obamacare this year are based on insurance for HEALTHY 27-YEAR-OLD MALES, and in 2015 they will adjust to the reality."

He is a Republican, but I don't consider that one way or the other regarding the validity of what he says.

However, I have my doubts, SERIOUS doubts, because aren't the insurance companies setting the rates? Isn't there a part of that relatively new law saying that 80% of all premiums need to go toward actually paying for medical care? Obamacare is still being run by the insurance industry (NOT run or "owned by" the government), and I would think that insurance companies would set rates scaled on age factors and such, as they have always done.

I haven't heard anything about Obamacare which requires insurance companies to equalize premiums between those who are 26 years old (and therefore no longer under their parents' policies), and people who are 64 years old.

Something tells me this is rubbish, him saying that that all people under Obamacare are paying the premiums of healthy 27-year-old guys. I tend to believe that insurance companies have already set and been using premium rates which have caused them not to lose their collective asses in 2014, otherwise I'd be hearing about the medical insurance companies "going down" or something! Does anybody know for sure? This is notoriously hard to research.
 
Remember, the primary reason for Obamacare is to give the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illnesses. That can only work by charging healthy people disproportionately high premiums.
 
Remember, the primary reason for Obamacare is to give the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illnesses. That can only work by charging healthy people disproportionately high premiums.

It can also work by increasing the size of the risk pool.
 
It can also work by increasing the size of the risk pool.

If a healthy young man were charged a health insurance premium based on the risk he presents, his premium would be very low. But elderly people present risks far higher than a premium they can afford. So, health insurance has been sold to groups, with the young subsidizing the old. As a result a large portion of the young simply did not buy health insurance. Now Obamacare adds those with preexisting illnesses with expenses far out of proportion to any affordable premium. The result is necessarily to raise the premiums of the healthy far above their risk. A larger risk pool would not solve the problem because many or most of the healthy will forgo the insurance as they already do. The purported Obama solution is to FORCE the young to buy insurance at gouge premiums. That will not work because many simply would not make enough to support the premium, and would chose to join welfare/crime underground economy. So, the Obama solution is to subsidize premiums with taxed or borrowed money. Then, no doubt, the democrat plan is to subsidize more and more for more people, giving socialized medicine to the mostly democrat lower income groups at he expense of the fewer and fewer people paying taxes.
 
The purported Obama solution is to FORCE the young … to join welfare/crime underground economy.

Something doesn’t seem quite right about your conclusions. Perhaps I will better understand if you share some research results.
 
Remember, the primary reason for Obamacare is to give the gift of insurance to those with preexisting illnesses. That can only work by charging healthy people disproportionately high premiums.

Americans should go back to the way insurance used to be in the US before obama ruined it my making companies give insurance to the sick. You should privatise police services too along the same lines. If you got broken into, police companies would no longer have to protect you or your property. That would keep policing premiums down for the rest of the customers. But Osama and the Progressive Liberal Kenya Communist HUSSEIN Benghazi Democrat Party just don't understand market logic. Whitewater Lewinsky, Amen.
 
Something doesn’t seem quite right about your conclusions. Perhaps I will better understand if you share some research results.

I assume that you know that the Act requires everyone to buy insurance or pay a fine/tax. See Wikipedia--Obama care. The conclusion that that would have the effect of causing many young people to resort to welfare/crime/underground economy is a hypothetical since I also point out that the Obamacare solution is to subsidize the policies for low income people. But I point out that, even now, many young people do not choose to work, and that problem would necessarily be exacerbated if they were forced to surrender a large part for insurance. Many girls now choose to collect welfare for illegitimate children, as high as 72+ percent of births for some groups. We also know that many young men resort to crime when they cannot find work for wages they consider sufficient--as high as a third for some groups. So, while I cannot prove the hypothetical that forcing the purchase of insurance would dramatically increase the number choosing the alternative economy, it is an unavoidable conclusion.
I suppose with effort I could find others saying the above, but they would not be democrat sources and thus not acceptible here. See this, for instancehttp://newsok.com/health-care-law-winds-up-discouraging-work-upward-mobility/article/5356773
 
… while I cannot prove the hypothetical that forcing the purchase of insurance would dramatically increase the number choosing the alternative economy, it is an unavoidable conclusion.

Each year my state requires me to provide certifications that my motor vehicle’s emission control systems are functioning properly and that the amount of my vehicle’s harmful emissions does not exceed acceptable levels. I must provide that certification in order to qualify my vehicle before I am allowed to purchase annual registration credentials for my vehicle.

Does the cost I pay to a private entity (authorized to provide vehicle emissions certification) represent a tax imposed by my state government?
 
Each year my state requires me to provide certifications that my motor vehicle’s emission control systems are functioning properly and that the amount of my vehicle’s harmful emissions does not exceed acceptable levels. I must provide that certification in order to qualify my vehicle before I am allowed to purchase annual registration credentials for my vehicle.

Does the cost I pay to a private entity (authorized to provide vehicle emissions certification) represent a tax imposed by my state government?

No. The law does not require the payment, only the certificate. The examiner does not have to charge.
 
No. The law does not require the payment, only the certificate. The examiner does not have to charge.

I should add, the law does not require that you have or drive the car, but only that you have the certificate as a condition to driving the car.
 
Does the cost I pay to a private entity (authorized to provide vehicle emissions certification) represent a tax imposed by my state government?

No. The law does not require the payment, only the certificate. The examiner does not have to charge.

The term “implicit tax” is sometimes used to describe an indirect cost that results from a government policy. Without the policy there would be no cost, therefore associated costs may be described as an implicit tax.[SUP]*[/SUP]

Though the examiner is not required to charge a fee for his services, it is unlikely that he will provide that service without the fee. Testing requires an item of equipment that can cost from $16,000 to more than $37,000. Even without a fee, the testing process consumes human resources and thus represents a cost.


So, while I cannot prove the hypothetical that forcing the purchase of insurance would dramatically increase the number choosing the alternative economy, it is an unavoidable conclusion.
I suppose with effort I could find others saying the above, but they would not be democrat sources and thus not acceptible here. See this, for instancehttp://newsok.com/health-care-law-winds-up-discouraging-work-upward-mobility/article/5356773

The situations you use to illustrate an “alternative economy” are somewhat bizarre and detract from any solid measure of validity for the points you might otherwise be able to make. Nonetheless, let’s look at your link.

NewsOK is the online version of The Oklahoman newspaper. It is owned by Philip Anschutz and the article you linked is attributed to the paper’s Editorial Board.

While it is arguable that the publisher fosters a general bias favoring Christian values, Conservative opinion and against regulation of the petroleum industry, I also note that it presents Dr. Mulligan’s working paper as “damning” [of Obamacare] and suggests that Obamacare includes “perverse incentives.” Neither of those terms or any similar remarks appear in the work they cite in their article.


The conclusion that that would have the effect of causing many young people to resort to welfare/crime/underground economy is a hypothetical since I also point out that the Obamacare solution is to subsidize the policies for low income people. But I point out that, even now, many young people do not choose to work, and that problem would necessarily be exacerbated if they were forced to surrender a large part for insurance. Many girls now choose to collect welfare for illegitimate children, as high as 72+ percent of births for some groups. We also know that many young men resort to crime when they cannot find work for wages they consider sufficient--as high as a third for some groups.

… I suppose with effort I could find others saying the above

I think it is effort that you are missing. ;)

You posted provocative generalizations about young people, low-income people, and girls with illegitimate children. And you pointed to the NewsOK article to substantiate your claims. That article itself relies upon Dr. Mulligan’s working paper to make a somewhat similar claim with regard to low-income people – that they are being provided health insurance “in exchange for forgoing the dream of a better life through employment opportunities.”

Dr. Mulligan sees government assistance as a contributing cause of reduced employment levels, rather than as support to persons who are involuntarily unemployed or underemployed. He regards his position to be representative of conventional economic analysis and discredits Keynesian economic theory. He generally rejects the concept of a demand driven economy (goods and services), but prefers to see the supply and demand of labor as the critical determinant of employment levels.

Dr. Mulligan’s working paper uses a very specific demographic to support his conclusions. It is a worker that fits the following characteristics:

  • Works for an employer that offers health insurance to full-time workers
  • Works for an employer that contributes 22 percent toward the total health care premium
  • Qualifies for ACA subsidies based upon being the sole wage earner supporting a family of four
  • Earns approximately $18 per hour
  • Works 50 weeks per year
  • Selects the ACA Silver Plan for health insurance

That specific demographic does not seem particularly representative of young people or unwed girls with children. The worker earns about $36,000 per year (assuming there are no paid vacation or sick days), which is 50 percent more than the poverty level for a family of four and roughly equal to the upper threshold of the low-income designation for a family of four in the State of Oklahoma. (US median household income is nearly 20 percent higher than Oklahoma.)

[SUP]*[/SUP]Dr. Mulligan argues that the ACA constitutes an implicit full-time-employment tax and an implicit earnings tax. The latter “tax” is perhaps better described as a disincentive for workers to seek higher wages, because their ACA eligibility for assistance decreases as their income increases.

For Dr. Mulligan’s illustration to be convincing, I think he would need to include analysis of at least several sample workers demonstrating varying circumstances. His underlying hypothesis is that workers will no longer be motivated to work (or stop working full-time) if the government (through provisions of the ACA) provides assistance to help pay health care policy premiums or for out-of-pocket health expenses to persons who are eligible.
 
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