Need help with sexual hangups

[hanshansen]

I want to start with the full half of the glass. Since I first started posting here at the end of 2006, my life has improved beyond measure. I've discovered that I'm a people person, I've made some great friends, I've had some great times. I actually feel comfortable in my own skin, I know that I'm an intelligent and likeable person. For the first time in my life I feel like an adult who is forging his own path in the world.

Unfortunately, I'm still carrying the baggage of deep sexual hangups (I'm almost 30, I had no sexual experiences at all until very recently, I only started talking to anyone about my sexual anxieties in the last 1 1/2 years), and I still don't have a clue what to do about this. In a nutshell, I am very uncomfortable with the physical aspects of sex, particularly gay sex. I have no problems with sex in the broader sense - off-colour jokes, flirting, sparks, intimacy etc. In fact these things make life more enjoyable. I guess I'm worried that if I don't get over my problems with the former I won't get as much as I would like of the latter, and I won't be in a position to have happy relationships.

I've said in the past that I have these hangups, but I was very general about it. What I'll try to do now is break the issue into chunks that someone might be able to help me with. In doing this, I'll make mental reference to the one (gay) sexual experience I did have about 2 months ago. It was a very mixed experience at best, and I know that this is largely because of my issues, the person in question is a really good guy, I had drinks with him only the other night.

I don't know who in really life I would feel free to talk to about this stuff, because it's personal and embarrassing and in parts too non-PC.

There’s two aspects to this which I guess you could attribute to ‘internalised homophobia’:

a) If I'm honest and very blunt, the mechanics of gay sex for me boil down to cocksucking and sodomy, with all the negative connotations that those words have. (You can refer to 'oral sex' and 'anal sex' all you want to, but it's still the same thing.) It would put a dent in my self-esteem to be aware that I was engaging in those activities. It's not just that, it's that they seem like second-best workarounds to the fact that guys did not evolve to engage sexually with each other. (That's another way of saying that deep down I think gay sex is unnatural.)

b) When I was younger, I had the usual type of experience: seeing attractive guys on the beach, in the changing room at school, and trying very hard not to go red and let it show. It was very awkward. Somehow, over time, I learned to get over this and now I am just not in the habit of thinking about guys’ bodies in a sexual way. In fact, I would be weirded out by the idea of doing so. It’s not that I’m not conscious of being attracted to particular guys, but that relates to things like personality and body language, how nice they are to me, whether they have the potential to return my interest. I don’t picture them naked and don’t really have the desire to – I might as well look at myself in the bathroom mirror.

Then there’s a couple more things which I guess are a matter of inexperience, they caused me a lot of anxiety two months ago:

c) How should I think about personal hygiene in the context of all of this? How do I know that someone is reasonably clean, particularly ‘down there’?

d) I guess I was afraid I might catch something. We had sex ed classes at school but somehow I managed to bail out of those. What do I have to do – buy some condoms and practice putting them on? I don’t even know who sells those.

e) With the guy I was with, there was a point where, I don’t know, he became a lot more intense and it was like I was dealing with this cocktail of hormones rather than the person I had been dealing with up till then. It was a totally unfamiliar experience and to be honest it freaked me out.

It’s like in my mind, there is this point in sexual relations where things stop being about human beings with feelings and start being about ... bodies, and techniques for getting off, and the risk of disease, and uncontrollable physical urges. That’s what it looks like to me, and it’s a huge turn-off.

The progress I’ve made to date (in other areas) has come from making myself try new things with a more positive mindset, and getting positive surprises. I guess I don’t know what in this case I need to make myself do, and I don’t know how to change my mindset so that it doesn't sabotage anything I do try.

 

[EvilForce]

Wow! Stop thinking, start fucking. Seriously. You are living inside your head, not in the real world. Time to let all that mental baggage go. A person can over-analyse anything to death, and take the uniqueness, fun-ness, and enjoyability out of anything.

 

[welshboy]

I wouldn't worry about "anal sex" too much. Put that on hold. There's plenty of other stuff you can do in the meantime. Start out with just kissing and then work your way up. Just do whatever your comfortable with. Explain that you just wanna take things slowly.

Absolutely, you know, sometimes we can think too much. Be happy with yourself first, and move along at your own pace. You don't have to jump right in. Anyone who cares for you will understand.

 

[KaraBulut]

There's a reason why people crawl, then stand, then walk then run.

Somehow you went from being asexual to having full-on sex.

There were a couple of things you missed out on along the way. Like affection. Like holding hands. Like kissing. Like sitting on the couch together watching a movie.

Sex isn't supposed to be just something you do. It's supposed to be part of a progression, exploration and expression. And part of getting to know another person.

Go back. Start over. Do it again.

 

[G-Lexington]

a) If I'm honest and very blunt, the mechanics of gay sex for me boil down to cocksucking and sodomy, with all the negative connotations that those words have. (You can refer to 'oral sex' and 'anal sex' all you want to, but it's still the same thing.) It would put a dent in my self-esteem to be aware that I was engaging in those activities. It's not just that, it's that they seem like second-best workarounds to the fact that guys did not evolve to engage sexually with each other. (That's another way of saying that deep down I think gay sex is unnatural.)

That's a mindset that you should try to get around. Yes, the basic design was for the penis to go into the vagina so as to carry on the species. But guess what? Cocksucking and sodomy aren't confined to homos. Straight people do it, too. And you know why? Because it's fun.

And you can break it down even further. What about kissing? Is that natural? It doesn't seem to have much to do with vaginal intercourse, other than "it may lead to it if both body parts are present". Does that make it unnatural? Wrong? Extra-curricular?

Take a look at the world. We've got plenty of humans. We don't really need any more. One theory is that homosexuality is nature's way of applying the brakes a bit. To keep the race from overpopulating itself and starving itself out of its habitat. If that's true, then homosexuality is very natural.

A different mindset is probably in order. I don't look at myself as a source of sperm for a woman. I see myself as a sexual creature. I enjoy touching myself, and bringing myself to orgasm. And when there's another guy in my bed, I view HIM as something else I can touch, and bring to orgasm. Because I know how great that feels, and how much fun it is. And so anything we want to do, as long as we both enjoy it, is on the table.

Imagine someone gave you a coloring book page, and a box of crayons. It sounds like, in your mind, there's one "correct" way to do it. You color the grass green, the sky blue, and the roses red - staying within the lines, turning the crayons as you color, so they stay pointy. Yeah, that way is fine. That was the original intent of the crayons and coloring book. But guess what? We're not getting graded on this. You can use the crayons and coloring book page anyway you want. Color the sky purple. Draw yellow Xs all over the flowers. Write a risque poem in brown across the whole page. Use the back side of the crayons.

These things are there for your enjoyment. Do with them as you see fit.

b) When I was younger, I had the usual type of experience: seeing attractive guys on the beach, in the changing room at school, and trying very hard not to go red and let it show. It was very awkward. Somehow, over time, I learned to get over this and now I am just not in the habit of thinking about guys’ bodies in a sexual way. In fact, I would be weirded out by the idea of doing so. It’s not that I’m not conscious of being attracted to particular guys, but that relates to things like personality and body language, how nice they are to me, whether they have the potential to return my interest. I don’t picture them naked and don’t really have the desire to – I might as well look at myself in the bathroom mirror.

I have something vaguely similar, but I can turn it off and on. I don't see anyone in a sexual manner unless I want to. My default is no - he's just a person. But if I want to, I can look at a guy, imagine him in a sexual situation, and then my mind opens up.

Try it. Yes, it'll seem weird - everything seems weird the first time you do it. If you feel self-conscious about it, try it with some guys on TV or in a magazine first. Imagine them in your bedroom, taking their clothes off (or taking YOUR clothes off). See how that goes.

c) How should I think about personal hygiene in the context of all of this? How do I know that someone is reasonably clean, particularly ‘down there’?

Most guys are fairly good about doing things like showering daily. They're especially good about it on days when they know a trip to the bedroom is in the cards. But if it's something that does keep kicking at your brain, there's an easy solution - ask your guy if you can start off by taking a shower together. Don't put it in context of HIM - "I don't know if you're clean or not" - but in context of YOU. "I'd like to scrub down before we get started, and I'd like to have you there for it."

d) I guess I was afraid I might catch something. We had sex ed classes at school but somehow I managed to bail out of those. What do I have to do – buy some condoms and practice putting them on? I don’t even know who sells those.

Knowledge is power. So go get the knowledge.

Yes, buy some condoms and practice putting them on. You don't want to get to that point, and then take five minutes to figure out which side is which. Also, get some water-based lubricant, and try putting that on the condom. Inside, outside, here, there, wherever. Masturbate with the condom on so you get used to the sensation, and so you know where to put the lube so you enjoy it the most.

Who sells condoms? EVERYBODY. Every drug store, every grocery store, every department store (Target, Walmart), every convenience store. Most stores (except maybe the convenience stores) have lubricant right next to them. Start buying, and start practicing.

Also, do some research online. About STDs, how they're transmitted, what's safe and what isn't, and what you can do to keep the risks down. Then you won't have these worries bouncing around your head while you're trying to get it on.

e) With the guy I was with, there was a point where, I don’t know, he became a lot more intense and it was like I was dealing with this cocktail of hormones rather than the person I had been dealing with up till then. It was a totally unfamiliar experience and to be honest it freaked me out.

You do masturbate, right? (If not, start.) When you do so, you probably hit a point on the way to orgasm where you get fairly immersed in it. Your outside thoughts sort of fade away, you notice things (like dogs barking outside) less and less, and you lose yourself in the act. That's sex. That's you becoming a fully sexual being. It's no different from you sleeping or you concentrating fully on some huge problem. It's one aspect of your person coming fully to the front. And, in fact, it kicks ass. It's why we like sex so much. Sex isn't something that's done in an offhanded, distracted manner. It's something we completely and fully become.

When the guy in my bed reaches that point, it doesn't weird me out. It makes me hellaciously excited. It means I've gotten him horny enough that he's losing himself in the act. Watching him slip into that zone usually is enough to get me there, as well.

Lex

 

[hanshansen]

Thanks for those helpful comments.

Wow! Stop thinking, start fucking.

It is sometimes very hard to get those thoughts to die. Trying to itemise them and getting other people to shoot them down for me has worked for me in the past.

But guess what? Cocksucking and sodomy aren't confined to homos. Straight people do it, too. And you know why? Because it's fun.

Thinking about it that way does help.

Voices: This is kinky and depraved.
Me: Yes, but X had that book on how to fu*k a woman up the a*s on his shelf, and he has no self-esteem issues.

There’s another issue here, though. I actually think the idea of performing oral sex (there, I used it this time: double standard) on a woman is rather hot. What’s the difference? One is: I know my own penis, and I don’t fancy the idea of performing oral sex on it. It’s a point of view issue – that looking at yourself in the bathroom mirror thing.

This may sound stupid, but it matters. Lots of people will happily eat black pudding if they can block out what goes into it, but be grossed out if you remind them.

b) When I was younger, I had the usual type of experience: seeing attractive guys on the beach, in the changing room at school, and trying very hard not to go red and let it show. It was very awkward. Somehow, over time, I learned to get over this and now I am just not in the habit of thinking about guys’ bodies in a sexual way.

I have something vaguely similar, but I can turn it off and on.

Finally, someone gets what I’m talking about here. This is something I’ve tried to explain to a couple of people and I’ve got pretty blank responses.

It is very reassuring to know that you can learn to turn it on and off. One of my concerns has been that if I opened up to this more the genie would come back out of the bottle and those awkward experiences I had when I was young would return.

In fact, I should know that you can turn it on and off. Those turn-ons for me that I mentioned – such as eye contact, body language – only work for me ‘in that way’ with potentially available gay guys.

Knowledge is power. So go get the knowledge.

Yeah. I procrastinate.

e) With the guy I was with, there was a point where, I don’t know, he became a lot more intense and it was like I was dealing with this cocktail of hormones rather than the person I had been dealing with up till then. It was a totally unfamiliar experience and to be honest it freaked me out.

You do masturbate, right?

Yes, I’m not that weird .

The thing is, for me that has always been a very private activity, a bodily function type thing. Like going to the bathroom. It would seriously weird me out to see anyone I knew using the bathroom.

There’s this person who you’ve had wines with and there he is naked and totally losing self-control.

All the boundaries of civilisation are suddenly no longer there and if you’re not used to that it is scary stuff.

That’s also why, if people say to me, ‘you need to have lots of sex’, my first response is, ‘how?’ I know how to have coffee with someone, I know how to talk to them, I know how to show them I like them. But I don’t know how to go over that threshold with them, I have no instincts for when it’s appropriate to do so, it so falls outside the bounds of normal interaction for me.

I guess the answer to all that is:

There's a reason why people crawl, then stand, then walk then run.

Somehow you went from being asexual to having full-on sex.

There were a couple of things you missed out on along the way. Like affection. Like holding hands. Like kissing. Like sitting on the couch together watching a movie.

Sex isn't supposed to be just something you do. It's supposed to be part of a progression, exploration and expression. And part of getting to know another person.

Go back. Start over. Do it again.

In other words, more patience and taking it slow.

 

[Blueboy369]

Everyone has hangups. Your worried about yours and the guy you'll be with is worried about his. Nobody is perfect. I heard someone say that the best sex is when you are both trying to "get off". Look, life is short. God forbid something happens and you would have never allowed yourself the experience of having sex. Stop worrying and start living! You deserve pleasure.

 

[rareboy]

I think you need some real counselling as well. Oral and anal sex is what you are doing. Sodomy is a pejorative term and you think that homo sex is unnatural and second best.

I don't think the str8's who love cocksucking and cunnilingus and titty fucking and assplay think of these activities as work arounds...they are just different forms of sexual play.

You do have a definite tendency to overthink things and to be rather bottled up about anything pleasurable about gay sex. Just referring to your cock and balls and asshole as 'down there', tells me that you have a big hang-up about the nature of sex period. You are still regarding your genitalia and rectum as excretionary devices instead of a playground.

You seem to think of it more like a puritanical duty than the no hold absolute lust fest that it can be.

Just relax. Accept you're gay. Accept that it is lots of fun and that you need to learn to give and receive pleasure as well as going through the mechanical motions of sex.

 

[EvilForce]

Being a control freak is bad enough. Being a control freak in bed, is a deal breaker.

 

[hanshansen]

Oral and anal sex is what you are doing. Sodomy is a pejorative term

OK. Yes, fair enough.

You are still regarding your genitalia and rectum as excretionary devices instead of a playground.

Well, they're both ...

I think you need some real counselling as well.

Would this be something that I could talk about with the counsellor I've gone to in the past? Or do you have to go to some kind of sex therapist?

What would I gain from that which I'm not doing here - i.e. trying to unpick what it is that bothers me, thinking where that comes from, and having someone else suggest different ways of looking at things? These counselling sessions aren't that cheap.

Look, I know I take a basically puritanical attitude to these things. If I think about where that comes from, I guess I largely inherited it from my parents. My mother is incredibly squeamish about sex. When I had the coming out talk with my father, he said to me, 'sexuality is overrated'. From the context in which he said it, I know that 80 per cent of what he meant was, 'sex is overrated'. I never observed my parents as sexual beings.

In thinking about how I got from the basket case I was 1 1/2 years ago to the semi basket case I am today, the hardest part, the resistance, always involved figuring out what I could do without compromising my core values (and reassessing what those are). Once I discovered there was no fundamental conflict between those values and an action, doing it became very easy, and a lot of times it turned out to be fun.

I know that society takes a more relaxed attitude to sex than I do. To be honest, I'm not convinced that society is right. At the moment, the conflict I recognise is between my and other people's views. The reason I would relax more is in order to please a person I care about. There is no intrinsic motivation. If I could find someone who didn't give sex a high priority in their lives I would do that.

I will accept that I really don't know (in terms of what I would and would not enjoy) what I'm talking about. I don't know what the payoff would be to looking at things differently. I had one experience which I didn't enjoy that much and I'm afraid that going further would make me feel like a bad person. That's all.

 

[EvilForce]

*sigh*

You just don't get it. You cannot logically think about sex. Sex is illogical. It's funny. It's embarrassing. It's mind blowing. It's emotional. It's carnal. It's racy. It's dirty. It's pleasurable. It's satisfying. It's messy. Sometimes all of the above, sometimes a few of them, sometimes none of the above. Sex is different with each person, and even each time you do it.

Sometimes sex is just sex. Sometimes it's an emotional bonding experience for two people (or more). Sometimes it's only "ok". Sometimes it rocks!

Trying to "think" it thru really serves no purpose IMHO. It's like trying to tell a blind person what a sunset looks like.

 

[hanshansen]

You just don't get it.

No, I guess not. Maybe at some stage I will.

 

[G-Lexington]

My friend's mother had absolutely the worst sense of humor in the world. If you told her a joke, she'd say something like, "Oh, I see. While I was searching for a rationale as to why the chicken needed to cross the road, in actuality, the answer was simply what results from crossing a road." She wasn't being sarcastic - that's just how she reacted to humor. She literally WOULD dissect a joke down to atoms

And she'd never laugh.

Lex

 

[hanshansen]

You are very good at this.

Cheers

 

[rareboy]

What would I gain from that which I'm not doing here - i.e. trying to unpick what it is that bothers me, thinking where that comes from, and having someone else suggest different ways of looking at things? These counselling sessions aren't that cheap.

You'd get professional qualified help to work through this issues. Your problems aren't just about where to put your dick, they are about your whole self image and ability to function and be happy.
It is highly unlikely that from a smattering of one dimensional posts on a bulletin board that you will achieve the same result.

 

[elvnguardian]

*sigh*

You just don't get it. You cannot logically think about sex. Sex is illogical. It's funny. It's embarrassing. It's mind blowing. It's emotional. It's carnal. It's racy. It's dirty. It's pleasurable. It's satisfying. It's messy. Sometimes all of the above, sometimes a few of them, sometimes none of the above. Sex is different with each person, and even each time you do it.

Sometimes sex is just sex. Sometimes it's an emotional bonding experience for two people (or more). Sometimes it's only "ok". Sometimes it rocks!

Trying to "think" it thru really serves no purpose IMHO. It's like trying to tell a blind person what a sunset looks like.

I don't post nearly as much as I used to, and the few people who do remember me will probably be suprised that I agree with Evil.

I'll admit, when I read his first post, I was a bit put off, but as I'm reading through all of the postings, it all started to get a little too wordy and overly Logical, on one of the few things in this world logic should never EVER be applied to. If it were meant to be handled rationally, it would not have the intoxicating effect on us that it does, that's why it's fun.

It's like asking a skydiver what purpose it serves to jump out of a plane at 4000 feet (or whatever)... You're not going to get a RATIONAL explaination (and if you do, I'll cry), you'll get a LECTURE about rushes and emotions and a number of words that probably don't exist in a Dictionary.

And Sex is also one of those things that, if you don't like something about it/doing a certain something during it, you don't HAVE to do it (although I would highly recomend trying it atleast once, tell you're brain to take a vacation).

And be honest with your partner(s)... chances are, if the guy got things going with you, he's probably atleast a little more experienced than you are. You don't have to scream you're practically a Virgin from the roof tops, but telling him you're a little uncomfortable and need to take it a little slower will probably help you and him to understand, and also let him know that you aren't disintrested in him (because right now, if you guys had a thing and you haven't in a couple weeks, but still see each other, he probably does).


WISDOM BESTOWED

That'll be 25 cents please.... Lucy's a hack, that's why she get's away with a nickel.

 

[G-Lexington]

^^ My posts have both height AND width, and that makes them TWO-dimensional, thank you VERY much, rareboy.

Lex

 

[hanshansen]

You're not going to get a RATIONAL explaination (and if you do, I'll cry), you'll get a LECTURE about rushes and emotions and a number of words that probably don't exist in a Dictionary.

Those lectures are pretty much useless, they do not help ... the humour analogy helps, humour is one part of life where I understand the point of things like illogic and transgression and ambiguity and fun.

And be honest with your partner(s)... chances are, if the guy got things going with you, he's probably atleast a little more experienced than you are. You don't have to scream you're practically a Virgin from the roof tops, but telling him you're a little uncomfortable and need to take it a little slower will probably help you and him to understand, and also let him know that you aren't disintrested in him (because right now, if you guys had a thing and you haven't in a couple weeks, but still see each other, he probably does).

I can do that.

 

[rareboy]

^^ forgive me. I was, in fact, referring to the OP's own posts, which give us a fairly one dimensional view of his life.

A therapist has the advantage of seeing the person and gauging other behaviours and to take a conversation in other directions in order to illuminate the issue.

Lex, your posts have length, width and depth, so they are very 3 dimensional........

 

[By-Ear]

I have just read all the posts of this thread, and I totally agree with Lex.

Lex, I salute you!