Fair warning - my response is going to come off as argumentative and perhaps even hostile, probably because it is:
Straight people says that bi men only wants to have sex and they don t know what they want.
They do? Strange, most of the straight people
I deal with personally tend to to consider homosexuality, heterosexuality and bisexuality to be more or less equally valid. Then again, I'm an egomaniacal curmudgeion and I do my best to limit the people with whom I deal.
Gay men says bi men are gay men who don t accept themselfs.
Because of course
they know.
Also, I'm a gay man and I don't say that.
Let me put it this way: Before I came out as gay, I called myself straight. When I decided to come out, I came out as gay. To me, this is the coming-out experience - straight, then gay. I do not assume it is like this for everyone. Some people might come out as bi first (though I can't imagine why) or even experiment with any number of other identities along the way ("bi-curious," "heteroflexible," "straight but open-minded," or what-have-you). But still, most of the gay people I know were presumed to be straight (or suspected of being gay) before coming out. This doesn't mean that I believe that all straight people are just waiting to come out, merely because in my experience a large number of gay people at first identified as straight.
Likewise, just because a huge number of gay people first identified as bisexual, it doesn't follow that all bisexual people are just gay people waiting to happen. If this gay "self-acceptance" is inevitable, then there is no reason to even have this discussion. On the other hand, if it is not inevitable, that means that the bi-to-gay conversion rate is not yet 100%, which means that there are at least some bisexuals who seem perfectly content to remain bisexual, i.e. not every guy who identifies as bi necessarily comes around to being gay. One of the nicest bi guys I know eventually settled down with a woman, and to my knowledge he didn't stop calling himself bisexual just because he was being monogamous (and thus, perforce monosexual).
Bisexuality don t exist.It s a temporary thing.
Picking a nit here, transience doesn't make a thing false;
life is "a temporary thing," and that doesn't make it any less
real.
If you are true with yourself you will choose the one you like the most.Most of the time men choose to be with men so they are gay.
I don't stop liking strawberry ice cream just because I like chocolate more.
Hell, I don't even stop loving one guy just because I love another more; my feelings for the first guy wouldn't be nonexistent or false, just less powerful. Why would attraction to one sex or the other be any different.?
I know 3 ex bi men that are gay today.They have their boyfriend.
I'm no demographer, but I'm pretty sure that sample is not "statistically significant." By that logic my first three experiences would have given me a terrible opinion of lesbians.
RRRalph i disagree with a lot of things that you said in your previous post.Like others bi men you try too hard to distence yourself from being gay.
Possibly because, being bi, he is not gay?
It s clear that you don t want to admit that your gay.
I'm not a dentist. And were I thought to be a dentist by anyone I would be reluctant to admit it.
You were giving clues about that.Your gay pride thing,your most bi man prefer masculine gays,you said that you have 30% gay sex.
Um... I'm
gay and I prefer "masculine" guys. I don't see that as distancing myself from being gay, so I fail to see why different rules should apply to bi guys.
The ex bi men i know said the exact same things when they were thinking that they were bi men.They were not happy with gay men because in gay pride gay men you see are not representative of gay men.1 of the 3 said he was 30% gay,another 1 said he was 15% gay and the other said he was 5% gay.At the beginning they were saying they were straight.Some months after they were saying they were bi men.They had sex with men and women.It was like that for some years.They were saying they have sex with men only for sex and when it was the time to have a serious relasionship they were with women.They were acting like they were more straight than gay.When they were with their straight men friends they were acting straight but when it was time to have sex they act gay.They done it for a long time.
1 of them took 7 years to finally admit that he is gay,the other took 6 years to say that he is gay and the other took 3 years to say that he is gay.At the beginning they really believe that they were bi men and they try very hard to convinced themselfs that they were bi men.But with years they see what they really are.GAY
In the 80s elton john were saying he was a bi man.Not for his career but he was really believing that he was a bi man.The same thing with boy george.
Yeah, and most of the bisexual women I know previously identified as lesbian. Do you see me going about proclaiming that all lesbians are just repressed bisexuals? It's a big world; your results may vary.
Everybody knows that bi men lie to themselfs.
This statement is obviusly false. I don't know that. Most likely bi men in general (whether because they know better or are successfully self-deluded) don't know that. A remarkable number of straight people (at least in my experience) don't believe that at all. So who is this "everybody" of whom you speak?
Only because they think that being a bi man is more good because they have a straight side in them.So for them they are less not normal because they only have 1 gay part.For bi men it s better to be half gay than to be gay.This is ignorance.
You're right about one things: this is ignorance. In my experience, I have met exactly two men who have come out as bisexual and then as gay. The first, I believe, was generally unsure of his sexuality until he had a positive experience with a man. The second wasn't very perceptive, in my opinion.
The problem with bi men it s they don t like the word gay at all.
That's a bold statement. Do you actually have anything to support it?
They are not able to deal with it.Bi men very often believe the stereotypes that gay men are not masculine,men in leather,drag queens ect...
I've met one or two gay men who seem to believe that as well.
The so called bi men don t want to be linked to these stereotypes.They want to distence themselfs from them.
Again,
I want to distance myself from the stereotypes, largely because they don't describe me very well. Again, why should bi guys be any different?
It s all about their insecurities.
I beg to differ; my own studies have tended to reveal that it's often about gay folks' insecurities as well ("What if he/she leaves me for a woman/man?" comes up alot).
A male adult human being.
If your gay are you a real man?
You're hardly an imaginary one.
Depends on one's definitions of "normal."
Is it straight men that are real men?
As real as any of the rest of us.
All this things are in the way for the so called bi men to say that they are gay.Because of that they will not admit or even try to think the possibility that they could be gay.
You mean it couldn't be that lingering and persistent attraction to members of the opposite sex?
Why it s so important to bi men to proof that they are masculine?
Gender qualities are a part of identity. Not all gay men hand in their masculinity as part of the coming-out process. It isn't requires of bisexuals either. And I've often enough had my masculinity questioned on ground of my sexuality that I can undrstand the frustration.
If only these bi men stop trying to proof to be what they are not.They give way too much attention for their manhood.
It's an identity based on
sexuality. If a bi guy
isn't focusing a great deal of attention on his (and possibly his partner's) manhood, I proprose that he might be doing something wrong.
My man is a bodybuilder.He is masculine and he is gay.I m masculine.I m gay.Most gay men prefer masculine men.MOST GAY MEN ARE MASCULINE.
Um, go you.
Keep in mind that you need stability to be in a serious relasionship.When your a bi man you are not stable because you have not make you choice yet.
WTF? :rant: That is so astoundingly... I'm not even sure what words to use. Nonsensical. Your logic does not follow. A bisexual man meets a woman, falls in love, marries her - he's
still bi. A bi man meets a guy, falls in love, marries him, he's
still bisexual. The fact that he has chosen to forsake all others doesn't mean he's never
attracted to any others, and it's as much desire as action that defines sexual identity (otherwise all virgins would have to be categorized as asexual until their first time).
You can t marry a man and a woman.You have to choose the man or the woman.If you take your car to go somewhere you can t stop in the middle of the road because you will not be able to go who you want to go.It s not stable to do that.You have the choice to keep go foward at the place you want to go ( with men ) or you return at your house ( with women).This is stability.If your straight you are stable because you know for sure what you want.If you are gay you are stable because you know for sure what you want.If you said that you are a bi man you are not stable because you have not made your choice yet.
First off, I'm not entirelysure what your car metaphor was supposed to illustrate. Second, repeating your point doesn't make it any more correct; monosexual identity is not a prerequisite for a stable relationship. Besides which, a monogamous couple is not necessarily the
only stable relationshiop out there.
I understand why soilwork will never date a bi man.
To some degree, so do I. But it doesn't mean that I agree with it.
If you want to have sex with soilwork.If you want to make a threeway with a woman soilwork will not want to do it because he don t like women.He is gay so if you want to have a threeway with him it will be with a man.Most gay men don t want to date bi man because of that.You have the proof that gay men can t be with bi men.Bi men have to choose.
.... the HELL? One minute you're saying stability is necessary to a monogmous relationships, and the next you're implying that threesomes are compulsory? Besides: I, as a gay man, could imagine having a threesome with a guy a liked and a woman. It's just that we'd both have to keep our attention focused on him, and he'd better have the stamina to satisfy us both. Sure, he's getting the "better end" of that little undertaking, but I figure I'd get mine back when comes my turn to pick what we'd do.
When bi men have sex with 3 women in 1 year and they have sex with 17 men in 1 year.They saying that they are bi men.They are not.Why it s so hard for the so called bi men to admit that they are gay.
Having sex with woman and men: sounds bisexual to me.
I love men.Men it s my passion.I love beautiful men.I love bodybuilders.My first fantasy was jean claude van damme.I love men with muscles.We are romantic.We are monogamous.My man and me are happy.
um... again, good for you.
RRRalph
If you try to be in a serious relasionship with a man it could works.You could be happy with the man of your life.You can t be with a woman only to be more accepted with straight people.
I pretty much agree with everything you just said, in the abstract. Though it may or may not be that RRRalph himself could ever have a serious relationship with a man (I wouldn't presume to speak for you, RRRalph), I do believe that relationships with men can work and I do agree that the acceptance of straight society is not a good reason to pursue women over men. Particularly since same-sex couples are becoming a little more acceptable in any case.
The ex bi men i know was often with women like women was a shield to protect themselfs from what they really are.They were thinking if they had sex with women they would pass as straight and be considered normal.When it s was too hard for them they finally admit that they are gay.
News flash: to my knowledge biseuxality isn't really considered much more "normal" than homosexuality, and bisexual people get the added joys of taking crap from straight
and gay society, so I don't really see how it would be motivated by "fitting in."
A lot of bi men will admit that they are gay when they will be older.They will regret it because they will see that being gay is not that hard after all.Maybe you are in the beginning of your so called bisexuality so you begins to discover your sexuality.If you are true with yourself eventually you will admit that you are gay.It depends on you if you accept to be gay or not.
I disagree. I think that a lot of bi men who claim a gay identity later in life will do so out of convenience more than some epiphany that they've been lying to themselves the whole time.
Everybody knows that most of the so called bi men have sex with men most of the time.They prefer sex with men.They are gay but they are not aware of that yet.
Again,
I don't know that, and most bi guys I've personally met have had only one or two experiences with men, but overall seemed to prefer women. So, if my personal (second-hand) experience contradicts yours, who wins?
I don t believe in bisexulity at all.
You're not required to, but if you're going to make the case against its existence I'd prefer something a little more compelling
RRRalph
I know you will not agree with the things i said.You will saying what you are talking about,it s not true,bi man exist bla bla bla.BUT.
Bisexuality is the way before homosexuality.
Again, so is heterosexuality. Doesn't mean that's always the way it turns out.
You have the choice to take the most easy way bi man or you have the choice to take the most hard way gay man.
...and the "hard" way is more desirable or admirable?"
It s better to be happy being gay and not being accepted by straight people than being not happy being a bi man and be more accepted by straight people.
I still don't get this. I have never encountered a straight person who had a problem with gay people but was okay with bisexual people. I still fail to see how bisexuality wins greater hetero-acceptance. I just don't buy it.
A lot of bi men act like they are better than gay men.They think they are better because they are suposeddly less gay.
And a lot of gay men act like they're better than bi men. and so long as they keep sneering at one another, I suspect the cycle of contempt will continue.
RRRalph you can say all you want but it s true.If the ex bi men i know were lying about being bi men so all the bi men lie to themselfs only to feel more secure with themselfs.
No. No no no no no. No. This is NOT the way it works. Your "ex-bi" friends are not necessarily exemplary of bi men a s a whole.
The ex bi men i know don t believe in bisexuality anymore.Before they admit that they are gay they were saying the same things that you try so hard to proof in your post.Today they are gay and happy with their men.It will be the same for you if you accept to be gay of course.
And if they used bisexual identity as some kind of ineffectual shield against homophobia, then perhaps it is comforting for them to believe that countless other bisexual men are engaging in the same deception - if
everyone tells that same lie once in a while, then perhaps it's a little less wrong. But they still can't speak for bisexual people everywhere, only for themselves.
Don t take it the wrong way because it s not against you at all.
If the ex bi men i know are gay today it s because it s the same thing for the others.
Why is it the same for others?
They were bi men before and even them admit that bi men don t exist because it s temporary.
Again, "temporary" does not equal "nonexistent." If I catch a cold and it passes, then I'd still be lying if I said the cold never existed.
A lot of the so called bi men will admit that they are gay someday.
So what? What aboutthe ones that won't? Sure, maybe
some of them are just gay guys who will never "come all the way out," but are you seriously saying that there is no possibility of a guy who genuinely is attracted to both sexes? If so, why not?
Theres nothing wrong being gay.
Damn straight there ain't. Nothing wrong with being bi, either - despite what you say.
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