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Most People Are Not Straight Most People Are Bi

i am yet to see any data to support that.
i think einstien would not disagree, at least not objectively, though there is a lot of subjective psychological push away from the understanding that life is simply a chemical reaction. many people seem to have a need to view themselves as alternate objects of some higher plane, not products of universal physics.

shakespeare was not biologist (neither was einstien, but he was at least in the scientific field). when discussing an organism, cite biologists, MDs, DVMs/VMDs, and PhDs; or at least BSs, not writers. also he was of an era where they didnt know about the cell, quite frankly he was ignorant on the subject. he is an artist, his talent was imagination, not knowledge and reason.

ghandi? im sorry, but a hindu, who is told from birth that all creatures are equal is probably more prone to agree with me then you seemed to think. unfortunately that agreement would be incidental as it is on the basis of faith, which is literally the belief in something without any evidence, also called delusional.
religion is not something to should ever be cited except possibly to disprove itself. it was a crutch used to try and understand the world. now it is no longer needed, a vestigial structure that persists in some weaker-minded people who need the extra support of being told they are gods special little worker bee. "There is no God, Nature sufficeth unto herself; in no wise hath she need of an author."

if we are another organism in the kingdom animalia, then you are just biochemistry. if we are something more, you bear the burden of proof. find and isolate that extra part.




As you have stated there are innumerable factors that go into determining a person’s sexuality, genetics playing a big role, therefore biochemistry (currently) cannot and will not explain all the psychological/environmental reasoning behind sexuality and psychology only goes so far as well. You cannot simply put it in a box because human emotions/logic (reasoning) is in itself eternally/irrational and subject to change as one ages and gains new experiences. This also applies to all of their scientific findings in virtually every field of scientific imaginable.
 
I, for one think, regardless of any said sex studies, that the majority of our societies are straight. Just my humble opinion nothing more.
:soapbox:
 
As you have stated there are innumerable factors that go into determining a person’s sexuality, genetics playing a big role, therefore biochemistry (currently) cannot and will not explain all the psychological/environmental reasoning behind sexuality and psychology only goes so far as well. You cannot simply put it in a box because human emotions/logic (reasoning) is in itself eternally/irrational and subject to change as one ages and gains new experiences. This also applies to all of their scientific findings in virtually every field of scientific imaginable.

i think this is an argument of perspective.
i agree with you. genetics play a huge role, as does the in utero environment.
i am not under the impression that sexuality is relatively fully developed by puberty, and all subsequent changes are minor, or are from serious trauma (in which case its more psychological scarring than development).
but look at it this way. genetics are the biochemical interactions between the genome and epigenome to produce various amount of proteins that can vary in concentration and potency - biochemistry. in utero environment plays its role by how much androgens are present (there are two hypothesis, one that homosexual males were over exposed to androgens, accounting for various physical attributes such as the larger average genitals in homosexual men, and another, less prominent but reasonable one that homosexual males are underexposed to testosterone accounting for more feminine than average neurology). the action of testosterone and other androgens on androgen receptors of a fetus's cells is biochemistry.
but what about psychology and emotion and logic? well all emotion, and thought for that matter, is the release of neurotrasmitters from one cell to another inducing the firing of action potentials to release more neurotrasmitters in response. all thought can be (and is, on a biological level) expressed as neurochemistry, a subset of biochemistry. we do not know a lot about it, because seeing it in action is kinda tricky. however we do know the basics, and we definitely know its there.
aging is primarily a biochemical process. and avoidable one at that, for many species. its a combination of an absence of telomerase in most cells, preprogramed apoptosis, and the build up of mutations in cells, among a few other factors. all biochemical. gaining experience is back to neurochemistry.

i understand what you are saying. but i view it through a different lens.
 
There actually are genetic markers found for homosexuality. its not genetically "wrong" because on an evolutionary scale it more than makes up for it in the opposite sex. look up sexual antagonism hypothesis. :)
your sexuality is not what you choose. its what you are hardwired to be compelled to. celebacy is not the same as asexuality for example.

I take it you are referring to this:
The debate over the origin and evolutionary basis of human male homosexuality has attracted and continues to attract the attention of researchers and the public alike. One main source of interest is that various evidence collected in the last decades [1]–[14] strongly points to the existence of genetic factors influencing male homosexuality or bisexuality (GFMH).

from: Research Article
Sexually Antagonistic Selection in Human Male Homosexuality

Andrea Camperio Ciani, Paolo Cermelli, Giovanni Zanzotto

If you notice in there it suggests there might be something that helps..... individuals choose. There are many factors that contribute to and individuals choice on pretty much anything and everything. For instance.... a genetic difference that causes ones eyes to be more susceptible to bright light will contribute to him/her choosing to stay away from bright light sources, or to maybe invest in thick sunglasses. But it in no way forces the individual in question to hide from the Sun. The person may decide he/she doesn't like wearing shades or hiding in shadows so he/she may choose to squint during the day. There are those who have a genetic predisposition toward cancers, but that in no way ensures they will die from cancer, or ever even contract melanoma. There is a major misconception when it comes to terms such as predisposition and influence. Neither is concrete, merely just misguided attempts to try to explain what is not understood. People like to have "causes" to point to reasons for occurrences, whether or not there are actual reasons. As humans we have free will, it is our choices that define us, not genetic code that is "set in stone" from the moment of birth. Otherwise identical twins would be just that - completely identical in every single way. But why does one choose science while another chooses physical activity (Football/baseball/track/etc), or why does one grow tall while the other is shorter? Their DNA is exactly the same, and yet they come out different...... Why? Because who/what we become is determined by our choices not our genes. Don't get me wrong, genetics can play a beneficial role in helping us make our choices (or it can hinder us - an individual with less than average intelligence bent on becoming a rocket scientist.... not impossible, but a long, hard road). Genetics is like a road map on a long journey, it can help you get where you want to go, or you can choose to find your own path.
 
Sometimes, I just wish science would get out of my pants. Labels are a new thing, being openly gay even newer. Straight people should stop pretending to rule the world and everything. I'd say, to keep up with the OP's theory, that more people are bi than presumed. Society needs to get over the "gay thing" and actually move to take care of the planet and its inhabitants. There are bigger and more important issue than whom we all pine for or sleep with.

What an excellent day for an exorcism.

Let me conjure up a gay for pay straight dude.

Hold please.

Shit storm in aisle five. Shit storm in aisle five. Thank you.
 
If gay men can have sex with women for pay (many do it for free to stay in the closet), straight women can have sex with straight/gay/bi women for pay, lesbians can sleep with straight/gay men for pay, then why can't a heterosexual male who is comfortable with his own sexuality have sex with another male for pay. It's all about taking the Viagra, drinking to the point their inhabitants open up a bit more, then imagining the other person as if they were a female while remembering the desperately needed paycheck in the end. I see it no difference from a straight men who are progressive enough to realize he can enjoy getting prostate massaged by his female partner w/o actually being gay because even straight men can respond to the stimulus of having their prostates touched/rubbed.


Sometimes, I just wish science would get out of my pants. Labels are a new thing, being openly gay even newer. Straight people should stop pretending to rule the world and everything. I'd say, to keep up with the OP's theory, that more people are bi than presumed. Society needs to get over the "gay thing" and actually move to take care of the planet and its inhabitants. There are bigger and more important issue than whom we all pine for or sleep with.



Shit storm in aisle five. Shit storm in aisle five. Thank you.


I could never understand this especially when that means that straight men actually have less competition to start relationships with women and form a biological standpoint a greater chance to successfully procreate and raise their offspring. Of course this is ultimately bad because the human population growing out of control and nothing short of a global disaster can keep us from reaching the Ecological sustainability threshold at this point.


asexuals? all humans have a sex.

Not true, I'm an a celibate asexual (in the sense that I am in neither physically, mentally, and/or emotionally attracted to other people in any way nor do I wish to/have the urge to engage in such activity). And there are actually people who choose not to engage in any sexual activity all their lives who aren't even asexual.
 
Not true, I'm an a celibate asexual (in the sense that I am in neither physically, mentally, and/or emotionally attracted to other people in any way nor do I wish to/have the urge to engage in such activity). And there are actually people who choose not to engage in any sexual activity all their lives who aren't even asexual.
you misunderstood me. see the post i was responding to. i was stating that all humans have a sex, not that all humans have sex. you may not feel sexual arousal, but you have sex in the chromosomal sense. you are either male (XY, or XXY or XYY) or female (XX, or X_). with us asexual refers to sexuality, not sex. whereas there are some organsims who truely have no sex, bacteria, many protists, etc.
 
I could never understand this especially when that means that straight men actually have less competition to start relationships with women and form a biological standpoint a greater chance to successfully procreate and raise their offspring. Of course this is ultimately bad because the human population growing out of control and nothing short of a global disaster can keep us from reaching the Ecological sustainability threshold at this point.

What most people fail to understand is that homosexuality is nature's way of saying "STOP MAKING SO MANY GODDAMN BABIES!"
 
Sometimes, I just wish science would get out of my pants. Labels are a new thing, being openly gay even newer. Straight people should stop pretending to rule the world and everything. I'd say, to keep up with the OP's theory, that more people are bi than presumed. Society needs to get over the "gay thing" and actually move to take care of the planet and its inhabitants. There are bigger and more important issue than whom we all pine for or sleep with.



Shit storm in aisle five. Shit storm in aisle five. Thank you.

I agree but just try and tell that to a Justin Bieber fan.
 
In my example, I never said that the female had sex with women. I said that she refrained from sex with men. Ultimately, she is still heterosexual, but she chooses not to have sex with men. I completely understand your point, but your understanding of sexual orientation vs. sexual behavior is limited.
Actually no. If her choice was to abstain from sex altogether she would actually be asexual.

According to many, if not most people, in your example, she would be a lesbian. However, that is not accurate. The female is still not attracted to women. Her orientation is still that of a heterosexual, even if she wants to have sex with women.
You claim to understand my point, but this proves you do not. One's sexual orientation is based on who one has sex with. If she chooses to have sex with men she would be heterosexual. She is not heterosexual just because she chooses NOT to have sex with women. You are looking at the issue under the misguided concept that one is born with "sexual orientation". That is not true. It is a concept that was thought by those who wanted to fight the opinion that alternate sexual behaviors were a disease. By claiming a person was born with their sexuality they hoped to make it more acceptable, all they did was entrench the ideology that it was some form of defect that needed to be repaired. It is a choice made by the individual either directly or indirectly. There are many gays who succumbed to taunting that they were gay when they may not have been. But they accepted they choice made for them by bullies and idiots. Those that didn't really want the choice that was made for them then came up with the "born this way" opinion in an attempt to feel better about the choice, to tell themselves they had no choice, it was just who they are.


You're right. It's her choice, but that choice does not change her innate desire. Not everyone has desires or sensations. For the people who have those desires or sensations, it does not mean that all of them possess those desires for the same sex, opposite sex, or multiple sexes. Unfortunately, you are trying to intertwine sexual attraction, sexual arousal, and sexual behavior and they are three separate areas.
Innate desires change constantly.... The person who says he/she doesn't have thoughts/urges/desires contrary to his/her chosen sexuality is lying, first to him/herself then to others. Humanity is inherently curious, but many fool themselves into denying that fact. We may never understand why.



Anyone can label himself or herself whatever the person wants. However, it does not mean it is accurate and it only devalues the label.
True. This is the case for many who insist they are gay, yet have never had intercourse with a member of the same sex. Actions truly do speak louder than words.

I cannot say that I know exactly what your body experiences, but if you are labeling yourself based on your choices alone, that is inaccurate. Genetics affect people's choices for sexual partners. That does not mean genetics are the only factor in sexual orientation, but genetics are one factor.
Yes this is true. Genetics play a part in a person's choice. BUT..... genetics does not choose in and of itself. Genetics also plays a role in a persons choice of career(s)/occupation(s) but is not the deciding factor. It all comes down to choice, either made by the individual, or by others on the individual's behalf. You yourself have proven the point I am making.

You really need to educate yourself about human sexuality, psychology, and physiology. You are speaking about ideas based on your own worldview, which may have been tainted by past traumatic experiences with sex and sexuality.
You done put the cart before the horse. I am well versed in psychology and human sexuality. I just don't get locked up in the latest whims and crazes, even the ones that keep coming around because there are those who can't let misguided notions go. My "traumatic experiences served to open my eyes to the much larger picture. The problem is very few people are able to comprehend, Its like an old dot matrix image..... Most people are looking too close to see more than individual ink spots..... But when you step back and see the whole thing you can make out the actual image.

Wow, this is very good information.
Is this where the kinks come into play?
where people are getting off from all sorts of different things such as golden shower, fisting, scat, pain, bondage, master and slave, being tied up .... etc ?
Short answer.... Yes. Personally I'm not much into the bondage thing.... too many bad childhood memories. But my partner loves being "tortured". Because I love him I have actively chosen to participate and it has been growing on me these past 8 years.
 
Actually no. If her choice was to abstain from sex altogether she would actually be asexual.

Actually, yes. 1) If she has not had sex with a male, for whatever reasons, she is still heterosexual. She may be celibate, she may not have found a guy with whom she wants to have sex, but she is still heterosexual. The sexual attraction is there. A person who is asexual does not experience attraction to either sex, but he or she may have had sex with the same sex, the opposite sex, or both sexes.

You claim to understand my point, but this proves you do not. One's sexual orientation is based on who one has sex with.

No, not at all. Again, sexual orientation is determined by sexual attraction. How one chooses to express his or her sexual attraction or lack thereof, is sexual behavior. For example, a gay male who has always known he is gay may have had sex with women in order to gain acceptance, however, he is still gay. His attraction was solely to men, even if he was able to perform with women.

If she chooses to have sex with men she would be heterosexual. She is not heterosexual just because she chooses NOT to have sex with women.

Are you trolling? In my example, I never inferred that the female was a lesbian or bisexual. I said that she possesses a desire for men and has not acted upon those desires. She is still a heterosexual female, but she has not acted on her attractions. That does not automatically mean that she has desires for the same sex to any degree.

You are looking at the issue under the misguided concept that one is born with "sexual orientation". That is not true.

I've already addressed the idea that sexuality has multiple components to it. However, one of those components is a genetic predisposition. There is a strong psychological predisposition to one's sexual orientation that can be influenced by environmental, biological, and sociological factors.

It is a concept that was thought by those who wanted to fight the opinion that alternate sexual behaviors were a disease. By claiming a person was born with their sexuality they hoped to make it more acceptable, all they did was entrench the ideology that it was some form of defect that needed to be repaired. It is a choice made by the individual either directly or indirectly. There are many gays who succumbed to taunting that they were gay when they may not have been. But they accepted they choice made for them by bullies and idiots. Those that didn't really want the choice that was made for them then came up with the "born this way" opinion in an attempt to feel better about the choice, to tell themselves they had no choice, it was just who they are.

Actually, it is more than just a concept. As of now, it is generally agreed in multiple areas of the social sciences that there is a strong genetic component to one's sexuality. As for the "born this way" statement, that applies to many ideas, not just sexuality.

Innate desires change constantly.... The person who says he/she doesn't have thoughts/urges/desires contrary to his/her chosen sexuality is lying, first to him/herself then to others. Humanity is inherently curious, but many fool themselves into denying that fact. We may never understand why.

No. That is a huge sweeping generalization to speak for over seven billion people on earth. Furthermore, everyone does not experience fluctuations. For the people who do experience fluctuations or changes, it is not always related to sexual orientation. Last, for those people who may be curious, it does not necessarily mean that they experience any physiological or biological change in their sexuality. Curiosity can be as simple as questioning or having a passing thought.

True. This is the case for many who insist they are gay, yet have never had intercourse with a member of the same sex. Actions truly do speak louder than words.

However, one's actions do not always express his or her inner most thoughts or desires. Sexual behavior does not always equate to sexual attraction.

Yes this is true. Genetics play a part in a person's choice. BUT..... genetics does not choose in and of itself. Genetics also plays a role in a persons choice of career(s)/occupation(s) but is not the deciding factor. It all comes down to choice, either made by the individual, or by others on the individual's behalf. You yourself have proven the point I am making.

However, a person's choice, as you keep stressing, is still going to be affected by factors such as genetics, conditioning, environment, opportunities, etc.

You done put the cart before the horse. I am well versed in psychology and human sexuality. I just don't get locked up in the latest whims and crazes, even the ones that keep coming around because there are those who can't let misguided notions go. My "traumatic experiences served to open my eyes to the much larger picture. The problem is very few people are able to comprehend, Its like an old dot matrix image..... Most people are looking too close to see more than individual ink spots..... But when you step back and see the whole thing you can make out the actual image.

No, you're clearly not versed in it. When you keep equating sexual behavior to sexual orientation, you clearly have a limited understanding.
 
i agree with angel, there is a difference between asexual, and celibate. if the hypothetical woman feels attraction to men, but chooses not to act on them, she is a celibate heterosexual, like many highschool girls that are not yet sexually active. if she feels no attraction to men or women, then she is asexual.
 
So I have to define myself to a study that was made in 1948.
I don't think so.
and my views on sexuality and gender are constantly evolving.
 
My favorite quote for this situation is that of one of my best friends who we could label as Bi but he hates labels. "if I like them and they like me then why not?"
 
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