No blacks no Asians no curry no spice... yeah it's definitely racism so stop trying say it's a sexual preference

[mcbrion]

um. who are we to dictate someone's libido and sexual attraction? if they don't want this and that, then they don't want it. Same thing, if a person doesn't like another person because of how his/her preferences, they don't have to hook up with each other. That's going to be a bad way to start a relationship.

If I see a profile in grindr that says no to asians, or fat/chubby people, I'm not offended to be honest. I'm thankful I see a sign that we're not going to be compatible. I have a chance to stay away from those people. After all, I also do have my own preferences. I just don't post them on my profile, I just don't reply and also I let them down easily (doesn't happen often though).

But context wise, I am, going to say one thing. If there is a service that is essential that's going to undermine the safety of an individual (security/health etc), it should be given to everyone regardless of race. Such as hospital, police, government services, public school, shelter etc. We can make laws that enforce the giving of these services and those who work in those areas need to give it or else get out of such line of jobs.

But if it's a private thing like sexual attraction, making your own grindr profile or even baking a cake. These are non essential things we can live without and get from other suppliers/people. It's up to you to post a bad review on yelp or something but there shouldn't be laws to force these private individuals to do otherwise. there shouldn't be threats (physical/mental/emotional) that will force these private individuals to act otherwise. Let your friends other people decide if they'll listen and read your bad review and avoid the establishments themselves and let the law of supply and demand run its course.


Back to the sexual preference thing... So, you run across someone who is using their freedom of speech to say who they want.

Will arguing with them change their preferences somehow?

Agreed.

My arguments are for the purpose of bringing to light latent and unrecognized tendencies someone might have around race. As far as it being personal, let me tell you a story.

In the '70s, my best friend, Odis (the guy who is my avatar) and I were the only two gay Black guys who worked out in SF. Consequently, we were highly desired. There was a catch: the desire was simply part of the "Mandingo Complex" mentality that existed back then. We were sexual trophies, desired by many guys of the "A" crowd. But they didn't want to date us: they just wanted to have sex with a Black guy, and, using their fantasies and fetishes, they approached either Odis or I, since we were the only two "acceptable" Black guys who were - as a Black lesbian put it - "In it but not of it." Meaning, we circulated among the "A" crowd of the day, but noticed their superficiality when it came to WHY they were choosing someone, and Odis, even more than me (just look at his face: the man was GORGEOUS), disliked being an "object of desire" in the same way that, say, Rita Hayworth noted that "men went to bed with Gilda, but woke up to me." So, for the two members suggesting it is simply about sexual desire, it bloody hell is not! It was - at one time - a gay guy wanting you only because he could brag about you to his friends (which is how the "A" crowd of that era operated). Frankly, straight men are just as bad: Candice Bergen once noted that "men are such fools." She saw that all she had to do was be beautiful and guys would fall at her feet. The gay community is, in large degree, even worse about that. Now, I read such things as "he's out of your league." If that isn't fucked up, I don't know that is. I DO see, that it is slightly different now, but the same ignorance of "why I like what I like" is the same. And for the guy who talked about his friend only dating Asians: WHY is he dating them? Because he thinks they're all "submissive little rice flowers" or does he appreciate the culture that birthed them. Some of the reasons for our desires are - excuse my english - screwed up 6 ways to Sunday. Pathological, not humanitarian. ANYWAY...

Myself, I preferred the sweet-natured, nice looking but "ordinary" (by other people's estimations) guys. Of course, they had personalities, as well as a heart, which could not be said for many of the A crowd guys, who had pretty low self esteem.
Since we were "acceptable," any guy we went home with circulated stories of our dick size, which then meant we had to deal with even more guys with sexual fantasies about Black guys.

Without dragging this out more, some of this "preference" this is not even remotely about WHO you're attracted to. It's about WHAT your fantasies are and who can fulfill them.

I completely agree that I'm glad to know what someone writes in their profile tells me everything I need to know about how they see their fellow man: as just a "thing" to be acquired, or whether they have a soul (a matter of debate if you go by behavior alone) and actually see a holistic human being in front of them, complete with feelings or not.

I'm a bit sad for the minority guys nowadays who do not have the gift of age that I have (nearly 7 decades) and, having come from a time where I went from being hated to being desired (and for those saying, he's bragging, go get a copy of Crawford Bartons (a San Francisco photographer, contemporary of Mapplethorpe) books on gay life. You'll find several images of me and Odis in them, although I didn't find them that flattering, but hey - it was a chronicle of gay life in San Francisco in the '70s (obviously, pre-AIDS)). No need to brag the there is plenty of evidence that Odis and I rarely walked into a room, where heads did not turn pretty quickly.

But I digress. Nowadays, the - shall we call it - "racism" is different. Me, I don't doff my shirt any more to attract attention, although, in the summer, when I wear tank tops, heads still turn, so "unpreferred"??? Not even remotely. But I'm not about just "me." I'm about consciousness, and that's what my arguments are about. Not me personally, but, as I said, awareness. One of my best friends is a White guy, 77, and nice looking. He constantly looks for Black guys to be in a relationship with, but he lacks the one thing he needs: an interest in the culture that the Black guys come from - and they realize it by the fact that he never shows any interest in the culture that birthed them, or even what life was like for them growing up. (If you're gonna date a guy of another culture, here's a clue as to whether or not you have "racism" in you: you just want the guy for desire/fulfillment and have zero interest in the fat that he's not a White guy with dark skin, but someone of a culture with different values, ethics, and experiences. If you're not interested in knowing ANY of that, and you just want the guy? You're racist in nature, if not in action. It's easy for me to separate out the genuine from the superficial, but so many brothers and other younger minority guys seem so hurt by this. I have a fixed experience from the '60s, and that informed me in a way that I don't think the younger minority guy guys "get." They have - unfortunately - a sense of expectation - if not entitlement - that they should be desirable. Ah, if only Life were that fair and just. But it is not. And it is THEY who will have to adjust to the fact that there is a new kind of racism out there now, based on a lack of empathy, and the he's-not-heavy-he's-my-brother ethos of the '60s. Nowadays, with apps rampant, guys just stick their head in their phones to meet someone. Gone are the days where you had to meet face to face, actually look someone in the eyes, and make conversation (No "160 character" conversations back then! And some conversations now just start with "Hey." Ugh. Pardon my judgement, but how utterly superficial can you be that you can't even write an entire sentence to someone you are supposedly interested in???) So, the less actual human contact you are forced to have, the less actual empathy you develop in yourselves. Why bother, when you can simply not type a response back and move on to the next person in 5 seconds or less.

So, to the younger minorities reading this: use the responses you get to evaluate the person you're trying to get to notice you. And then, GROW FROM IT. Too many people miss the oriole flying overhead because they have their head up their ass ....sorry: face in their phone. What's missing is not necessarily racism (of the old sort). It's a lack of humanity and empathy, so guys just want what they want, and don't expand their interests until such time as they age, and can no longer summon a torso to appear at their door. When they hit 50, things will change, but until then? Don't expect change. I've observed it over 7 decades. It happens WAY more slowly now than it EVER did before. Yes, it's racist, but it's based in a "can't-be-bothered to learn about others" culture. And a very high degree of the culture is like that now.

 

[mcbrion]

This is Odis, my avatar, and my late, Beautiful (in every sense of the word) best friend, whom I've mentioned in my post, above.

 

[KaraBulut]

Question though. What would you get out of berating someone about their "preferences"?

You see a grindr profile posting "no asians".

They're not telling you about their "preferences" as much as they're telling you that they don't like asians.

It's kind of like that friend who goes to a restaurant with you and proceeds to tell you everything on the menu that they don't like.

They're also telling you that they're not interested in the person. They're just looking for a particular fantasy for a night or two. If you're looking for a quick lay and you match their criteria, then they might be worth their time. If you're looking for someone who is serious and interested in something more than a one-night stand, then those people who say "No ____" are probably not worth your time.

Honestly, it's a waste of time reading profiles and personal ads that contain so much negativity.

He constantly looks for Black guys to be in a relationship with, but he lacks the one thing he needs: an interest in the culture that the Black guys come from - and they realize it by the fact that he never shows any interest in the culture that birthed them, or even what life was like for them growing up.

Or in other words, he's not really interested in them. He's just interested in the fantasy he's created around Black guys.

That's right: if you want to get something, go buy it, and you will get what you are paying for.

And if they're paying, they have the right to order the dish they want.

 

[DepravedMuscleFTL]

And for the guy who talked about his friend only dating Asians: WHY is he dating them? Because he thinks they're all "submissive little rice flowers" or does he appreciate the culture that birthed them.

actually he is vers/bottom - he has no interest in dom/sub - he is ATTRACTED to the classic traditional looks that are Asian...

it's really nice that you and others want to talk substance - but that is not what this thread is about - it's about what makes our dicks hard - and no one needs to be apologetic for that - not everyone - in fact most guys are just looking for a good time - every statistic in the world will confirm that - that is why divorce on grounds of infidelity is nearly 90% - a majority of guys want no sting sex and there is nothing wrong with that - and there is nothing wrong with persuing what attracts you most - if guys want to play with Black guys because they think they are hung like donkeys then by all means they should - if guys want to play with Asian men because they think they are "submissive rice flowers" then they should -

I personally favor big brutal men - think Goldberg - but I am attracted to almost every type - I do not care how intelligent or successful they are or are not - I don't care about their feelings - I just want to fuck them - it's not about another niche in the headboard - its about no strings lust and pleasure - I don't somehow lead them to believe that I want something more than just immediate sex - it's just about having sex with someone who is desirable in my eyes - and ain't a damn thing wrong with it - and ain't a damn thing racist about it - they either harden the dick or they don't - guys like Justin Beiber and Chris Rock will never get it to rise and guys like Ryan Reynolds and Tyson Beckford couldn't get the swelling to go down if they had a baseball bat - it's not racist - its SEXUAL APPEAL AND PREFERENCE

 

[opinterph]

Preference has been used by almost everyone posting in this thread, it's even in the title. How is my context different, because it has to do with sex?

If a job ad said, "no blacks or fatties," people's heads would be exploding. How is one racism and the other isn't? Just because one is advertising for an employee and the other is advertising for a sex partner, does that really make the context different?

What if a white employer says his preference is for whites, or a landlord, or a taxi driver?

… we are talking bedfellows here not employees

In the United States (and in your country as well) federal law regulates how an employer may go about recruiting an employee, while seeking a bedfellow is not subject to similar scrutiny. (i.e. entirely different context)

 

[mcbrion]

Hmmmm. this site seems to sign me out before I complete what I wrote. Good thing I copied and pasted.
Here is what I wrote in its entirety.

actually he is vers/bottom - he has no interest in dom/sub - he is ATTRACTED to the classic traditional looks that are Asian...

it's really nice that you and others want to talk substance - but that is not what this thread is about - it's about what makes our dicks hard - and no one needs to be apologetic for that - not everyone - in fact most guys are just looking for a good time - every statistic in the world will confirm that - that is why divorce on grounds of infidelity is nearly 90% - a majority of guys want no sting sex and there is nothing wrong with that - and there is nothing wrong with persuing what attracts you most - if guys want to play with Black guys because they think they are hung like donkeys then by all means they should - if guys want to play with Asian men because they think they are "submissive rice flowers" then they should -

I personally favor big brutal men - think Goldberg - but I am attracted to almost every type - I do not care how intelligent or successful they are or are not - I don't care about their feelings - I just want to fuck them - it's not about another niche in the headboard - its about no strings lust and pleasure - I don't somehow lead them to believe that I want something more than just immediate sex - it's just about having sex with someone who is desirable in my eyes - and ain't a damn thing wrong with it - and ain't a damn thing racist about it - they either harden the dick or they don't - guys like Justin Beiber and Chris Rock will never get it to rise and guys like Ryan Reynolds and Tyson Beckford couldn't get the swelling to go down if they had a baseball bat - it's not racist - its SEXUAL APPEAL AND PREFERENCE

I'd suggest you go back and read the link that provoked this thread.

It is CLEARLY about dating AND sex. As I have pointed out - and I guess you missed it - a person can agree to have sex with someone of a different ethnicity that they would not agree to also date. "Asians/Blacks/transgenders____________ (insert a group) are fine to have sex with, but I wouldn't date one." The fact that the limited response from guys on this site as to their "preferences" just masks the greater picture. It's fascinating how so many failed to read the ENTIRE article and reduced it to just "who they would have sex with, because that's their preference." Does this mean that these same guys have many friends who are minorities. Careful before you answer, since a poll done two years ago in the US showed that 75% of Whites have NO Black friends. That could as easily been Hispanics/Muslims/Asians/Indians, since it is unusual that people's affinity for/against other ethic groups AND CULTURES is restricted in favor of one, but against others. I.E., "yes, I have many Black friends, but I don't like Hispanics at all." It's usually a "sweep" against ALL minorities. Usually. And having been part of a group that studied this, I'll take my research over your opinions as well as a few other vocal members, whom I DOUBT have the remotest knowledge of what they speak. One went so far as to use the old "99 out of 100" trope. He's foolish. And wrong. At least I know where he stands. When I was the Mayor of San Francisco's public relations assistant, I started a diversity photo shoot, because all the photos in The Citys' photo library that I myself sent to newspapers ONLY contained pictures of Whites (Willie Brown was the mayor at the time, and he was not happy with the lack of diversity). I pointed that out to my boss and asked her how she thought it would look to Shirley Wong, one of the members on the Board and head of Chinatown's powerful agency, would feel about seeing two photos of the three
Chinese men singing on a corner. She was alarmed enough that now, every year, a photo shoot called San Francisco Life - owned by Bill Gates' Corbis agency - is done. It not only includes gays, but seniors, Hispanics (there were NO photos of Hispanics prior to that, and the pictures of Chinatown were - aside from the usual street pictures, only two photos of a group of Chinese men singing. No pictures of them in the tea room at the Hilton, or picnicking on the beach, or dinner at the Mark Hopkins. In other words, the City itself presented a picture of racism that remained in place before I knocked their heads around. And Gates' agency took credit for my idea. (sigh) What the Hell, as long as it raised consciousness.

And to suggest that the gay community, a microcosm of the greater Macrocosm, is any less racist is simply a sign of obliviousness. Not hateful obliviousness, but racism is rarely recognized by its practitioners, is it?

So, Let me save you the trouble of reading the linked story, and just pull a part of it, so you can comprehend the substance of the article.
To wit:


"

A new Australian study published in Archives of Sexual Behavior entitled “Is Sexual Racism Really Racism?” suggests that the answer to that question is probably “yes.” Sex researchers Denton Callander, Christy Newman, and Martin Holt asked over 2,000 gay and bisexual Australian men how they felt about race and dating through an online survey. These men also completed a region-specific version of the Quick Discrimination Index (QDI), a standard survey instrument that measures attitudes on race and diversity.

After putting these two data sets together, the trend was clear: “Sexual racism… is closely associated with generic racist attitudes, which challenges the idea of racial attraction as solely a matter of personal preference.

As part of their research, Callander and his colleagues created a new eight-question survey to determine men’s attitudes toward racial preferences on online dating apps like Grindr. Respondents were asked whether or not they agreed with statements like “People who indicate a racial preference in their profile are not trying to offend anyone,” and “As long as people are polite about it, I see no problem in indicating a racial preference on my profile.” Remaining “neutral” was also an option. The men were assigned scores based on their responses.

"



Is this clearer how the two are entertained now?

It should be evident by my responses I am not TELLING anyone who they should date. I AM telling them that their attitudes need closer examination. What they do with all this depends on whether they operate at a low level of "enlightenment" or a higher one. Based on many responses on here? LOW. And defensive. A knee-jerk reaction. I have yet to see anyone say, "Well, this IS what I like, but I have to admit, I never thought of it differently.
And another thing. You are what, 40? I'm 70. Kindly don't tell me, the half-Black man about your limited experience in these matters, as though you have thought about it past a post on a forum (as have so many others), when my LIFE experience not only exceeds your by 30 years (you weren't even alive when the Civil Rights Movement or the Women's Movement started, but I have also spent a good deal of my life writing about these things in smaller publications. The fact that it involved Civil Rights instead of "sexual preference" changes nothing. People were oblivious about the "Me, Too" movement until women forced it. Up to that point, even Hollywood was resistant to the idea of it all.
And you think the gay community is exempt? What gives you that idea? Right now, in San Francisco, a committee has been formed for this exact reason: the racism in the gay community. And racism extends into ALL areas of life: economic, political and SOCIAL (which includes sex and dating). Pick up an issue of the BAR (Bay Area Reporter) or go to. www.ebar.com and read it. I'm just a bit ahead of the wave, not behind it. I spend years trying to get the gay community integrated in bars, stores and other areas. Even when AIDS came out, I had to fight to get agencies to send people into the Black community to educate them on AIDS. The pushback was intense. One of my White friends, who dated Black men exclusively, was on a committee for education. When he pushed for there to be expansion into the Black community, one of the board members told him - and I quote - "They aren't a priority." THIS WAS A MAJOR AIDS ORGANIZATION SAYING BLACKS WERE NOT A PRIORITY.
What, you think they felt differently in their private lives???? Don't. Just don't. That is how ignorance works. And you don't grasp the complexities of it all, but if you read the article, you might be a smidgeon - and JUST a smidgeon - more enlightened.

 

[belamyi]

I recall once starting a thread asking jubbites whether they felt their 'ideal type' (preferential type, whatever... ) was like a particular gender in itself, beyond actual gender, race, beyond looks... nobody got it. As they don't now

 

[mcbrion]

I recall once starting a thread asking jubbites whether they felt their 'ideal type' (preferential type, whatever... ) was like a particular gender in itself, beyond actual gender, race, beyond looks... nobody got it. As they don't now

People can learn, but without extensive pushback, they do not. Hollywood was resistant to Rose McGowan's taling about the sexual harrassement factor in Hollywood, because the considered her a "disgruntled actress." (i.e., she was an "A-List" star.) This board is no different.

And despite Kara Bulut's "unoriginal" statement, sometimes these forums are about all the actual contact gay men have for controversial issues. It is pretty clear who has - and doesn't have - many minority friends. Otherwise, those friends would have kicked them in the head by now and said, "you think WHAT????? You fool!" And it would have gotten heated between them and their friends.

People who think "sex," "preference" and "dating" are not entertwined live in an alternate Universe, one of their own mind's making .

Maybe if they'd been adults 40 years ago, when gays were in for the fight of their lives, they'd have a clearer picture. But they don't. They were - perhaps - uncomfortably ensconced in their closets, while me and my friends were fighting Anita Bryant and The Briggs Initiative. And by "friends," I include Harvey Milk, among others, who, fortunately, would NOT have been cool with the attitude of some of these posters. He was a surly bastard, but he was relentless in his push for equality. And he endorsed social justice in that push. But even he was a bit oblivious about the immediate environment. It wasn't until Marlon Riggs released "Tongues Untied" in 1988, that all my White gay friends actually realized they had a few, um, limitations in their thinking around "race." If you were a Black gay, and hung out in the Castro, where I had an art gallery, you knew the score.
How little "the score" has changed 45 years later...and how sad.

 

[mikey3000]

​

In the United States (and in your country as well) federal law regulates how an employer may go about recruiting an employee, while seeking a bedfellow is not subject to similar scrutiny. (i.e. entirely different context)

Sorry, nope. Just because one is regulated and the other isn't doesn't mean that it's ok. It wasn't that long ago that employers, landlords and others were not regulated by the charter. Obviously there is a need for it.

 

[belamyi]

^ We have lived a flash in the pan of the everlasting unchanged world... what is considered "natural" and "real" world, with roles and rules... Once the economy supporting all this "paradise" starts cracking, it will all go down the sewer back to the "natural", savage state.

 

[mcbrion]

damned site. It kept telling me "you do not have permission to post," asked me to prove I wasn't arobot, did the usual "pick all the photos with panda bears in them...oops, now pick all the photos with palm trees...oops, now all the photos with Republicans.... and then, makes me sign in, and THEN, when it lets me in, it duplicates my post. I wouldn't blame people for falling asleep on my posts even on the best of days, but this is absurd. Sorry, guys.

 

[KaraBulut]

damned site. It kept telling me "you do not have permission to post," asked me to prove I wasn't arobot, did the usual "pick all the photos with panda bears in them...oops, now pick all the photos with palm trees...oops, now all the photos with Republicans.... and then, makes me sign in, and THEN, when it lets me in, it duplicates my post. I wouldn't blame people for falling asleep on my posts even on the best of days, but this is absurd. Sorry, guys.

It does that if the post is large or has a lot of bbcode in it. It's part of the anti-spam software. It happens to me quite often on longer posts.

 

[epeboy]

​

In the United States (and in your country as well) federal law regulates how an employer may go about recruiting an employee, while seeking a bedfellow is not subject to similar scrutiny. (i.e. entirely different context)

My point exactly.

If you're offended about someone verbalizing their preferences and you don't like it, then stay from that person. Don't be their friend. Tell others what heard/saw if you want too.

But calling for the head of that person and calling their workplace and try to take away his/her livelihood are extreme.

Even more so, forcing them to go out or have sex with someone they don't really like. Isn't that rape cause they got forced to do it?

 

[epeboy]

Sorry, nope. Just because one is regulated and the other isn't doesn't mean that it's ok. It wasn't that long ago that employers, landlords and others were not regulated by the charter. Obviously there is a need for it.

You want to punish legally someone if they won't date other ethnicities?

 

[mikey3000]

I'm showing that, yes it is discrimination. You do what works for you.

 

[DepravedMuscleFTL]

And another thing. You are what, 40? I'm 70. Kindly don't tell me, the half-Black man about your limited experience in these matters, as though you have thought about it past an occasional post on a forum (as have so many others), when my LIFE experience not only exceeds your by 30 years (you weren't even alive when the Civil Rights Movement or the Women's Movement started)

I am nearly 60 and born and raised in BALTIMORE - I can assure you that I have slept with more BLACK men in just one year of my life than you have in your entire life - I have slept with THOUSANDS of black men -

over 2,000 gay and bisexual Australian men how they felt about race and dating through an online survey

the BLACK population of Australia is estimated at LESS THAN 2% - and the population of Australia is 26th in the world - what that means is that they surveyed a bunch of homos that haven't even seen a BLACK man - they have no idea of what BLACK culture is - they have never lived and worked or experienced BLACK culture

these statistics used are so flawed that it is LAUGHABLE - bring me statistics from Detroit and we can talk

 

[USEDCAR]

At the end of the day we all have our own taste in men and/or women. If your not attracted to a certain race that's your personal preference.

 

[Dominus]

I recall once starting a thread asking jubbites whether they felt their 'ideal type' (preferential type, whatever... ) was like a particular gender in itself, beyond actual gender, race, beyond looks... nobody got it. As they don't now

I have noticed over the years pf my existence is people rarely say in public what they truly think especially if what they think are not fashionable.

 

[opinterph]

75% of Whites have NO Black friends. That could as easily been Hispanics/Muslims/Asians/Indians

If you are referencing the 2013 American Values Survey performed by the Public Religion Research Institute, the “no friends” does include all other identities.

Three quarters of whites don’t have any non-white friends (The Washington Post; August 2014)​

 

[peeonme]

How can a person prove that they aren't a racist? If they are white they can't. Once the finger is pointed and the cry goes out it's over. I don't want to hang around with anyone who is looking for a reason to call me a racist. I don't want to hear about white privilege, I can't help it that I am a white man. I have black neighbors and it took a while for me to feel safe around them, not because of fear of getting mugged, robbed or shot. Rather it was because of past experience with blacks accusing me solely because I am a white man. "You did that because" You said that because", they term "racist" gets over used and because of this many just tune it out. Why in the world would you want to be around someone that is looking to stereotype you?