NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearbook

[sabot3ur]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

well that was awesome that the student yearbook staff was so inclusive!

but the administration just bending to the complaints of idiots like that was dumb.

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

TX also has a mandatory moment of silence at their public schools so I'm not surprised. And of course, the media always finds the one moronic Christian to make the token ignorant statement. It is really cool that the editor of the yearbook wanted to feature the gay couple in order to depict diversity. It's also awesome that the young couple felt comfortable enough to be photographed together in such a public manner. I think that says a lot for our youth. Times they are a changing!!

I wonder if the couple attended prom together?

 

[wraithsa]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

isnt that a freedom of press issue???????

 

[josher]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

^^Alpha is the one to answer that.

But I believe the Supreme Court ruled that high school student publications can be censored by school officials.

 

[spearsfan20]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

I congratulate that person who wanted to feature a gay couple in the yearbook to bring among diversity in her school. She may have wanted to bring diversity into her community as well. Whoever this guy/girl who did this can inspire other students in high schools to do the same to show that gay people are normal just like everybody else. I would had done the same thing if I was on the college yearbook staff.

 

[seven_sins]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

The kids who produced the yearbook are the future voters in this country. Things will change a lot when the older generations die out.

 

[RobinGoodfellow]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

1) Yeah; high schools have a limited freedom of the press. However, I think that the legal staff should have been consulted before the school censored the picture (discrimination issues; in this regard, not allowing gay/lesbian students the same rights as the regular students to have their pictures posted as couples).

2) Gee: 19 parents complained about the issue, and two named religious groups (I'm really starting to love the mysterious "religious groups" thing). Sorry; I'm just not seeing the large-scale hate here. There are some definite idiots, but I don't think less than two dozen people complaining constitutes a crowd, especially in light of just 140 comments being posted on a local church's comment board.

Of course, I love that there was a Catholic supporting the book's staff. but that's conveniently forgotten; must feed the stereotype, after all.

I would also hate to be the lieutenant governor; I sure hope that he wasn't planning a political career past this...

3) And what's wrong with a moment of silence?

RG

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: TX school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

isnt that a freedom of press issue???????

Not all speech is protected under the First Amnd. The Supreme Crt determined there are seven kinds of expression that the government may regulate to varying degrees w/o violating the First Amnd and student speech just happens to be one of the seven.

The issues of student speech have popped up in courts time and time again and it's a very complicated issue. Everything from depicting pregnant high school girls, to photographing high schoolers while they threw up gang signs, to posting pictures of gay couples has been battled in the crts. Of course, students don't give up all of their rights, but the fact is that school administrators can limit speech if they believe it is inappropriate or harmful to the student body and educational environment or if they believe the content is lewd or will infringe on an individuals rights. Usually, there'll be school policy which clearly states that the yearbook is considered a part of the curriculum and that the school administrators have the final say on all publications. This policy is usually upheld by the crts. Also, most states have specific code sections that spell out the limitations on student speech. If the policies weren't upheld, just imagine what the teens would print. I'm sure it would get pretty wild!

Also, schools aren't usually upheld as public forums (in this instance, a public forum is a place open to the free exchange of ideas. Like a park where a political rally is held, or the streets where some Christians are shouting, or even on the internet in some cases) However, if the school policy or custom turned the school publication into a public forum, or a place traditionally open to the free exchange of ideas, the school administrators would have less authority censor its content.

Check out Hazelwood School Dist. v. Kuhlmeier (1988); Pyle By and Through Pyle v. South Hadley School Committee (1994); Morse v Frederick (2007) all are great cases which analyze this complicated issue.

So, just from reading this news article (which really isn't that informative) there are some substantial arguments for demonstrating that the yearbook contains protected speech statements and vice versa of course. It's a federal issue and the Tenth Circuit is at least somewhat moderate. Still, it would be an uphill battle.

 

[Kulindahr]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

If gas prices weren't so high, I'd be tempted to go attend that next board meeting. It would be fun to stand up and identify myself as a Bible-believing Christian, and then have at them -- from the Bible.

White-washed tombs.

 

[Silvernitrate]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

wtf...I have many friends that went to high school there in Clovis! It's not a big city at all, but there are soo many gay people there!

It is a small town in the middle of No where! It's also next to a very small town that his a big college campus and gays are everywhere for it being such a small remote place. Im shocked they made a big deal out of this.. I'm going to call up my friends about this.

 

[hotcbr]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

Clovis, NM is a military town (USAF -- Cannon AFB)...generally more conservative people, so it's awesome to see this become an issue there. Good on the yearbook staff. Like someone already said, these kids will become tomorrow's USA. We are having similar "debates" here in South Carolina (re: Irmo High School principal resigning over a Gay-Straight Alliance Club). It is healthy to get this stuff in the open because it is exposing the ignorant and the intolerant. We may not win each battle, but we will eventually win the war (I just read where New York will recognize gay marriages from other states--I think the tide is turning our way). Oh, and on a side note, with all due respect to the people of Clovis, NM...I've been there a couple times and you couldn't drag me back there...lol.

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

Let's not forget that this is actually a good thing. The teens decided to display the gay couple in the yearbook, the couple felt comfortable doing so (or they were at least very brave), and no one seems to be complaining except a few administrators and parents. This is great! It's also a good learning experience for the rest of the students. They now have a first hand view into the prejudice and bias exhibited towards non-heteros. Perhaps this experience will make political activists out of them! At the very least this will be an eye opening experience for the town.

And Mattie, I'm certain there are aeithists bitching right along w/ the Christians. I didn't poll the crowd though to discern their beliefs.

 

[french]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

The caption had me at Jimmy Joe....

I am sickened that they are trying to quote the Bible to justify this homophobia, when schools are secular.

 

[Silvernitrate]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

...Oh, and on a side note, with all due respect to the people of Clovis, NM...I've been there a couple times and you couldn't drag me back there...lol.

I know exactly what you mean. If I didn't have some good friends there, I'd never go there again, it's so ugly.

It's so close to Texas, that it's a mix of Texas and New Mexicans in that town. people from small neighboring towns in Texas go to clovis nm to shop for things and hang out on the weekends. So it's a combination of Rural NM AND Rural west texas. It's basically hardcore conservative people living in a town with a lot of gay people for it's size.

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

i don't get what the difference is between gay couples, and straight couples that are often, knowingly or not, plastered all over yearbooks, unless they were doing something obscene like kissing with their hand down each other's pants. unless it was something overt then this is all your basic homophobia.

Yes, it really is simple homophobia. But for the sake of argument, the school can assert that same sex couples should not be featured in the yearbook b/c...

1. The pictures promote sexual relationships. It appears that most JUBBERS (and Americans) define their sexuality by who they lust after or by who they hook up w/. Little Adam is a gay kid b/c he thinks little Steve is hot. He lusts after his body, he wants to have sex w/ him, they "do stuff" to each other so posting little Adam and little Steve together is a direct display of sexual passion. Other students will see the picture and will think of sex and will think it's cool to get it on. Parents and community members will see the annual and will accuse the school of promoting promiscuous behavior among high school teens. Clearly this must be stopped. Of course, the counter argument is that pictures of hetero teen couples also promotes sexual relationships. Stereotypically though, girls are thought of as pure and good (it's the young fellas that are horn dogs) so the counter argument isn't as strong.

2. Depicting same sex couples will create a disruption in the classrooms. The yearbook has just come out and for the first time ever, Eve and Eva are shown as a couple in love. The students will talk about this for ages and will not be able to concentrate on their school work. The teens will gossip (we all know how disruptive kids can be) and the teachers will loose control of their classrooms.

3. Allowing same sex couples to be featured in an annual has the potential to cause physical harm to the students. Legally, schools are generally not required to provide the students w/ a safe environment, but just imagine all the violence that could potentially break out after the students saw the yearbook. There are probably some gay bashers at the school who will be enraged. There are probably some closet case kids who will want to fight. The halls, restrooms, locker rooms, and classrooms won't be safe. Everyone would have to be on constant guard and the school shouldn't be expected to pay for security guards. The school probably can't afford security guards. Also, what if a crazy community member were to come onto school grounds in order to teach the homo lovers a lesson. The school will not want to open itself up to these potential threats.

4. The pictures will sensationalize the school and damage its reputation. Schools also receive grants and other types of funding that must be sought after from the state government. Having such a scandal could cause these funds to dwindle down. Also, the school has been featured in the media for this incident which is never a positive experience. Colleges may stop recruiting there, community members may w/draw support, the media will certainly be a permanent fixture for a while. Instead of the school being viewed as an educational institution, it will be viewed as a hot spot for gay hook ups and teen age rebellion. It's like going from the NY Times to the National Enquirer. This will of course harm the student body and the community.

5. Depicting same sex couples in the yearbook is a political statement and the school will want to distance itself from it. It's no mystery that the homosexual and gender identity civil rights movement is on the rise (at least a bit). Several states and cities are questioning their laws and the voters passions run high. It's a volatile issue. Now, the yearbook is a school sponsored publication and featuring gay couples in the publications will cause the public to assume that the school is supporting, even favoring homosexuality. Whether they are for or against, public schools really shouldn't make political statements. Students can campaign and state their beliefs but the school, as an entity, shouldn't endorse these actions.

There are more arguments and vice versa but this is already pretty long.

 

[Apollo]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

why does anyone care. good lord

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

^Each of these arguments is seen in its proper perspective when "Eve" & "Eva" become Maggie (whose family is Protestant) & David (whose family is Jewish), or Tracy (who is black) & Steve (who is white).

I thought of this one too, but I think it's a bad counter argument to make--especially the black/white analogy. Integration is still somewhat fresh in the minds of Americans and it was a horrific scene. African Amercians were bused in and faced horrible violence. Households across the U.S. watched as the media displayed how these high schoolers were beaten, attacked by police dogs, spit on, etc. Also, inoccent, young bystanders were injured. Interracial couples also experienced horrific violence. I personally think that if you try to make the cross analogy that community members will think, "Oh my, I don't want my teens to go through that experience. What if they get hurt? I dont' them to see the violence." Also, don't forget that this is a high school w/ underage minors not a university w/ adults who are aware of the risks and have the minds and abilities to protect themselves. It's certainly interesting though. I think the ACLU did represent a case where a white female and black male couple were depicted in either the yearbook or the student newspaper but I can't remember the outcome or the name of the case.

^good point. if sexual partners is the excuse for banning pictures of gay students, then no straight boys should be allowed in pictures with straight girls.

Yes, I did admit to this one. But, stereotypically, society suggests that women should remain innocent virgins until marriage and although this isn't the reality, the typical expectation that girls don't put out may be enough to stop the idea that a hetero picture is sexual. Plus, hetero couples are much more common, so society and the students are numb to the sexual innuendos created by the picture. And, depending on how the couples were posed, it may be very hard to tell if a hetero guy and gal were really a couple or if they were just buds. On the other hand, you rarely see two guys sitting close to each other or being affectionate w/ one another so the sexual orientation depicted in the picture may be more obvious.

I think this whole issue will blow over rather shortly. It seems that only a very few are pissed.

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

i think this is one of this trickle-down issues. once the greater issue of gay rights/acceptance have been tackled, smaller issues like this will (hopefully) be eradicated. however, if i were the gay student who's pic was pulled, i'd be kinda pissed at being singled out.

Don't you think the gay couple was expecting it though? I do wonder if this was indeed an activist move by the high school annual staff and the couple. The student body seems awfully unified and I find it hard to believe that the advisor and the gay kids weren't aware of the potential downfall. If this was a political/acitivist move, then those kids are brilliant and it's wonderful that they're taking a stand for something that they believe in. I wonder if any gay couples attended the prom b/c the school can't refuse to allow same sex couples to do so. Was a stink raised then too or were these kids not dating then? I suppose the kids will have a great college essay topic for admissions now.

 

[Alpha1851]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

Blame them if you like...I'll take them at their word.

Don't put words into my mouth and try to claim that I'm blaming the teens for anything. "Blaming" makes it seem that I think the annual staff and the gay couple did something wrong, which obviously isn't my opinion. I specifically stated that they were all brave and that it was brilliant and exciting to see young people leading the way. I'm very supportive of gay rights so calm down bro.

So, what do you think the teens meant by "We just wanted to show that there is a diversity, there (are) gay and lesbian couples in the school and they have a right to be in the yearbook just as much as anybody else does,” ? Sounds pretty calculated to me. Clearly they had a reason for including this picture and it seems that they saw a need to show diversity. I'm sure these kids are aware that the gay civil rights issues are hot at the moment. It's not as though the teens are alleging that they didn't realize the kids in the picture were a homosexual couple or that the picture just appeared by mere coincidence. I think it was an activist move and this wouldn't be the first time that we've seen young people standing up for what they believe in. Why do I think the gay couple was aware of the potential downfall? B/c of what I've read on JUB and from what I have experienced w/ our GSA kids. The majority of ya'll have claimed that gay kids are bullied far more often than hetero kids and that gay kids feel that something is wrong w/ them b/c they aren't like their friends and society condemns homosexuality. Again, these teens have access to the internet and the news media, no doubt they are aware of the issues. The annual staff sponsor most certainly new of the rules and regs governing school publications and the policies of her school--it's her job after all. I hope that she'll be able to stand strong through this and I wish she'd make a huge public statement supporting gay youth.

 

[954dude]

Re: NM school in trouble for gay couple in yearboo

Gay couples are people too, they are real, they exist, and should be allowed to voice their opinions and be open about anything. This is a mess over nothing.