No Support from Friends

[FloydtheWizard]

So I came out to my friends this past year, 2009, around the summer towards the end of the year. At different stages, I let different people know, or they found out from each other, until my core unit knew. I expected them to be fine with it, and they were. Or at least I thought so. They support me 100%, but their actions are what I typically judge by. This is the problem I've run into. Despite my coming out and avidly being against any anti-gay speech and actions, they still do it. They say they're sincere, but its still the same old jokes and cracks. And not jokes about things that are fine. I don't have a problem poking fun at my being gay, but when it comes to stereotypes that don't fit me at all or things that don't even make sense it infuriates me. Mostly because I know behind it they're not actually kidding, but actually think this about gay people. What makes it worse, they try to veil it in a way thats not offensive to me but it just makes it all the more potent. Like saying something off hand about being gay and then turning to me, saying "No offense". I hadn't taken offense until you started applying things to me, making it seem like these things you are supposed to be just joking about are real facets of my homosexuality.

For instance, a friend likes the term faggot. I personally don't like it, have told him I don't. But he says "I mean cigarette butt!" And I say bullshit. I told him he uses it in places where he could place 'gay' or 'homo', as he occasionally does. I'm tired of fighting him on it. He tried to tell me the other day he doesn't consider me 'gay', because he loves to use the 'that's gay' phrase, but instead just a homosexual. I told him I am gay, and he tried to argue it! He also uses 'homo' as a negative all the time, so his point is lost, if it ever was there. And to have the audacity to do this when we have been friends over half our lives just makes it hurt. I feel like he should be in my corner, especially all those times he's ranted and raved to me about his problems.

Its mostly I expected things to be better when I came out to my friends but its feeling like things are worse. Maybe they will change soon. I needed to get this off my chest. Any advice would help. I really don't want to lose them, because if I severe ties with the few bad apples my whole collective circle of friends will basically die and I'll be down to one or maybe not even that.

 

[AlmondMilk]

I completely agree with the "No offense" thing. Whether a comment is gay or not, if you didn't mean to offend, then don't make the statement

But yeah, just when you have the chance, I think it would be best to tell the person up-front when you're both alone in the room. Tell him that you want him to be honest with you...and don't cover words and censor words as he tries to do. I guess either you ignore when he says "faggot" or get a new friend, though, because asking him to be real, yet not liking it kind of puts him in a situation where he thinks, "What do I do now?" So he starts covering it with "cigarette butt" which you don't like as well! It's kind of a lose-lose thing on his end. I say you should just ignore those comments and kind of show them that stereotypes are stereotypes. You're not gonna turn on your friendship and try to hook up with all of your friends now that you're out. I guess let them know that and just show that you're the same friend they always knew.

 

[Seasoned]

Anytime a person has a big change in life, coming out, for example, all one's friends are also affected. This guy is not being a friend if he doesn't listen. I'd try talking to him and asking for his support. Tell him what you told us. Next, I would advise you to try expanding your circle of friends to include some gay guys. No matter how cool straight friends of mine might be about being gay, sometimes they just don't get it. I think we have different friends for different reasons. You need to feel safe and equal when your with yours.

 

[KaraBulut]

Actions speak louder than words.

If your friends are supportive and accepting of you in other ways, then it might make more sense to either ignore the comments or give it back to them ("No offense" --> "No offense taken, breeder"). If these are real friends and they accept you for who you are, then their actions are more important that the childish posturing that guys do.

On the other hand, if your friends aren't supportive and the mocking of effeminate gays is a symptom of their homophobia and bigotry (and defiance of the laws of evolution), then you would be better off with less Neanderthal friends.

 

[rareboy]

I really don't want to lose them, because if I severe ties with the few bad apples my whole collective circle of friends will basically die and I'll be down to one or maybe not even that.

So where's the loss?

Get new friends. Who love you for everything you are.

And make sure that you do it right under their noses.

These people aren't your friends; not by any stretch of the imagination.

The ones who get the point will try to support you and stay part of your life and the ones who don't....well, you are way better off wothout the unpleasantness and stress they cause.

 

[infamousgreek]

It sounds to me like the "You're not gay" friend is quite the jackass. My suggestion: tell them that it hurts you when they do all these things. If they continue, fuck them. Although this may be hard, it shows you have self-respect, a trait most people dont have. Good luck!

 

[FloydtheWizard]

Thanks guys. I'll try to talk to the few who have a problem individually again. Spell it out for them. I'm trying to make some new friends at school, too, especially gay ones.

 

[kramer362]

They're being incredibly immature, and probably doing it because they see you, their friend, as 'outside' what they figure most gay people are.

What I would do is pick something about them to joke around in a similar fashion. I tend not to get offended because I can quickly pull out an illogical assumption about a characteristic of them, and put the joke on them all in good fun; and this can point out the flaw in generalizations also. If they're Italian, you can call them a jersey shore guido and say all italians are like that. If they protest to that representation, you can take the opportunity to say you equally don't care to be represented by whatever flamboyant and weak persona they try to equate gays with. Just an example...

Or you could sit them down and ask why they think that's ok to do?

 

[tallguy297]

"Old habits die hard" - its probably pretty apt here Floyd.

You've got to remember that these guys have a lifetime of ingrained ignorance to deal with... while you've known you were gay all your life, they've known for a few months. And sadly we all say and do things without thinking a lot of times.

Still, that doesn't excuse them for ever. And only you know what these guys mean to you and the amount of slack you should cut them.

But all means talk to them. Explain to them and ask them to pull their heads in - that's what friends do, the work things out, help each other and guide each other. I think you've taken exactly the right path and when they see that there actions have consequences I'm sure they will make an effort.

If not them you'll know for sure Floyd that there really weren't friends after all.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah, you've been dealing with this for a long time, they haven't.

It's certainly possible that they're haters and assholes, but I'd be inclined to give them the benefit of the doubt for a while.

Just stick to your guns, don't let the slights pass, if they are your friends, eventually they'll listen.

I knew this one guy who had it in his head that if he kept up the 'phobic cant he used around me before I was out, that this somehow meant that he accepted me as a gay man.

I never did see the sense in that, but that's what he thought.

The other thing that got under my skin - was the "but you're one of the good ones," kind of attitude. It's like conditional acceptance, they'll accept you so long as you don't look or act like one of "them."

Good luck. Feel free to rant away in here.

After all, you're one of the good ones, and you're not one of them......... (grin)

 

[TX-Beau]

Oh, and I'm assuming you're all pretty young, so in addition to having to find their footing with you, they're still trying to find their footing in life. Youth merits chances.

 

[FloydtheWizard]

They're being incredibly immature, and probably doing it because they see you, their friend, as 'outside' what they figure most gay people are.

Yeah, I have the feeling this is the case for ones who have a negative view of homosexuals. When I came out they had no idea so its still very new to them. I'm almost set aside from other gays, and only included as an after thought of "Oh, thats right. Floyd is gay too. Maybe I shouldn't have said that"

You guys are right, too, that I have been coming to terms with this for a while now but its very new to them. I've still been fighting against the negative stereotypes that they think gay men are.

Recently I talked to one and we have come to a better understanding, but he still holds onto some of his negative stereotypes from before. Like we were joking once and he said some off hand comment about him being a real man as opposed to a gay man. So I got into a tiff with him about that, asking him if he thought I wasn't a man. But things like this are helping, I think. Standing up for myself, and against those type of things actually make me feel a bit better, albeit a bit distant from them.

 

[rareboy]

I still think they don't sound like they're worth the effort.

While it is good to stand up for yourself, you have to wonder why you'd invest the time with 'friends' who really aren't friends at all....just acquaintances.

When I was in University, I went through something similar. And then I realized what a fucking waste of time they were.
And expanded my circle of acquaintances to included more talented, experienced and intelligent people. By the time we were graduating, my old circle looked like the remnants of a sad high school loser clique, while I was part of a crowd that just crackled with creativity and accepting of one another, no matter their sexual preference, skin colour, religious or political beliefs.

 

[phonex]

It sounds to me like the "You're not gay" friend is quite the jackass. My suggestion: tell them that it hurts you when they do all these things. If they continue, fuck them. Although this may be hard, it shows you have self-respect, a trait most people dont have. Good luck!