N A R A L

[Centexfarmer]

Each new thread starts to feel like the continuation of the same old argument.

But I wouldn't feel too bad for him: some people take a kind of perverse pleasure in placing themselves at odds with, what to them, seems like the "conventional wisdom". It's a common thing in forums like these.

As a Moderator of this forum, I can say that you are in fact "preaching to the choir."

 

[Glafna]

^ If it makes you feel better, other than NickCole and iman, and the incessant racism of musicman-bflat, I don't see much infighting between the Dems here. To me, it seems to be a matter of ego, and adds to the veracity of the last line in Noah's post before yours.

In all honesty, I'm talking about the Democratic infighting going on in the states right now.

 

[Glafna]

I read your post and I listened.

And I will not shut up.

I come from a long line of people who've fought hard for what we believe in, sometimes against the kind of odds I face here (IOC7 is right, there are only a few of us supporting Hillary and a vast majority insulting us and our candidate) and we don't shut up.

I spoke and marched and fought in the 70s when we were told to shut up and keep our gay selves behind closed doors, I didn't shut up when I was told to in the 80s when we fought for AIDS attention and research and money, I didn't shut up when I was told to in 2000 when I kept pointing out the truth about George Bush and what it would lead to, and I will not shut up today no matter how much my "fellow Democrats" and fellow gay men insult me and attack me. Sometimes we win and sometimes we lose but I will not shut up, sit down or stop fighting for what I believe in. And thanks for defending me.

You are NOT at a gay rights march, nor are you currently fighting for any cause even related to that. You are arguing that Barack Obama should not be president, through a series of insulting threads and posts, insulting to him and to the Obamaites on here.

I agree, that the Obamites should stop isulting your candidate, but you should stop insulting theirs. I am seeing far more 'Anti-Obama' threads then 'Anti-Clinton'.

Last year, after a Ontario MPP candidates debate, I approached Joe Tascona, a Conservative, and asked him what is his opinion on dirty politics. He said, and I quote, 'What is dirty politics? As long as it's true, it isn't dirty.' I known what he meant, and I know that your pulling the same thing, trying to debate on a low political level, showing disrespect and condemning those who don't follow your beliefs.


Honestly.. American politics confuse me... There's an emphasis on revealing secrets, whether it be that a certain politician is gay, or had an affair, or w/e. There is also emphasis on insulting and abusing the rights of Free Speech...

If I ever think of becoming a US citizen.... I request for someone to so I come back in touch with reality.

 

[Glafna]

Oh, this post #38?

I, like many readers of this forum, have been reading how the Clinton and Obama supporters have been going after each other ad nasueum for months now.

You may not have noticed this, but I can count on one hand the number of posters in both sides of that debate who strive for nothing more than to continue the animosity.

It has been suggested that we segregate all of the Clinton and Obama threads from CE&P so that those five or so members can continue to slug it out while the rest of us continue about discussing other issues, and leave the rest of us alone.

The idea is beginning to gain some traction in my mind.

The reason why I had a stint of staying out of the CE&P forum.


I've noticed it as well.... There will always be people who try to further an argument, because thats what they're good at, arguing with other people. In this case, only a couple of the argument-chasers are.

 

[smelter]

The reason why I had a stint of staying out of the CE&P forum.


I've noticed it as well.... There will always be people who try to further an argument, because thats what they're good at, arguing with other people. In this case, only a couple of the argument-chasers are.

I promised to quit arguing only when its proven that either pigs or penquins can fly. Well to my amazement, it finally happened:

 

[TriBi]

^ hehe...I like that YouTube.

Much more entertaining than the incessant 'Obama/Clinton' arguments...

 

[andysayshi]

How do those little wings lift those big black penguins???!!

Hey, wait a minute... BLACK penguins?? They're all Hillary-hating OBAMA penguins! Or maybe they're white, come to think of it... they're racist CLINTONite penguins, I'll bet!!

Oh hell, by the time the penguins have finished squabbling, the whiskery old veteran sea-lion will be getting ready to eat them for dinner!

 

[Glafna]

I promised to quit arguing only when its proven that either pigs or penquins can fly. Well to my amazement, it finally happened:

Glad to see your listening to reason

Now, lets go get some beer to cement this non-argument deal. I'll buy the first couple rounds.

 

[Glafna]

^ hehe...I like that YouTube.

Much more entertaining than the incessant 'Obama/Clinton' arguments...

Most definatly.

 

[Glafna]

How do those little wings lift those big black penguins???!!

Hey, wait a minute... BLACK penguins?? They're all Hillary-hating OBAMA penguins! Or maybe they're white, come to think of it... they're racist CLINTONite penguins, I'll bet!!

Oh hell, by the time the penguins have finished squabbling, the whiskery old veteran sea-lion will be getting ready to eat them for dinner!

Now now, you know it would be the FISH that eat the penguins, not the sea-lion. Now that's just crazy talk.

 

[smelter]

Glad to see your listening to reason

Now, lets go get some beer to cement this non-argument deal. I'll buy the first couple rounds.

I can't argue with that!

 

[Supernature]

As a Moderator of this forum, I can say that you are in fact "preaching to the choir."

Fair point. LoL

 

[syntax]

If I ever think of becoming a US citizen.... I request for someone to so I come back in touch with reality.

Glafna, if you ever think of becoming a US citizen, I will gladly bash your head against a wall.

 

[NickCole]

You are NOT at a gay rights march, nor are you currently fighting for any cause even related to that.

I am aware of where I am and what I'm fighting for.

I'm also aware that I'm not changing anybody's mind on this forum. If I were here to do that, I would take a different posture. For me there are other venues where I've tried, and succeeded, in changing people's mind about Obama -- something, I've discovered, that's either impossible or pretty easy to do, depending on what's convinced someone to support Obama. If they support him because he's black or because Hillary's a woman or a Clinton, or if they've been seduced by him, there's no way and there's no point in trying; if they genuinely believe in the "hope" and "change" stuff then it's pretty easy to illustrate why Hillary Clinton is the candidate who offers the best hope for change from the Bush & Co downward spiral.

Pointing out where I'm coming from was intended only to illustrate to you, who told me to sit down and shut up, that although I'm eager to listen, I don't sit down and shut up when I'm fighting for what I believe in. I offered you a window to see who I am. But people who tell others to sit down and shut up and listen are never very good at hearing what others are trying to say.

Honestly.. American politics confuse me... There's an emphasis on revealing secrets, whether it be that a certain politician is gay, or had an affair, or w/e. There is also emphasis on insulting and abusing the rights of Free Speech...

If I ever think of becoming a US citizen.... I request for someone to so I come back in touch with reality.

You don't live in the United States and you're not a US citizen and you don't want to BE a US citizen, yet you get in the middle of discussions about my country, our politics, and tell me how I ought to fight for what I believe in in my country, you tell me to sit down and shut up when I'm expressing my opinions about my own nation's elections.

And the funny thing is you scold me for insulting Obama and his supporters at the same time you insult me by telling me to sit down and shut up. I take full responsibility for my insulting posts about Obama and his supporters. At least I'm not a hypocrite about it: I've never told anybody to sit down, to shut up, or how to they ought to express their political opinion. But then I'm a Hillary supporter, and your sit down and shut up line is very like the Obama supporter call for Hillary to drop out of the race before it's over.

 

[iman]

I have not been following this thread and as I read through the posts I'm thankful I haven't. When did it become acceptable in political forums to tell people you disagree with to "sit down and shut up" or respond to every disagreeable idea by personally attacking the person that expresses such an idea. If anyone should "sit down and shut up" it is the posters that are seemingly incapable of defending their positions or candidate and simply attack the person posting or use their grade school vocabulary to call the candidate a four letter name. It's kid's stuff not political discourse.

The Cult of Personality that surrounds Obama is new to American politics, maybe it is due to the abysmal failure of Bush conservatism or the fact that an African American and a woman are the Democratic candidates or a symptom of something larger going on in America, but whatever the reason, it is not healthy politics.

All the candidates are flawed people and flawed candidates, none of them are Great Saviors, none of them are "The Promised One". The only thing that is going to help the world now is an intelligent reasoned discussion of problems, not blind faith and purges of dissenters. This not the Cultural Revolution, waving red flags and Mao books or chanting "Yes We Can" is not the way Western Democracies solve their problems.

 

[MystikWizard]

Iman and NickCole, quit your


and get ....

 

[iman]

Iman and NickCole, quit your


and get ....

----------------------------------------------------

And that is what passes for a riposte from the other side. Am I supposed to respond with dueling emoticons?

 

[kallipolis]

The Cult of Personality that surrounds Obama is new to American politics

The John F. Kennedy cult, still survives after some 47 years.

 

[iman]

The JFK myth came largely after his death. The Kennedys have always been an attractive popular family, but they never engendered the kind of mindless cultishness that we are seeing today.

 

[Centexfarmer]

The JFK myth came largely after his death. The Kennedys have always been an attractive popular family, but they never engendered the kind of mindless cultishness that we are seeing today.

I wouldn't call it "mindless cultishness."

For the first time in my life (sorry Michelle ), I see a segment of the population that has gotten excited about something more than Britney Spears, or America Idol.

I think in some regards, that is a good thing, but what gives some of us pause, is that some of us question the institution that is Britney Spears, and American Idol, and when some begin to look at the office of POTUS in the same regard it becomes a little frightening.

I'm sorry, what was this thread about again?