Native American PWNS immigration protest

[rareboy]

Oh for Fuck's Sake.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Oh for Fuck's Sake.

I'm with you at this point.

Not only are we dealing with Euro Exceptionalism and American Exceptionalism but we're also apparently dealing with Now Exceptionalism. America's never had economic problems before! Or unemployment, or recessions, or anything else.

Oh yeah-- and the government is stifling innovation. The government forced oil industries to murder the electric car and choke biodiesel and alternative energy systems while choking out huge profits from an unsustainable energy source.

 

[bankside]

There is no such thing as an "American Job." There is just work to be done in an international free market.

And immigration to the US is nothing magical; Canada, Australia, Europe, all prime destinations for immigrants.

For those parties to this thread willing to remove their heads from Uncle Sam's arse for just a moment, you'd then realise that we're all important trading partners with shared interest in prosperity.
We all need open, rules-based trade.
We would be right to insist on equal environmental responsibility both as import consumers and as exporters in search of an even playing field. If china wants to rape the environment to make cheap goods, I have no problem setting up import tariffs equal to the cost of the environmental destruction. Or for example if consumers had to pay a carbon tax, they would change their buying habits to purchases from developed countries with better environmental records, and developing countries would finally have an incentive to clean up their act.

But this is all about the existing mechanisms of international trade and existing processes for fixing them. We need to use them and commit to them. This isolationist alternative and sticking your head in the sand is just the fast lane to mediocrity and irrelevance for any developed country that tries it. It's the worst of failed 1970's third-world "substitution economics."

Trade is here to stay. So instead of whining about "American Jobs," recognise that global prosperity depends on the advantages of trade, and that local prosperity depends on global prosperity.

 

[Rolyo85]

But you ignore the fact that there are now brown people in America who aren't white! And they have jobs! And not just shoe polishing either! SOME OF THEM ARE WELL PAID!

America is doomed...

 

[xbuzzerx]

But you ignore the fact that there are now brown people in America who aren't white! And they have jobs! And not just shoe polishing either! SOME OF THEM ARE WELL PAID!

America is doomed...

What gets me is that the one demographic that probably competes on relatively equal ground for desired jobs and income brackets are probably Asian Americans, and my guess? Benvolio doesn't feel they're going to undermine and subvert America. Despite coming from an even more foreign culture than any European-extracted ex-colonial culture on our border, and who came here speaking a far more foreign language, with little to no Christian influence in their cultures.

 

[Rolyo85]

Well, you fail to understand that they aren't brown.

 

[rareboy]

Exactly.

While they were good enough to build the railways in the US and then to throw into internment camps during WWII and recently, to own Quicky Marts...to the Benvolios of the world, they are essentially invisible...because they aren't brown and don't speak Spanish.

But everything that Benvolio is whining and wailing about has all been said before about every immigrant group that came to America, including, as I have pointed out to him again and again...the Germans, the Alsations, the Ukranians, the Italians, the Irish and any other group of people who came to America.

But if everyone hasn't come to the realization that you are talking to someone with the same capacity to understand as David Duke...you are wasting your time here.

Benvolio only goes away after every salve and reads up again on why the brown menace will destroy white America and then comes back to repeat the very same points he made on the first page.

Everyone in this thread has been standing still for about 6 pages.

 

[Kulindahr]

I have never said that innovation is a function of race. I have said time and again, it is not race, but culture. It came up here because the assertion was made that whites have had an advantage in America. I responded that the reason was that they have been the ones who invented, started companies etc. But I said it is a function of culture. Everyone has a culture, including white Americans. Color is a marker for that culture.

"Color is a marker for that culture."

The problem is that there is no such thing as "white culture" in the US. I've been to towns where it looked like Norway and people actually spoke Norwegian, and towns where it was the same with Germany and German, Ireland, Sweden....

The real culture of the US that results in innovation and prosperity is the one that welcomes everyone who does anything well, and rewards it. Neither skin color nor language count; results do. That's why the Republican insistence that everyone who isn't white but got an education here has to go "back home", regardless of whether they're set to start a business that will employ a hundred people or more, even regardless of whether they even have another home than America, is not merely foolish and inhumane, but anti-liberty, anti-excellence, and thus anti-American.

 

[Kulindahr]

The danger is that by refusing to see how important culture is to prosperity and progress, you will impair the aspects of the culture which lead to innovation and creation. Some cultures are more able to innovate than others, and that is the an important part of the explanation of why some countries and cultures are more prosperous than others. Economies which rely upon manufacturing products copied from those who innovated them will never be first world economies.

Hypocrisy here. You state a proposition that is undeniably true, but then define culture by race, thus ignoring the reality of the culture you're describing.

The success culture of America has nothing to do with race. It has to do with welcoming new ideas and new ways of doing things. In truth, for a generation after World War II, the culture you regard as "white" thrived better in Japan than in the United States, while a culture of the same arrogance you present shackled America, and even today holds it back from progress. More recently it has thrived better in South Korea.

The culture of success is, to borrow from Ronald Reagan, the culture of excellence, of innovation, of striving to do things better and to find new things to do better.

 

[Kulindahr]

Benvolio take an American entrepreneur who has a profitable business today and speaks only English.

Now picture the identical guy bilingual in both English and Spanish.

Please explain how the filthy tendrils of nonwhite culture have now subverted his ability to innovate or create opportunity.

For that matter, picture businesses started by immigrants from India, Turkey, and Indonesia, who speak English only poorly, but have built businesses here which are bringing stiff competition to long-standing "white" businesses here. Think of similar owners holding their businesses steady through the economic malaise our "white" banker culture bestowed on us, while "white" businesses struggle and/or fail. That's going on all over the country -- and in each case, it's the immigrant who is more representative of American culture than the others.

 

[Kulindahr]

I knew there was a question back there I'd missed while travelling…

The employee receives a value that is equal to his contribution, at the time he makes it. The employer's profit comes from finding a buyer for that good or service who is willing to pay more than the employer did. That is the employer's contribution, and where the employer creates value. The final price to the consumer covers the full value of the employee's contribution, and the full value of the employer's capital investment in providing tools and a workplace for the employee, and the full value of the employer's network and skill at finding customers. Thus, each party is paid only for what they put in.

Consider if the employee were to swipe $10 from the till: he would be charged with theft because he did nothing to earn that money. On the other hand, he earned every nickel of his paycheque (was about to say "every penny" but we've just eliminated those).

He earned every nickel of his paycheque by parting with something of exactly equal value: his own time and skill. It is up to the employer to resell that time and skill at a profit.

This is all by way of demolishing the myth that an employee should owe some kind of craven gratitude to an employer. It is sickening to see some twisted versions of capitalism presented in this thread that would treat employees like they should be grateful serfs on their master's estate. They earned their paycheques in full, and owe no special gratitude to the writer of the cheque.

What a blissfully pleasant view of the process!

In reality, the employer tends to pay no more than he can get away with, as much less than the actual value of the work the employee does as he can manage.

 

[Kulindahr]

We now have more than half the country paying no Federal income taxes.

How is this a negative?!?

At root, taxation of income is theft. We should be proud that the federal government manages to not steal that way from half the population, and set our sights on raising it to three-fifths.

 

[Kulindahr]

We would be right to insist on equal environmental responsibility both as import consumers and as exporters in search of an even playing field. If china wants to rape the environment to make cheap goods, I have no problem setting up import tariffs equal to the cost of the environmental destruction.

That would merely be keeping the economics honest.