Native American PWNS immigration protest

[Benvolio]

When Conservatives object to all immigration or all illegal immigration, you claim that it is racial. But when I reverse it and point our that liberals would object if the immigration was white, you claim the immigration is largely white. You can't have it both ways.
The fact is that I object to all immigration except a few doctors, nurses, and scientists, without regard to race.

 

[Rolyo85]

Nobody claimed immigration is largely white (though, frankly, Hispanics are white, but nvm). And you haven't "pointed out" anything, you made a wild and ridiculous claim that has no substance in reality. You can only "point out" existing stuff, not things in your head.

 

[Rolyo85]

What I said was that IF the immigrants were white the liberals would be squawking. But yes, virtually all Democrat legislation contains an anti white element. For instance, the Dodd Frank Wall street "refrom" act requires agencies, financial organizations and contractors to avoid hiring white men to the "maximum extent possible" by hiring women and minorities to maximum extent possible.

It sucks to not be undeservingly privileged anymore, eh? Sorry if unfair advantage was your only way of getting by.

 

[Benvolio]

It sucks to not be undeservingly privileged anymore, eh? Sorry if unfair advantage was your only way of getting by.

You know nothing about my personal success. You have me at a disadvantage. If I discuss your status as you deserve I will be notified by the moderators.

 

[Rolyo85]

You know nothing about my personal success. You have me at a disadvantage. If I discuss your status as you deserve I will be notified by the moderators.

Sounds like it sucks to be you then ^_^

 

[opinterph]

Gentlemen, please dispense with the personal innuendo.

 

[rareboy]

If the immigrants were white, the liberals would suddenly oppose them. "WAIT! These immigrants are taking jobs away from African Americans and Hispanics! They are contributing to our environmental problems, our school problems, our healthcare problems, the crime problem. White immigrants are hurting America. Woe is us."

Once again...just utter drivel.

Liberals aren't opposing immigration.

Libertarians shouldn't be opposing immigration.

And the reforms to encourage the hiring of women and minorities? After centuries of institutionalized segregation, slavery and non-person status, it is sometimes necessary to level the playing field and to change attitudes by integration.

But you are never going to understand this, let alone be convinced. We all get it.

It is why discussion with you on this issue is sterile.

 

[Benvolio]

Once again...just utter drivel.

Liberals aren't opposing immigration.

Libertarians shouldn't be opposing immigration.

And the reforms to encourage the hiring of women and minorities? After centuries of institutionalized segregation, slavery and non-person status, it is sometimes necessary to level the playing field and to change attitudes by integration.

But you are never going to understand this, let alone be convinced. We all get it.

It is why discussion with you on this issue is sterile.

I said, IF immigrants were white, liberals would oppose it. It is no answer to say they do not now oppose immigration.
It is naive to think affirmative action is now to redress past wrongs. Giving AA to immigrants, facilitates discrimination against previous minorities, including African Americans.
It is not a coincidence that Democrat laws mandate hiring the groups which vote Democrat, which forbidding the hiring of white males, the group which least votes Democrats. You just don't get it.

 

[rareboy]

I said, IF immigrants were white, liberals would oppose it. It is no answer to say they do not now oppose immigration.
It is naive to think affirmative action is now to redress past wrongs. Giving AA to immigrants, facilitates discrimination against previous minorities, including African Americans.
It is not a coincidence that Democrat laws mandate hiring the groups which vote Democrat, which forbidding the hiring of white males, the group which least votes Democrats. You just don't get it.

So you just think that you can switch from saying that affirmative action for minorities and women is now tantamount to affirmative action for immigrants at the expense of affirmative action for blacks? HUH? What the fuck goes through your head when you are writing these types of arguments? The minorities category still also includes African Americans. How did it suddenly become about immigrants?

This is, by the way, the same bullshit argument that was used to discriminate against hiring Germans, Polish, Italian, Irish and a host of other populations when they first landed on the shores of the US.

Probably the same argument used against your ancestors at some point.

And you think that all this is just about buying votes?

Well get ready sunshine, because God's Own Party has apparently realized that they'd better start falling in line and stop being the party of angry old white guys like you if they have any intention of governing.

 

[Benvolio]

- - - Updated - - -

So you just think that you can switch from saying that affirmative action for minorities and women is now tantamount to affirmative action for immigrants at the expense of affirmative action for blacks? HUH? What the fuck goes through your head when you are writing these types of arguments? The minorities category still also includes African Americans. How did it suddenly become about immigrants?

This is, by the way, the same bullshit argument that was used to discriminate against hiring Germans, Polish, Italian, Irish and a host of other populations when they first landed on the shores of the US.

Probably the same argument used against your ancestors at some point.

And you think that all this is just about buying votes?

Well get ready sunshine, because God's Own Party has apparently realized that they'd better start falling in line and stop being the party of angry old white guys like you if they have any intention of governing.

As always, you do not understand. Immigrants legally just off the boat also qualify for affirmative action and it is illegal to discriminate in favor of existing Americans. When an immigrant is hired instead of an existing minority member,it is affirmative action but it does not redress past wrongs, and is just more discrimination with different beneficiaries. It destroys the alleged purpose of affirmative action.
And no, when the Irish and all those other groups came there was no affirmative action so it is silly to say the same arguments were made. But then as now, immigration facilitated discrimination against blacks by providing an available substitute.

 

[rareboy]

Just how far do you have to reach to be able to make the kind of point you are making?

The idea that affirmative action is an affront to blacks or one supposes, the millions of Latino Americans that were born in the US is laughable.

You expect a single one of us to believe that you care or even think that white immigrants in the past took the jobs of the slaves and their descendants? You really, actually want us to believe this?

You want to convince me that a white legal immigrant from Europe is putting at risk the employment of African Americans or Latino Americans because of affirmative action? You want us to believe that these would be the people targeted for affirmative action hiring? Where do affirmative action plans use the words 'make sure you focus on giving jobs to all the newly landed immigrants right off the boat?' To be blunt, if someone arrives in the US as a legal immigrant with qualifications to do a job, then there is no reason why anyone should discriminate against them.

You may actually swallow the load of tripe you're serving up....but c'mon. Give the rest of us credit for being smarter than that.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I said, IF immigrants were white, liberals would oppose it. It is no answer to say they do not now oppose immigration.

Yes, you've said that twice now, and that's just something you made up off the cuff, and there's no support for it in history or anywhere else. Plenty of immigration IS white, so this whole "IF immigration was white liberals would oppose it" thing is bull.

 

[xbuzzerx]

- - - Updated - - -



As always, you do not understand. Immigrants legally just off the boat also qualify for affirmative action and it is illegal to discriminate in favor of existing Americans. When an immigrant is hired instead of an existing minority member,it is affirmative action but it does not redress past wrongs, and is just more discrimination with different beneficiaries. It destroys the alleged purpose of affirmative action.
And no, when the Irish and all those other groups came there was no affirmative action so it is silly to say the same arguments were made. But then as now, immigration facilitated discrimination against blacks by providing an available substitute.

Absolutely no competent white student anywhere in America fails to get into a decent college or fails to find appropriate grant, student aid or loan money if they need it, want it, and have the motivation to bother for it.

This myth that college spots are premium real estate and that every spot given to a low income minority has booted a white kid with decent grades out of college somewhere is absolutely myth. The entire concept that Affirmative Action is widely observed anymore or has been for the last 10 years is, equally, myth. It's been gone from the California public universities for at least 8 or 10 years and you'd call us some supposed hotbed of enabling illegals and immigrants and a liberal minority state.

 

[bankside]

What affirmative action fails to do is take into account the individual circumstances of a struggling student. It fails to recognise that one student might be struggling due to racial prejudice, while another student might be struggling due to another kind of injustice. If you are not part of a designated group, it doesn't fix the problem.

 

[Benvolio]

Absolutely no competent white student anywhere in America fails to get into a decent college or fails to find appropriate grant, student aid or loan money if they need it, want it, and have the motivation to bother for it.

This myth that college spots are premium real estate and that every spot given to a low income minority has booted a white kid with decent grades out of college somewhere is absolutely myth. The entire concept that Affirmative Action is widely observed anymore or has been for the last 10 years is, equally, myth. It's been gone from the California public universities for at least 8 or 10 years and you'd call us some supposed hotbed of enabling illegals and immigrants and a liberal minority state.

I was discussing affirmative action in employment as in the Dodd Frank act requiring employers covered to avoid hiring white males to the maximum extent possible.

 

[opinterph]

Immigrants legally just off the boat

I am interested in responding to your post, but need a little more information. Please explain what you mean by the above quoted term. Do you mean persons who become naturalized citizens of the US, or something else?

 

[Benvolio]

I am interested in responding to your post, but need a little more information. Please explain what you mean by the above quoted term. Do you mean persons who become naturalized citizens of the US, or something else?

No, I mean immigrants coming to the US as legal immigrants, but newly arrived. They are allowed to work and come within the definition of minority (if they are not white males) and are protected against employment discrimination on the basis of "national origin".Therefore it is is illegal to discriminate in favor of American citizens, white or minority, on the basis of citizenship. You cannot prefer to hire Americans. They are legally entitled to a preference under Dodd Frank's "maximum extent possible" requirement, over white males.

 

[rareboy]

Well I'm calling you out. I've read Dodd Frank and a number of the commentaries on Dodd Frank.

Where does Dodd Frank include the language that you claim it does......that legal immigrants go to the front of the line, even over 'American' women and blacks.

Section 342 of the Dodd-Frank bill mandates that each federal financial regulatory agency create "an Office of Minority and Women Inclusion that will, among other things, address employment and contracting diversity matters. The offices will coordinate technical assistance to minority-owned and women-owned businesses and seek diversity in the workforce of the regulators."

And more specifically, please cite any legal cases where a legal immigrant has received preferential treatement in hiring practises over white males.

Because otherwise....this just sounds like just another delusional rant from your Stormfront knitting circle.

 

[Benvolio]

Dodd-Frank does not say that legal immigrants go to the head of the line and that is not exactly my claim. It is part of the increasingly convoluted body of employment discrimination and affirmative action law. Several laws must be read together. Dodd Frank does put them at the head of the line over white males. But other laws make it illegal to discriminate on the basis of national origin, so, a preference cannot be given to American citizens, including black, Native American etc, merely because they are citizens. The combined effect is that the original intent of affirmative action to redress past wrongs against minorities, especially blacks, has been destroyed. Now it is just anti-white males who tend to vote Republican. It serves little purpose but to reward groups which vote Democrat.
What other reason could there be for giving (non white male) immigrants an immediate preference over white males.

 

[rareboy]

Jesus Fucking Christ.

Give us the specific language that creates this nightmare scenario for you, or give us the legal cites as I have asked for ....or stop flinging every thing you can get your mitts on to support your spurious claims and specious arguments.

Prove your claim or be silent.

At least you have brought your argument back to the real crux of the matter for you......the possibility that non white males might get preference over a white male. No bullshit about protecting the blacks or women.

...god help us all who bother to read your byzantine rants.