New Pope Breaks With Basic Foundation of Christianity ... You Don't Have to Believe To Go To Heaven

[medic1]

Anything to contribute beyond insults and nonsensical personal attacks?

NOPE > You are doing just fine by yourself..................

Oh , and i do believe that ridiculing someones personal spiritual beliefs goes against the CoC...

 

[kallipolis]

So original sin is not the literal fall from grace committed by Adam and Eve but is simply a metaphor, rendering the sacrifice Jesus made to atone for that sin as merely allegory, thus rendering the central tenant of christianity as nothing more than a fictitious literary device?

Traditional Christianity does not support Creationist (literalistic) understandings....of the creation story, knowing well that such stories are borrowed from earlier Bablyonian story telling....however, the Genesis story of creation provides the reader with an understanding how early man interpreted its relationship with the creator.

I'm happy to contribute to your new thread on at-one-ment....your turn...

 

[Jack Springer]

I spoke with several Roman Catholics over the weekend along with hearing a local broadcast where the question about the Pope's remark was discussed.

All said the same thing -- the only way to heaven was through Jesus Christ. They also said the Pope's remark was skewed by the media.

 

[kallipolis]

I spoke with several Roman Catholics over the weekend along with hearing a local broadcast where the question about the Pope's remark was discussed.

All said the same thing -- the only way to heaven was through Jesus Christ. They also said the Pope's remark was skewed by the media.

Well noted, Jack I rather believe that God decides who enters Heaven....while appreciating that there are those who believe that they can second guess God's plan for each human being...all 7 billion.

 

[medic1]

As in any Religion , you will have people who follow Dogma to the letter . My beliefs are founded on my own interpretation of the Scriptures .

 

[FirmaFan]

NOPE > You are doing just fine by yourself..................

Oh , and i do believe that ridiculing someones personal spiritual beliefs goes against the CoC...

Actually, no it doesn't violate the CoC. Personal insults go against the CoC, such as the post you made. Drawing criticism to someone's personal beliefs is all to sheltered in society, but why should religion get a free pass when it comes to criticism? Political ideologies are heavily criticized and debated, but I don't think I would be wrong in saying one's religious beliefs shape people's decisions even more so than their political beliefs, making criticism and argument about those beliefs that more important.

If you really believe I violated this boards CoC, feel free to report my post to the mods, and I'll do the same for yours, and we'll let them decide who really is in violation.

 

[medic1]

Actually, no it doesn't violate the CoC. Personal insults go against the CoC, such as the post you made. Drawing criticism to someone's personal beliefs is all to sheltered in society, but why should religion get a free pass when it comes to criticism? Political ideologies are heavily criticized and debated, but I don't think I would be wrong in saying one's religious beliefs shape people's decisions even more so than their political beliefs, making criticism and argument about those beliefs that more important.

If you really believe I violated this boards CoC, feel free to report my post to the mods, and I'll do the same for yours, and we'll let them decide who really is in violation.

Mate , your baiting style is as obvious as a kick in the balls . What Personal insults have i hurled your way ?
I asked you a question about the pain that thumb must be causing you .
As for reporting you to the MODS , they have better things to do with their time .
You are very well known for your "baiting" posts in this particular forum , whats up can`t take it back ? Have a nice day now...

 

[FirmaFan]

So good , i had to say it twice !!!!

So insulting, I had to report it twice!!!

 

[medic1]

So insulting, I had to report it twice!!!

Well good for you . Context is everything . Now do you want to get back on TOPIC ? Have a fab day........

 

[FirmaFan]

Well good for you . Context is everything . Now do you want to get back on TOPIC ? Have a fab day........

I am all for getting back on topic. If you have issue with my arguments, then, by all means, feel free to attack their merits. Quote my posts, show me where you disagree and tell me why - that is how discussion works. But if you are going to simply say that "I have my thumb up my arse", you are contributing nothing to the discussion, and are only demonstrating your immaturity - a demonstration that was significantly compounded when you claimed your post was not an insult, but you were merely asking "a question about the pain that thumb must be causing".

 

[bankside]

Original Sin simply defines human imperfection....and the absolutely need for self improvement...a highly constructive aspiration for those of us who believe that we need to improve our ways.....whereas, the perfect are entitled to live in their world of make believe.

It goes a step further than that however; it claims that humanity was once devoid of imperfection. It goes another step in implying that the commonplace imperfection of humanity would have been avoidable. These are fantastical and nonsensical claims. I don't know why you gloss over these other clear meanings communicated in the text. It would astonish me to think it had escaped your notice. I am left only with speculation as to why you rush past these meanings now, as though they were unsavoury-looking strangers in the dimly-lit doorways lining your course.

Regardless, the passage is not saved from the charges bort makes against it, by pretending it does not say all the things it plainly says.

Understanding this it is clear that the imperfect can either live in the real universe, or they can live in the real universe while hoping for a great make-believe beyond. If we are going to play make-believe, lets at least imagine a place with fairness and justice.

 

[bort138]

NOPE > You are doing just fine by yourself..................

Oh , and i do believe that ridiculing someones personal spiritual beliefs goes against the CoC...

I think you are conflating "questioning" with "ridiculing". Not once in this thread have I seen FirmaFan call anyone names or resort to personal attacks in addressing the beliefs of others. Questioning what others believe is not a personal attack.

 

[medic1]

I think you are conflating "questioning" with "ridiculing". Not once in this thread have I seen FirmaFan call anyone names or resort to personal attacks in addressing the beliefs of others. Questioning what others believe is not a personal attack.

And i think , i know what i am saying ! YOUR FRIEND i believe has a proven record of showing disdain to members in this forum who do hold a Spiritual Belief . Have a nice day .

 

[medic1]

I am all for getting back on topic. If you have issue with my arguments, then, by all means, feel free to attack their merits. Quote my posts, show me where you disagree and tell me why - that is how discussion works. But if you are going to simply say that "I have my thumb up my arse", you are contributing nothing to the discussion, and are only demonstrating your immaturity - a demonstration that was significantly compounded when you claimed your post was not an insult, but you were merely asking "a question about the pain that thumb must be causing".

Firstly i believe sarcasm is allowed ? Alas your rantings on this forum have no merits , apart from your Personal Choice not to believe . My Personal Choice is to believe As it should be . As for being immature ! Having a Medical Degree and currently studying for my MRCGP negates that "personal attack" . Unlike you i shall not be running to the MODS , after throwing
my dolls out the pram . Take a close look at my post you quoted Context is everything . Again have a fab day......

 

[Mariatenebre]

I spoke with several Roman Catholics over the weekend along with hearing a local broadcast where the question about the Pope's remark was discussed.

All said the same thing -- the only way to heaven was through Jesus Christ. They also said the Pope's remark was skewed by the media.

And again this show the evils of Catholicism and Christianity by worshiping a god who like a tyrant tortures all those that do not follow him. However I am sure that these same Catholics also think that your gay rear is going to Hell as well. My Yahweh is a terrible and brutal god!

 

[medic1]

And again this show the evils of Catholicism and Christianity by worshiping a god who like a tyrant tortures all those that do not follow him. However I am sure that these same Catholics also think that your gay rear is going to Hell as well. My Yahweh is a terrible and brutal god!

What only Christians , how about Islam and Allah ? You do put across a proper discussion , unlike others here .

 

[FirmaFan]

And i think , i know what i am saying ! YOUR FRIEND i believe has a proven record of showing disdain to members in this forum who do hold a Spiritual Belief . Have a nice day .

If I truly have expressed disdain or insulted or directed criticism towards an individual personally, show me where I have done so, and I will sincerely apologize for those. However, criticizing, expressing disdain, or disliking ideas put forth on these forums is perfectly within the realm of discussion - a differing of ideas, especially when it comes to religion, can often be conflated with personal attacks because people hold their beliefs so closely, and it can often feel that a criticism on those beliefs is a criticism of the person. I wish to express that this is not the case. The only things on this forum I have ever criticized are the ideas and doctrines put forth by others - I do not believe I have ever gone on the personal attack, nor do I wish anyone to believe that a criticism of their beliefs is a criticism of them personally.

 

[medic1]

If I truly have expressed disdain or insulted or directed criticism towards an individual personally, show me where I have done so, and I will sincerely apologize for those. However, criticizing, expressing disdain, or disliking ideas put forth on these forums is perfectly within the realm of discussion - a differing of ideas, especially when it comes to religion, can often be conflated with personal attacks because people hold their beliefs so closely, and it can often feel that a criticism on those beliefs is a criticism of the person. I wish to express that this is not the case. The only things on this forum I have ever criticized are the ideas and doctrines put forth by others - I do not believe I have ever gone on the personal attack, nor do I wish anyone to believe that a criticism of their beliefs is a criticism of them personally.

For once a valid post . As i have said before , and shall say again . Personal Choice . Do you not realise that the way you word your posts , does feel like you are judging members who do hold a different Personal Choice ?

 

[FirmaFan]

For once a valid post . As i have said before , and shall say again . Personal Choice . Do you not realise that the way you word your posts , does feel like you are judging members who do hold a different Personal Choice ?

I am sorry if my posts come across as judgmental, it is not my intention to do so. The single most interesting aspect of the discussion of religious beliefs is to try to find out why people believe what they believe, those reasons are what interest me the most, because those reasons will either convince me to believe as well, or, I'll respond with criticism as to why I do not feel those reasons are enough for belief (at least, for my belief). In many conversations, I usually don't get that the reason for belief is a simple personal choice. I don't think belief is a personal choice - can one personally choose to believe in Santa Clause? I know I can not simply choose to start believing in god, so, belief goes much beyond personal choice - and it is that which I am interested in discussing the most. Therefore, I do not feel I am being judgmental about someone's personal choice, but, again, if that is the tone you have gotten from my posts, I do apologize - sincerely.

 

[bort138]

For once a valid post . As i have said before , and shall say again . Personal Choice . Do you not realise that the way you word your posts , does feel like you are judging members who do hold a different Personal Choice ?

Why is it wrong to judge the beliefs of others? Beliefs have consequences and are acted upon in the real world. It's a dangerous precedent to set that certain beliefs should not be judged because they are deeply held by someone.

If someone deeply believes homosexuality is harmful to society for religious reasons, should that belief be off limits from judgement?