Native American PWNS immigration protest

[xbuzzerx]

Hispanic is a culture, not a race. Giancarlo has elsewhere bragged that Hispanics will soon have a majority in the US, and has said they are not assimulating. It is legitimate to ask him what kind of economy such a country will have, and how innovative it will be.

You're the only one who has maintained a position that innovation is a function of racial composition. And it's a position you've only incredibly poorly supported, by limiting view of history only to a period of time that favors one group and dismisses the much longer periods of dominance by other groups, and you also conveniently write off America's ongoing relative decline in the world, much of it happening in comparison to more wholly non-white societies, as being to blame on America letting too many nonwhites in.

So your position makes no sense, has never made sense, and has never been supported other than by extremely arbitrary and selective examination of any possible evidence.

 

[Benvolio]

I have never said that innovation is a function of race. I have said time and again, it is not race, but culture. It came up here because the assertion was made that whites have had an advantage in America. I responded that the reason was that they have been the ones who invented, started companies etc. But I said it is a function of culture. Everyone has a culture, including white Americans. Color is a marker for that culture.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I have never said that innovation is a function of race. I have said time and again, it is not race, but culture. It came up here because the assertion was made that whites have had an advantage in America. I responded that the reason was that they have been the ones who invented, started companies etc. But I said it is a function of culture. Everyone has a culture, including white Americans. Color is a marker for that culture.

Oh is it? So Americans are all white?

 

[Benvolio]

What you overlook, is that any advantage white males have enjoyed arose from the fact that they invented the invention, they started the industries, they started the companies, created the jobs, and for the most part still do. Hispanics could have invented the electric light but they did not, Africans could have developed the automobile, but they did not, Indians could have developed the computer, etc. Having built the companies is it any surprise that they occupy the leadership, executive and managerial positions? No, it is not race, it is culture.

As you see, I specifically said it is culture,not race.

 

[xbuzzerx]

As you see, I specifically said it is culture,not race.

You've repeatedly made the argument that it's "culture" when many of us have pointed out, in fairly great detail, how European culture never gave it any kind of exclusive claim over innovation or technology, and how the events of historical happenstance set the stage for Europe to take the lead fairly recently in world history, primarily based off a confluence of knowledge and inventions that originated elsewhere.

There is absolutely no relevant point being made whatsoever in saying "look at who invented the lightbulb" if it's in the context of "but please disregard who invented gunpowder."

Also, Benvolio, the substitution of "culture" for "race" has been happening in racist discourse since the discreditation of formal biological racism after the end of WWII and the post-colonial era. You aren't onto any great new idea here. The slipping in of 'their CULTURE makes them predisposed to servitude, poverty or lower accomplishments" instead of "their race" has been going on since the 40's, while precisely the same arguments are made that go back to at least 1492. I don't know why you keep reiterating that you're talking about culture as if you're on some new enlightened discourse and not the tired old veiled race discourse that's been around for centuries.

 

[CowboyBob]

As you see, I specifically said it is culture,not race.

Stop trying to talk your way out of this.

Everyone here sees you for what you are and it's not pleasant. You're always ragging on about the superiority of the white race and american exceptionalism. You're living proof the white race is definitely not superior.

Go to stormfront and discuss your views with the likeminded.

This thread has run it's course. It's now become a blog for Benvolio's racist rants.

 

[Rolyo85]

So it's not about race, it's about culture, but... this culture is defined by its non-whiteness... So how is it not about race again?

 

[Rolyo85]

Btw, one thing Giancarlo's particular culture has done, was to be a major factor in the creation of the USA

 

[FuryOfFirestorm]

I'm just waiting for the inevitable Holocaust denial thread from dear old Benny.

 

[Rolyo85]

What Holocaust? White blond people never did no wrong!

 

[xbuzzerx]

What Holocaust? White blond people never did no wrong!

Um, white culture. We're totally not talking about race here. Catch up.

 

[Rolyo85]

White blond culture, sorry...

 

[Benvolio]

The danger is that by refusing to see how important culture is to prosperity and progress, you will impair the aspects of the culture which lead to innovation and creation. Some cultures are more able to innovate than others, and that is the an important part of the explanation of why some countries and cultures are more prosperous than others. Economies which rely upon manufacturing products copied from those who innovated them will never be first world economies.

 

[Rolyo85]

The danger is that by refusing to see how important culture is to prosperity and progress, you will impair the aspects of the culture which lead to innovation and creation. Some cultures are more able to innovate than others, and that is the an important part of the explanation of why some countries and cultures are more prosperous than others. Economies which rely upon manufacturing products copied from those who innovated them will never be first world economies.

By that description, America will never be a first world economy o.o

 

[xbuzzerx]

The danger is that by refusing to see how important culture is to prosperity and progress, you will impair the aspects of the culture which lead to innovation and creation. Some cultures are more able to innovate than others, and that is the an important part of the explanation of why some countries and cultures are more prosperous than others. Economies which rely upon manufacturing products copied from those who innovated them will never be first world economies.

Benvolio take an American entrepreneur who has a profitable business today and speaks only English.

Now picture the identical guy bilingual in both English and Spanish.

Please explain how the filthy tendrils of nonwhite culture have now subverted his ability to innovate or create opportunity.

 

[bankside]

I knew there was a question back there I'd missed while travelling…

How does a business generate profit, if its employees receive a value that is equal to their contribution?

The employee receives a value that is equal to his contribution, at the time he makes it. The employer's profit comes from finding a buyer for that good or service who is willing to pay more than the employer did. That is the employer's contribution, and where the employer creates value. The final price to the consumer covers the full value of the employee's contribution, and the full value of the employer's capital investment in providing tools and a workplace for the employee, and the full value of the employer's network and skill at finding customers. Thus, each party is paid only for what they put in.

Consider if the employee were to swipe $10 from the till: he would be charged with theft because he did nothing to earn that money. On the other hand, he earned every nickel of his paycheque (was about to say "every penny" but we've just eliminated those).

He earned every nickel of his paycheque by parting with something of exactly equal value: his own time and skill. It is up to the employer to resell that time and skill at a profit.

This is all by way of demolishing the myth that an employee should owe some kind of craven gratitude to an employer. It is sickening to see some twisted versions of capitalism presented in this thread that would treat employees like they should be grateful serfs on their master's estate. They earned their paycheques in full, and owe no special gratitude to the writer of the cheque.

 

[Rolyo85]

Benvolio take an American entrepreneur who has a profitable business today and speaks only English.

Now picture the identical guy bilingual in both English and Spanish.

Please explain how the filthy tendrils of nonwhite culture have now subverted his ability to innovate or create opportunity.

He's not gonna produce beautiful blond white children for one...

 

[Benvolio]

Benvolio take an American entrepreneur who has a profitable business today and speaks only English.

Now picture the identical guy bilingual in both English and Spanish.

Please explain how the filthy tendrils of nonwhite culture have now subverted his ability to innovate or create opportunity.

In your example, it would not.

 

[xbuzzerx]

In your example, it would not.

And my example is the reality of what immigrant blending has always created throughout all of American history, as Kulindahr has pointed out to you. America has always received immigrants, and has always received immigrants who didn't speak English or espoused different creeds or religions than the mainstream, and America has had periods in the past where a higher percentage of the overall population was foreign-born than today, and yet has failed to ever be subsumed into some "inferior" foreign culture.

Your entire position here is a constant going-forward fearmongering scenario that has never materialized in reality, ever, despite the U.S. having always had immigration and having always had non-white cultures and individuals present in its society, and other languages spoken, and other cultural habits observed. Always.

Your position is a joke. People 20, 30 years ago were saying exactly the same thing you are saying now, only they were saying we'd be ruined and a third world country by 2000, or by 2010. And people said it 50 years ago, and 100 years ago, and people said it about black people getting the right to vote, and people said it about allowing Japanese or Chinese into the country.

The argument is a joke, and you are a joke for espousing it.

 

[Benvolio]

Since your thinking is dominated by ad hominem attacks, you cannot be expected to understand, but I will try once again.
There are some big, big differences. We now have large scale unemployment and underemployment. We have foreign competition on most levels to an extent far exceeding what it was even a decade ago. People in India, for instance can and are hired for American jobs. We have lost much of the heavy industry which higher large numbers of the immigrants, we will lose more in the future, as companies like GM struggle.
In those olden days which you remember so fondly, the goal was assimilation, and a quota system strongly favored immigrants who would predictably assimilate. E Pluribus Unum. That system was changed in 1965, and again 1990 immigration now comes largely from third world countries with no culture of democracy, individual reliance and economic freedom. The rules of the forum do not allow me more specific in this forum.
Why is it that some countries are more affluent than others? Why do immigrants want to come here by the millions. Why have their own countries failed to provide the opportunities they think they will find here--and did find at one time. Being liberals, you detest the thought that America has anything better than other countries.
We now have more than half the country paying no Federal income taxes. Almost half receiving some form of welfare. Worse, they vote for higher taxes on others to pay for more welfare for themselves. In those olden days for which you yearn, immigrants did not come here expecting welfare and wanting socialism.
More importantly, as a result, our government has changed from one which allows economic freedom to one which wants to regulate more and more of the details of business; a government which is hostile to entrepreneurship, innovation and individual initiative. Clearly in the area of business, the government is more authoritarian, and it can only stifle innovation.