New Pope Breaks With Basic Foundation of Christianity ... You Don't Have to Believe To Go To Heaven

[medic1]

^^

If you have no interests, no belief structure ... again why would you post in a thread you don't care about.

Insight is a matter of option.

You are quite correct , but for one Major point . He was Bang on topic . , He mentions beliefs and i know that he is a man of great spiritual beliefs .

Insight , to be able to function , implys that you have it .
So please next time , instead of the snarky shit-stirring , why don`t you POST something insightful .

Think you meant to post *insight is a matter of opinion.................

 

[medic1]

I have heard this asked quite a lot of atheists. Why are atheists so active in religious discussions if they do not believe in the tenants of the religion? Neil DeGrasse Tyson is often labeled an atheist but adamantly rejects that label because he feels much the same way. He once compared it to golfing, stating that he does not golf at all, so why would he want to spend any time discussing it? Well, if golfers were constantly directing their golf balls into your car windshield, you then might have something to say on the matter. The same is true for religious discussions - religion is a MAJOR part of our society and effects EVERYONE, not just those who believe. Many of those effects have been severely detrimental. In the case of this particular thread, the pope's comments are down-right insulting to non-believers. I can (and am) a good person without belief in god. My sense of right and wrong is not dependent upon any ideas of a supreme being or higher power instilling those attributes upon me - the same can be said for most believers as well, they just don't admit to it. For the pope to imply that, even though I am not a believer, because I am a good person I am following his god is an offensive attempt to inject his god and credit him for the morality and decency that I have. It was not his god that grew up in a universe that must be shared with other human beings, it was ME! I wish to live the best life possible for as long as possible because I understand that I will not be getting a second life when I die, so, in order for me to live the best life possible, I must understand that I share this reality with others, and I must recognize that my actions have consequences, and, as such, I will avoid, whenever possible, those actions which have negative consequences on myself and others. I have come to an understanding about the nature of the reality that I live in, I have achieved this understanding - it was not instilled upon me by some higher power. Religion and religious tenants are not paths to morality. There is no system in religion for determining what is moral and what isn't. Religion does not allow us to understand morality, religion simply makes moral pronouncements. There is no method, or reason behind it.

Having no beliefs does not mean you don't care about religious beliefs, or do not want to actively participate in discussions about religion. In fact, as you can clearly see, the exact opposite tends to be true.

How about this moral===Let he who is without sin cast the first stone ..........Get my drift ?

 

[Benvolio]

Francis seems to be so focused on socialism that he has very little use for religion. I think he is the first salvo in the struggle between the church in developing countries, emphasing charity for themselves versus the Church in developed countries, emphasizing traditional beliefs. "Is the Pope a Catholic?" Is no longer a joke. Note, that none of these statements purport to be ex cathedral, invoking infallibility, so they are reversible.

 

[kallipolis]

Francis seems to be so focused on socialism that he has very little use for religion. I think he is the first salvo in the struggle between the church in developing countries, emphasing charity for themselves versus the Church in developed countries, emphasizing traditional beliefs. "Is the Pope a Catholic?" Is no longer a joke. Note, that none of these statements purport to be ex cathedral, invoking infallibility, so they are reversible.

Seems to be...whereas, in fact Pope Francis is spreading the good news that God loves all his human children, no exceptions...for all human life is imperfect.

The Seven Corporal Works of Mercy.

To feed the hungry: "For I was hungry and you gave me to eat." Mt. 25:35
To give drink to the thirsty: "...I was thirsty and you gave me to drink..." Mt. 25:35
To clothe the naked: "I was...naked and you clothed me..." Mt. 25:36
To visit the imprisoned: "I was in prison and you came to me." Mt. 25:36
To shelter the homeless: "...I was a stranger and you took me in..." Mt. 25:35
To visit the sick: "...I was sick and you cared for me..." Mt. 25:36
To bury the dead: "Amen, I say to you, insofar as you did it for one of these least of my brothers, you did it for me." Mt. 25:40

 

[Benvolio]

The population of the world is expanding too rapidly for poverty to be cured by charity. The Pope does not see the hypocrisy of his preaching charity for the poor even as he prohibits the use of contraception by desperately poor families and countries.

 

[bankside]

Seems to be...whereas, in fact Pope Francis is spreading the good news that God loves all his human children, no exceptions...for all human life is imperfect.

I think perfection is the right word for all the great lineages of creatures that have crawled out of the primordial swamp and tried to live and to thrive. What does this good news matter?

 

[FirmaFan]

Seems to be...whereas, in fact Pope Francis is spreading the good news that God loves all his human children, no exceptions...for all human life is imperfect.

Ah, the self-loathing that seems inherent in the majority of religious teachings once again rears its ugly head.

 

[medic1]

Ah, the self-loathing that seems inherent in the majority of religious teachings once again rears its ugly head.

Ah , the self-loathing Troll , that seems inherent in the majority of spiritual teachings . Is indeed rearing its ugly head .

 

[Love me 2]

Human Life was perfect before the Fall, and since then, it has always been imperfect. There is nothing self-loathing about it.

 

[bankside]

Human Life was perfect before the Fall, and since then, it has always been imperfect. There is nothing self-loathing about it.

The hypothesis of there having been a "fall" is an ugly bit of theology that the Pope would do well to break with. First, it doesn't seem to fit with the development of any sentient species over millions of years. Second, the myths about it seem indicative of a very poor moral standard in heaven (or at least the church), which humans ought not to follow. Even children, born innocent, understand that they are born that way, and quite rightly object to harsh treatment on the account of someone else's wrongdoing.

 

[bort138]

Original sin has to be one of the most immoral concepts ever conceived. The idea that anyone, especially children, are somehow flawed due to something that their ancestors did in the past is absolutely absurd and to teach children that they need to be redeemed or forgiven for being related to them is disgraceful.

 

[Mariatenebre]

Human Life was perfect before the Fall, and since then, it has always been imperfect. There is nothing self-loathing about it.

It is self loathing and it is an evil concept. It is the idea that there is something inherently wrong with us and it is so based on the sins of our ancestors or inherited guilt. It is very evil.

 

[FirmaFan]

Human Life was perfect before the Fall, and since then, it has always been imperfect. There is nothing self-loathing about it.

I hold no illusions of perfection. But the idea that our imperfections are anything other than what make us extraordinarily unique, that our imperfections are something to be apologized for, something to be atoned for, is the definition of self-loathing, and I refuse to allow any religious doctrine to make my existence a crime that I must seek repentance for.

 

[kallipolis]

I hold no illusions of perfection. But the idea that our imperfections are anything other than what make us extraordinarily unique, that our imperfections are something to be apologized for, something to be atoned for, is the definition of self-loathing, and I refuse to allow any religious doctrine to make my existence a crime that I must seek repentance for.

I would hazard a guess that my human imperfections are in need of improvement....for to assume otherwise, is to believe that I am perfect...whereas, with the creator's assistance I can improve myself....a process of self improvement that ends only at my death.

 

[kallipolis]

Original sin has to be one of the most immoral concepts ever conceived. The idea that anyone, especially children, are somehow flawed due to something that their ancestors did in the past is absolutely absurd and to teach children that they need to be redeemed or forgiven for being related to them is disgraceful.

Original Sin simply defines human imperfection....and the absolutely need for self improvement...a highly constructive aspiration for those of us who believe that we need to improve our ways.....whereas, the perfect are entitled to live in their world of make believe.

 

[bort138]

Original Sin simply defines human imperfection....and the absolutely need for self improvement...a highly constructive aspiration for those of us who believe that we need to improve our ways.....whereas, the perfect are entitled to live in their world of make believe.

Self-improvement can be a good thing but it's much more than that. Why do people need salvation for something they had no hand in doing?

 

[kallipolis]

Self-improvement can be a good thing but it's much more than that. Why do people need salvation for something they had no hand in doing?

Original Sin is simply a religious term to describe the human being's propensity to err, to make mistakes, to be self destructive, to be destructive that each of us stands guilty of doing........the idea that we inherit from our first parents our capacity to err simply describes early man's attempts to understand the whys of our capacity to make mistakes, and the need of each of us to work at self improvement to overcome our human frailties a process that ends only at our death...

 

[FirmaFan]

Original Sin is simply a religious term to describe the human being's propensity to err, to make mistakes, to be self destructive, to be destructive that each of us stands guilty of doing........the idea that we inherit from our first parents our capacity to err simply describes early man's attempts to understand the whys of our capacity to make mistakes, and the need of each of us to work at self improvement to overcome our human frailties a process that ends only at our death...

So original sin is not the literal fall from grace committed by Adam and Eve but is simply a metaphor, rendering the sacrifice Jesus made to atone for that sin as merely allegory, thus rendering the central tenant of christianity as nothing more than a fictitious literary device?

 

[medic1]

So original sin is not the literal fall from grace committed by Adam and Eve but is simply a metaphor, rendering the sacrifice Jesus made to atone for that sin as merely allegory, thus rendering the central tenant of christianity as nothing more than a fictitious literary device?

Wow , that thumb must be so up your own arse . Does it hurt ?

May i suggest you read again the post that you are railing against .

 

[FirmaFan]

Wow , that thumb must be so up your own arse . Does it hurt ?

May i suggest you read again the post that you are railing against .

Anything to contribute beyond insults and nonsensical personal attacks?