Native American PWNS immigration protest

[youfiad]

I am actually a very huge proponant of illegal immigration enforcement. However, I can't help but agree with the native American.

Let's discuss!

 

[Benvolio]

Logically, he should want an end to the immigration of which he complains. It would improve the Native American low employment problem.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Logically, he should want an end to the immigration of which he complains. It would improve the Native American low employment problem.

Or maybe he like many Natives are legitimately astounded that Americans have the nerve to talk about illegal immigration like it's some kind of persecution they're all suffering considering that they all showed up as uninvited guests themselves. Double standards for the win.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I would think that bringing up the Native American experience would be a reason to become more vehemently anti-immigration, considering how well it worked out for them.

Or it would highlight the people unable to comprehend the difference between people coming here wanting to work within the framework of the society present vs. the people who are overtly destroying it through warfare and conquest.

 

[youfiad]

Or maybe he like many Natives are legitimately astounded that Americans have the nerve to talk about illegal immigration like it's some kind of persecution they're all suffering considering that they all showed up as uninvited guests themselves. Double standards for the win.

This is what he was talking about. Of course there is another element of absolutely no immigration, but he obviously found it ironic that the "whites" would be the ones to complain about uninvited guests.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Really? Is that the case?

Many native american tribes in the United States are similar to those in Northern Mexico. Thanks for the lack of logic.

He probably also missed the fact that North American Natives are basically the same people as Latin Americans who have Indio blood. The fact that two different competing European factions drew a line on a map doesn't change that.

 

[JustMe5]

The entire history of human existence on planet Earth has consisted of people taking over lands that were already inhabited by others. But there's a big difference between invasions that took place in ancient times when the national boundaries that we know of today did not exist, and illegally entering an established country like the USA and expecting to be granted amnesty instead of entering legally and waiting in line. When the first Europeans arrived here hundreds of years ago, there was no actual country. There were simply various native tribes scattered about in what now constitutes the continental USA. So, saying that the USA was "founded on illegal immigration" is a foolish claim when speaking in favor the USA's current illegal immigration issue.

What's the point of having immigration laws in place that are intended to curtail the flow of immigrants into the USA if the government's gonna grant amnesty to the illegals just because they're already here?

 

[xbuzzerx]

The entire history of human existence on planet Earth has consisted of people taking over lands that were already inhabited by others. But there's a big difference between invasions that took place in ancient times when the national boundaries that we know of today did not exist, and illegally entering an established country like the USA and expecting to be granted amnesty instead of entering legally and waiting in line. When the first Europeans arrived here hundreds of years ago, there was no actual country. There were simply various native tribes scattered about in what now constitutes the continental USA. So, saying that the USA was "founded on illegal immigration" is a foolish claim when speaking in favor the USA's current illegal immigration issue.

What's the point of having immigration laws in place that are intended to curtail the flow of immigrants into the USA if the government's gonna grant amnesty to the illegals just because they're already here?

How convenient, the distinction you draw wholesale forgives anything done by the group complaining today, and criminalizes only that being done "against them." And a ridiculously more benevolent less invasive or destructive form of it, let's make no mistake.

 

[csb999]

Illegal aliens to the US . Numbers indicate it is basically Mexicans to California and somewhat less to Texas . I suggest that the situation is entirely the opposite of what is implied , that the currently atypically high US standard of living ( particularly cheap and unusually plentiful food ) is at least partially due to this considerable source of inexpensive labour . It just doesn't make sense to me . Images of Sikh women on buses , men sleeping under the kitchen sink . Funny that fascist groups ( The National Front ) often or usually oppose immigrant labourers regarding them as expenses not exploitable sources of cheap labour . But slavery and apartheid I would suggest made one group very wealthy . And Chinese labourers here built the railroad . Thinking fruitpickers . We've always done quite well off our slaves . Nectarines .

 

[csb999]

illegal aliens thinking the cannery my mother canning asparagus . Exporting or importing illegally the peasant class . Here also the difference between products and services . Premise that the general social attitude should be gratitude not resentment . Practically what you have is one group willing to be slaves so their children can be idle aristocrats .

 

[CowboyBob]

He's got a point.

 

[Benvolio]

None of this is relevant. The only question is whether immigration is good for Americans, including blacks, Native Americans and Hispanics. Plainly it is not good.

 

[xbuzzerx]

None of this is relevant. The only question is whether immigration is good for Americans, including blacks, Native Americans and Hispanics. Plainly it is not good.

Then stop pretending it's an outraged argument over legality. No one today takes tantrums over the legions of completely undocumented Irish or Italian or Ukranian or Jewish or German immigration that happened a century ago because no one cares about the legality of it and on the whole it was a good thing that helped build this country.

without immigration, US population would be decreasing, potentially putting us in a Japan-esque situation (with a growing elderly population and not enough youth to support their social services)... so it's probably a good thing.

my earlier post was mostly a joke. native Americans had no immigration laws as far as I'm aware, so you can't really call the first European settlers illegal immigrants. I suspect that just about everyone would agree that having fully open borders with absolutely no immigration laws whatsoever probably isn't the greatest idea.

The entire concept of right and wrong is dictated by a written record or which society was keeping written records of laws and who broke them is Eurocentric and gets used much like in this very thread to say Europeans showing up and coercing ownership of the continent through any expedient means was no harm no foul and that the migrant laborer and largely work-driven immigration from Latin America "is actually bad."

Or in short-- who cares if it was 'technically' illegal immigration or not according to a law book written up by people who'd done the very thing they criminalize when others do it.

Yes, of course completely uncontrolled immigration is a bad thing. But the degree to which the immigration we receive is "wink wink nudge nudge" because there is a real need and a real benefit from it, and people are taking advantage of it, is completely underblown in most of these discussions, particularly from the nativist reactionaries.

 

[CowboyBob]

None of this is relevant. The only question is whether immigration is good for Americans, including blacks, Native Americans and Hispanics. Plainly it is not good.

Yeah, yeah.... we get it..... we get it.

You're against immigration and anything to do with it. You've made this point a million times and you're just a broken record. Bring it up again a million more times will you?

One-Topic Wonder.

 

[Benvolio]

It is a thread about immigration, Bob.

 

[Rolyo85]

None of this is relevant. The only question is whether immigration is good for Americans, including blacks, Native Americans and Hispanics. Plainly it is not good.

Since when do YOU care about blacks, Native Americans and Hispanics? Oh yes, since you could wave them around to bash immigrants.

And nothing is "plain", so don't just casually mention it as if it's some obvious fact.

 

[bankside]

The Rule of Law has clearly advanced in the several centuries since European explorers set out around the world. No one then had the skill or the werewithal to govern justly and inclusively. It is not surprising that the exploitive cruelty of the European ruling classes of the day, applied thoroughly to the populations of the home countries, was extended as well to the sparse populations of the colonies.

 

[Benvolio]

I am virtually the only one here who ever expresses concern for the poor, or who has a practical plan to help them. Can you point to a single post in which you expressed concern for poor Americans?

 

[xbuzzerx]

I am virtually the only one here who ever expresses concern for the poor, or who has a practical plan to help them. Can you point to a single post in which you expressed concern for poor Americans?

Benvolio, you've never demonstrated through anything other than your say-so that a protectionist, isolationist seal the borders approach would help the lower classes in the country. There's plenty of evidence it would seriously hurt the economy, and virtually no proof it would help it. You say it over and over expecting people to accept your say-so on the matter.

 

[star-warrior]

When I was a kid and occasionally still encounter it, my far east asian appearance would engender calls for me to 'get back where I came from'. Yeah, Sheffield, UK, city of my birth.

Truth is, in the UK, the only really historically native peoples are probably the descendents of the Celts, driven to Wales, Scotland and the more further recesses of our country. The Romans, Saxons, Normans, Dutch and other 'white' influx over the millenia have added to the British blood stock, and so, I agree with the native American Indian.