My friend came out to me.....and he doesn't know I'm gay

[withoutface123]

Hi all! I've been a longtime lurker to this awesome forum that's helped me out on many a lonely night =) I've always thought about getting an account but for some reason never did. But today something happened that got me so....I dunno, excited? That seems too strong. And I felt like I just had to write about it somewhere so....I don't even know if I'm expecting replies or anything, I just really wanna type.

I honestly don't even know what I picked this particular sub-forum. Maybe because to the world outside this computer I'm straight? But I love cock? And abs? And bubble-butts? But I wanna have a wife and kids someday? I dunno.

Anyway, I'm a 20 y/o guy and I've always gone to Christian schools, raised Christian in every which way, etc etc. My particular denomination has quite a "turn-a-blind-eye" attitude toward gay, so this was alwasy something of me that I kept quiet. This friend of mine, we went to high school and then the same college for the Freshmen year, and we've always been very good friends. He went away for a year to study abroad, and I hadn't really talked to him in a while, but I semi-kept up with him on FB and so on. So today someone posted on his FB that they had heard a rumor about him and then a whole comment war erupted back and forth between him and this other person regarding sexuality, and I chimed it with a jokey "I think I know what the rumor is too ahahaha" and immediately he texts me "Who is spreading rumors about me? What do you know? And even if I was gay what would be the big deal?" He kept saying he was coming back to my same college and he didn't want to have this rumor hanging over his head and be so-and-so the "gay" kid (because my university is quite conservative. Like, we don't have pepper and mustard because they're spicy. We randomly have tabasco sauce though.)

So he calls me and we talk about how he's doing and religion and life and etc etc and I guess I had demonstrated that I wasn't a bigot or something and he said to me "Look, I'm telling you this because I trust you and I don't want it to be a big thing when I get back, but yes I'm gay, I've had a boyfriend for 7 months and I just, I love it, I love being gay". And I......tried so hard to contain my excitement. My excitement that, finally, I had a gay friend whom I could one day potentially talk to about my own feelings, with whom I could relate to about struggling between who I am and who the church says I should be. He's already come out to friends where he lives and I think I'm the first from our college to know.

And now I can't wait for school to start! lol But I have no clue how I'm going to act. A part of me just wants to follow him everywhere and be total bffs with him and yet I also feel that if other people know about him and see me then they'll start to think I am as well? Apparently he's only staying for a semester then leaving, so I feel like I'm on a ticking clock as to when's the right moment to tell him about me (if I ever do). And I know someday I'm going to have to face this issue head-on, I just....I am still so excited. I know I probably sound retarded to all you out there but this particular Christian denomination I'm in, it's so much more than just a religion, it really is a lifestyle, almost like its own ethnicity, with the way people are interconnected and we have our own traditions, culture, etc.

Thanks for listening to my giddy little schoolgirl rant.

(And, person, if you happen to be reading this....hi. This isn't exactly the way I wanted you to find out, but there it is lol give me a call...)

 

[Seasoned]

I'm glad you are sharing this with us and very glad you opened an account. I feel badly that you and your friend are so isolated at college. It's tough when religion and culture tell you that's it's not ok to be who you are. Try to remember that you and your friend are not the only two at your college. Do stay friends with him and consider opening up to him as you are able.

I need to offer an aside about religion. To my way of thinking religion ought to enhance one's life, not put one in a position of fear and sadness. I was born gay and felt because of culture, religion and personality that I had to hide it. Culture and religion did me a disservice. To deny the legitimacy of my sexuality is similar to denying someone based on eye color, or anything else that sets one apart and is simply wrong. We are a perpetual minority who has been here from the beginning. Our strength in recent times has been based upon our visibility.

I hope you and your friend will be able to provide each other with a bond so strong that it will help offset some of the emptiness you feel due to your religion and culture.

 

[withoutface123]

I need to offer an aside about religion. To my way of thinking religion ought to enhance one's life, not put one in a position of fear and sadness. I was born gay and felt because of culture, religion and personality that I had to hide it. Culture and religion did me a disservice. To deny the legitimacy of my sexuality is similar to denying someone based on eye color, or anything else that sets one apart and is simply wrong. We are a perpetual minority who has been here from the beginning. Our strength in recent times has been based upon our visibility.

Thank you for this. A huge part of my struggles is definitely due to the culture of my church, but a small part of me is actually worried for what the Bible actually says. Like, how do I deal with verses that sound pretty explicit about "sexual immorality" and what is "unnatural" between two men or something? The oft-brought up argument in my church compares homosexuality to pedophilia...both are "sexual deviations" from the norm with which people can claim to have been born with, so why should homosexuality be looked upon as ok and pedophilia not? I know this all probably sounds silly, but it's only been recently that I've begun to truly question the legitimacy of religion and whether there is a God who is enumerating all my "sins" and who I'm going to have to be held accountable for, and I can't just throw the Bible out of my life willy-nilly.

 

[xrph1670]

The same verses in the Bible that say Homosexuality is a sin also say that we can't eat bacon, and that premarital sex between a man and a woman should result in both being put to death. My guess is that you eat bacon in your college cafeteria--and there is some premarital sex going on. How is it that they've picked and chosen which verses to follow and which to ignore.

I've lived my whole life deeply in the closet and think I am finally beginning to find the courage to come out. I admire so much those who live their lives freely...and am tired of living alone to make others happy with who I am. Be who you are. Hopefully, I won't be far behind you.

 

[withoutface123]

The same verses in the Bible that say Homosexuality is a sin also say that we can't eat bacon, and that premarital sex between a man and a woman should result in both being put to death. My guess is that you eat bacon in your college cafeteria--and there is some premarital sex going on. How is it that they've picked and chosen which verses to follow and which to ignore.

Actually...we don't. The cafeteria is completely vegetarian and my denomination as a whole follows the food guidelines of no pork, shellfish, etc. (you can probably by now guess what I'm a member of). And the college forbids premarital sex (but I can def tell you that that is happening). But I don't understand why we follow some of this stuff and not some of the other random stuff like when a woman has her period, she has to leave the community for 7 days to "bleed" elsewhere....it's like wtf, why have certain things become "outdated" and not others?

I've lived my whole life deeply in the closet and think I am finally beginning to find the courage to come out. I admire so much those who live their lives freely...and am tired of living alone to make others happy with who I am. Be who you are. Hopefully, I won't be far behind you.

I'm pulling for you, man. Although I have a feeling you are already far ahead of me. Sometimes I wonder if I ever even will come out.

 

[Nomenclature]

Actually...we don't. The cafeteria is completely vegetarian and my denomination as a whole follows the food guidelines of no pork, shellfish, etc. (you can probably by now guess what I'm a member of). And the college forbids premarital sex (but I can def tell you that that is happening).

Yes, because we all know Abstinence Only education has been incredibly successful.

But I don't understand why we follow some of this stuff and not some of the other random stuff like when a woman has her period, she has to leave the community for 7 days to "bleed" elsewhere....it's like wtf, why have certain things become "outdated" and not others?

This list has been circulating the internet for awhile, but:




1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not to Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states that he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that, even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev. 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there “degrees” of abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them (Lev.24:10-16)? Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws (Lev. 20:14)?

Sometimes I wonder if I ever even will come out.

Well, the very first step is almost always coming out to other gay people first, which you're doing by making an account here and talking to us. Your friend's gay, too. . .so maybe one day you might find it's safe to come out to him, as well. . .as the first "in-person" gay you've come out to.

 

[Demethostes]

Although you didnt mean to, your comments kind of incensed me, so this will be long and rant-y. Reader beware.

The oft-brought up argument in my church compares homosexuality to pedophilia...both are "sexual deviations" from the norm with which people can claim to have been born with, so why should homosexuality be looked upon as ok and pedophilia not?

I registered just to make this point, so I hope you're grateful. I'm more of a lurker.

the fundamental difference between homosexuality and pedophilia is simple. Consent. With homosexuals, the sexual activities they take part in together are done with complete consent with each other. Both are adults in full legal standing who are capable of making their own informed decisions. Simply put; they are both willing participants.

Pedophilia however, is fundamentally different in that one of the involved parties is a minor. At such a young age as say, 8, the child is not yet developed enough mentally (much less physically) to be able to properly and legally consent to such acts. Period. They might be exceptionally mature for their age, or unusually wise, but as far as the law (and society at large) is concerned, the victims of pedophilia had no consent to give in the first place. Its that simple. They never even had the right to waive in the first place.





Pedophilia is unique (except perhaps rape in general, and I dont think rape is so much a unique class of sexual preference as more of a twisted way of satisfying it, but maybe someone more learned than me could shed some light on that) in that one of the parties involved is incapable of consenting to it.

Think about it. In say, homosexuality, or beastiality, or S&M leather & chains, or virtually any other sexual preference/fetish, whatever you call it, two (or more) of age, legal, consenting adults can agree to whatever fucked up sexual activies they want, provided they stay within the law and do not violate other peoples rights.

for instance, (so long as you're not doing it in plain view, or burning down a building) you can have sex with another guy, dressed up in a chipmunk suit, and strap him to the bed with chains and whips, so long as you're both consenting to this, you're not hurting anyone. Consent is consent. A child is incapable of giving thought-out, informed consent.






Furthermore, who decides the "sexual norm"? Celibate men who prance around in robes and surround themselves with young boys and homoerotic decor like David?

I've begun to truly question the legitimacy of religion and whether there is a God

Critical thinking is always a good thing.

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
-- Galileo Galilei

You will only insult your god by refusing to question him.

I can't just throw the Bible out of my life willy-nilly.

Why not?

 

[bankside]

Nobody has to throw the bible out "willy nilly." You can practice first with a softball so you can throw it with good aim.



I'm kidding. Nobody in my house believes in any religion, or any kind of god. But we have a bible on one of our bookshelves. I think it is next to The Te of Piglet.

The reason we have a bible even though we don't believe it is because Questioning religion or your belief in god is not about hating god, it is just about making sense of things. And maybe 2000 year old fables about what foods you can eat and what clothes you can wear and how the whole universe got started in six days are not the best way of making sense of things.

But, and now I'm not kidding: It doesn't hurt to ask. It doesn't hurt to ask tough questions that your religion might not be able to answer. But any honest question is a fair question, and you don't have to hate something just because you might question it, or even if you totally disagree with it.

Anyway I mention all this because it sounds like you have as many questions about matters of faith as you do about sexual orientation. I'm not sure what to say about your friend, other than to let you know that friends do let each other know about these kinds of things. So you may want to wait until the time is right, but it is kind of a limited friendship if you keep it a secret for a long time.

 

[hotatlboi]

I know this all probably sounds silly, but it's only been recently that I've begun to truly question the legitimacy of religion and whether there is a God who is enumerating all my "sins" and who I'm going to have to be held accountable for, and I can't just throw the Bible out of my life willy-nilly.

It's not silly at all. I was the same way until about your age.

When you've had the Bible beaten into your brain as the supposed epitome of perfection since you were very young and not yet able to think logically or independently on your own, it becomes natural to take it as axiomatic.

As far as I'm concerned every religious person has an intellectual duty to themselves to objectively reexamine their faith once they are adults and not continue to believe something just because they were taught it from an authority figure.

Sadly, many religious people are not able to take that important step.

 

[withoutface123]

Yeah, sorry if my comments came off that way, Demethotes. That was basically me regurgitating what I've been taught for the past 20 years. hotatlboi put it right, that growing up and being told that all this info was infallible and then suddenly questioning, it just feels completely wrong, and indeed, that's why I can't just disregard the Bible and its teachings as easily as others have.

But, see, I'd like to think that there could be a world where I can still have my faith and be openly gay, but unfortunately I don't think that's possible in my community/church. Being a Seventh-day Adventist (there, I said it) is almost just as much a part of me as is being gay, if not more.

But anyway, I'm sorry that I steered this into a religious discussion, I know you guys probably get tired of these popping up periodically. Like I said before, I'm really anxious for what this semester is going to bring now. I know a few gay people at my school but none are close friends and none are open about (I've only found out like through facebook and stuff), so this is...something exciting.

(And, wow, rereading that, I made it sound like I'm hoping for some SEX from this guy or something and that's...not what I meant but...he is cute.....)

 

[Demethostes]

Yeah, sorry if my comments came off that way, Demethotes. That was basically me regurgitating what I've been taught for the past 20 years. hotatlboi put it right, that growing up and being told that all this info was infallible and then suddenly questioning, it just feels completely wrong, and indeed, that's why I can't just disregard the Bible and its teachings as easily as others have.

But, see, I'd like to think that there could be a world where I can still have my faith and be openly gay, but unfortunately I don't think that's possible in my community/church. Being a Seventh-day Adventist (there, I said it) is almost just as much a part of me as is being gay, if not more.

(And, wow, rereading that, I made it sound like I'm hoping for some SEX from this guy or something and that's...not what I meant but...he is cute.....)

No problem - trust me, I know alot of people who have been in your shoes. Thats what pisses me off about organized religion... it often brainwashes children who are too young to question what they are told, and then indoctrinates them into adulthood. By that point you're so used to it you just regurgitate childhood teachings like a robot.

I went to my friend's sunday school occasionally as a child, and all I remember is it frustrating the hell out of me.... I knew what the teacher was saying was basically bullshit, (illogical rhetoric about heaven, and difficult-to-answer questions like the presence of evil) but I was too young at the time and too intellectually undeveloped to be able to put together a counter argument.

Essentially, the thoughts were there, but I couldnt put it into words.

Its like Brave New World's hypnopaedic sleep brainwashing shit.


Honestly, there are plenty of big Christian churches who will gladly accept the teachings of Christ and you all under the same roof. Google it



Whats wrong with wanting sex with the guy? If you think hes cute, sneak off with him for a passionate kiss. Maybe a strong sensuous embrace. Go from there and work with it. If you dont "want" to have "SEX" with him by then, you can probably safely call yourself straight.

 

[withoutface123]

Whats wrong with wanting sex with the guy? If you think hes cute, sneak off with him for a passionate kiss. Maybe a strong sensuous embrace. Go from there and work with it. If you dont "want" to have "SEX" with him by then, you can probably safely call yourself straight.

I guess I'm not used to being on such an uninhibited forum! Because, you're right; ever since high school he's just made me want to haha Although I'm pretty sure I don't have to worry about that quoted last part Actually, I meant I wanted to respect that he'll have a pretty solid (and hot) boyfriend at home while he's away at college, but the dorms certainly get lonely...

 

[withoutface123]

Sorry for resurrecting a dead thread, but I guess an update is warranted. Today was the first day back, and I saw my friend, and we talked and talked and talked, and in my head, I always figured that I would tell him at some point during thesemester, when we got better reacquainted, blah blah, but it ended up just coming out of me. And he's totally known. I don't even know why I'm surprised. He certainly was dropping big hints that he knew during our conversation preceding, talking about meeting his boyfirend, heading up to NYC to chill with him for a weekend or something.

And now I'm just in this really weird place. Like, now we can both be open with each other, but not open at all because, again, uber-conserative college, where a piece of gossip like that spreads like wildfire. But it was just so great to be, like, a real person for one evening, to be really me for the first time in my life. And I guess that doesn't mean necessarily that I'm defined by my sexuality, because I feel like myself when on other nights with friends, making jokes and just chilling, but for the first time I was able to be ALL of me, you know?

Anyway, i'm sorry if this is all incredibly boring to you guys and that these are simple truths you've known a long time, but I just had to at least write it down because it feels so....good, I guess?

And now I'm really scared....

 

[sentirpromesas]

I highly recommend any gay who is dealing with being Christian to watch the movie Fish Out of Water: http://www.fishoutofwaterfilm.com/

It's seriously amazing.

 

[sktguy]

Great story. The only thing that brought me down a bit was I was expecting you to say that after he told you that you were able to open up to him about yourself after he told you. I understand though that you have to do it at your own speed but I think that would have made him feel great. Anyway, it's all good and now you can look forward to a new experience when you guys go to school.

 

[withoutface123]

The funny thing is that after I told him tonight, he was like, "Yeah, man, after I told you I was completely expecting you to tell me during that phone call," cuz he's known or suspected since high school. It did feel really good to open up to him, though. So very liberating, and it looks like my journey down the path to coming out has begun...

 

[blackbeltninja]

but it ended up just coming out of me.

Yay! This is good news.

And now I'm just in this really weird place. Like, now we can both be open with each other, but not open at all because, again, uber-conserative college, where a piece of gossip like that spreads like wildfire. But it was just so great to be, like, a real person for one evening, to be really me for the first time in my life. And I guess that doesn't mean necessarily that I'm defined by my sexuality, because I feel like myself when on other nights with friends, making jokes and just chilling, but for the first time I was able to be ALL of me, you know?

I think we probably all do know exactly what you mean. Like you, I'm only out to close friends. Unlike your case, though, they aren't also gay... but you're right, it is nice to be able to say what you're thinking out loud without any repercussions once in a while.

Anyway, i'm sorry if this is all incredibly boring to you guys and that these are simple truths you've known a long time, but I just had to at least write it down because it feels so....good, I guess?

I for one have not found it boring at all.

And now I'm really scared...

This is understandable - it is huge and vastly uncharted territory for you from here on out. I understand the family pressures (although those in mine are just homophobic because they are; not from any religious theory) and the friend pressures and the keeping up appearances, and yeah, you're going to find it hard to keep this all under wraps. Would it be an issue for you to come out at school? You did mention it was quite conservative, but apart from that, you aren't going to get expelled or ostracised or anything?

If no, it might be time to think about coming out to a few more people at the college. You're away at school, so I'm not sure how likely it is to get back to your family and what other knock-on effects might pop up further down the line - in that regard, casual/jokey comments on Facebook can be a bit of a fuck-up for you if family do read them - but at least then it will give you a little less to panic about in your day-to-day activities while studying there.

Easier said than done, of course; I'll admit I haven't quite done it yet...

But hey - good luck with all this. It might be useful to keep popping in here as you go along - we're a nice enough bunch of guys (and girls) for the most part, with the occasional scuffle and bun-fight thrown in to keep things interesting , and if nothing else you know we're pretty much all kinda like you one way or another...

-d-

 

[cinnamontea]

I know I probably sound retarded to all you out there but this particular Christian denomination I'm in, it's so much more than just a religion, it really is a lifestyle, almost like its own ethnicity, with the way people are interconnected and we have our own traditions, culture, etc.

episcopalian?

 

[withoutface123]

episcopalian?

Seventh-day Adventist. Miles behind episcopalians in gay issues.

 

[iwantbig]

i'm totataly undercover and only men i'm actualy having sex with know i'm bi and i don't see this changing. i think it will be awhile but the world is changing slowly , if we all add a gentle pressure like " i don't care who's fucking who so long as every body is happy " maybe one day homophobes will be a minority . who says you cant have the wife and kids and get some cock in your ass as well ? well aids , hiv was a giant leap back wards, but maybe in another age you missus will say " you look a bit down luv , why don't you go out and get a big cock up your ass " .