North Korea Executes Uncle to Kim Jong-Un

[star-warrior]

Just for the record, it seems China has no control over Kim now. China has been sending embassadors to Russia to mediate. That its mouthpiece newspapers are openly critising Korea now is a sign that there is no love lost. Korea and those of Korean descent have for historical reasons been anti-Chinese, and mostly because of the Sino-Korean War. North Korea's Kim having gotten rid of his pro-china link uncle has sent a stern message - those that do business with China are best slaughtered and killed by ravenous dogs. This is the level of contempt for its larger neighbour it has. Prior visits of American diplomats have come away indicating that North Korea has no qualms in facing it's nuclear arsenal towards China.

 

[Stardreamer]

If you haven't seen it yet, College Humor makes an absolutely hilarious series of videos making fun of how NK glorifies and propagandizes the 'great leaders' in an anime style adventure series. Watch and listen carefully for the little subliminal texts and audio clips from the animators 'eagerly' working on the project. This is the first one:

 

[guyfromNY]

With everything that I know about North Korea, I think that there is only one thing that will bring it down; a chernobyl like disaster that will leave them with no choice but to totally open up their doors. A citizens revolt seems impossible because they already have a quarter of a million people in gulags and after we invaded iraq, there is no way the US will do it to another country unless they struck first...

 

[Kulindahr]

Just for the record, it seems China has no control over Kim now. China has been sending embassadors to Russia to mediate. That its mouthpiece newspapers are openly critising Korea now is a sign that there is no love lost. Korea and those of Korean descent have for historical reasons been anti-Chinese, and mostly because of the Sino-Korean War. North Korea's Kim having gotten rid of his pro-china link uncle has sent a stern message - those that do business with China are best slaughtered and killed by ravenous dogs. This is the level of contempt for its larger neighbour it has. Prior visits of American diplomats have come away indicating that North Korea has no qualms in facing it's nuclear arsenal towards China.

That's exceptionally worrisome. With the new and inexperienced leader as deep in a fantasy world as he seems, there's no telling what might make him think he can nuke something and get away with it.

 

[Vitamin]

With everything that I know about North Korea, I think that there is only one thing that will bring it down; a chernobyl like disaster that will leave them with no choice but to totally open up their doors. A citizens revolt seems impossible because they already have a quarter of a million people in gulags and after we invaded iraq, there is no way the US will do it to another country unless they struck first...

That's exceptionally worrisome. With the new and inexperienced leader as deep in a fantasy world as he seems, there's no telling what might make him think he can nuke something and get away with it.

Meh. I'll worry when China cuts off NK's food supply.

 

[Kulindahr]

Meh. I'll worry when China cuts off NK's food supply.

Maybe they should drug it.

 

[Benvolio]

With everything that I know about North Korea, I think that there is only one thing that will bring it down; a chernobyl like disaster that will leave them with no choice but to totally open up their doors. A citizens revolt seems impossible because they already have a quarter of a million people in gulags and after we invaded iraq, there is no way the US will do it to another country unless they struck first...

We now know that in the end the people closest to Stalin and Ceaucescu hated them and did nothing to save them. Same with tyrants of old like Caligula, Tyberiius, Nero and others. This Kim seems more ruthless, if possible, than the last two. His execution of his uncle and the 9 member band are so extreme. I suspect they will find a way to get rid of Kim and soon. It would be harder to predict an end to the regime but there must be guys in the regime who are fed up with the whole thing.

 

[R.B.S.]

China now need more people who are ready to work 12 hours a day for a dollar. Chinese people don't want to do it anymore.

China may use labour force of North Korea and bring more capitalism to them.

China itself is now a capitalist society, they have Mao portrait, but we all understand that they are not communists anymore.

 

[R.B.S.]

We now know that in the end the people closest to Stalin and Ceaucescu hated them and did nothing to save them.

Five years after the death of Ceausescu Romanians began to say that he was a good leader.
http://articles.baltimoresun.com/19...041_1_elena-ceausescu-nicolae-ceausescu-grave

Romanians are poor and angry.

And North Korea is not Romania or the USSR. It's much worser.

You kill Kim and give them freedom and they will hate you. You will get 20 millions of frustrated people who will not understand how to live.


Noth Korean refugees who went to South Korea at first don't understand freedom. Moderately they get into it, but they still feel that they are not equal to South Koreans and they began to hate them. They don't understand how to find a job.

 

[opinterph]

Five years after the death of Ceausescu Romanians began to say that he was a good leader.

That is interesting. Thanks for sharing the link.

 

[R.B.S.]

opinterph
You are welcome!
I feel sorry for the people of NK. Ordinary people. They are in sh*t now, but they will feel bad in the new situation too.
I think that maybe China can help them to open step by step. The Chinese can understand them better.

 

[palbert]

MEA CULPA

The "dog story" appears to be false. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/06/story-kim-jong-un-uncle-fed-dogs-made-up

 

[Kulindahr]

MEA CULPA

The "dog story" appears to be false. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/06/story-kim-jong-un-uncle-fed-dogs-made-up

THe sad thing is that we all believed it -- that's a commentary on the reputation of North Korea.

 

[bankside]

So, has anyone noticed this latest tantrum from the North? The day after agreeing to allow family reunification visits, the North threatens to rip up the agreement due to the military exercises between South Korea and the United States. Ridiculous charade...

rareboy

Do you believe that if Kims kill each other there will be democracy for the people? Their will be anarchy.

And anarchy leads to the new tyrrany.

The only way for a post-communist country in Asia is the way of China.

Strong and autocratic party makes capitalism and other reforms. But only the strong power. As in China.

This semi-authoritarian approach is the way the modern economy developed in the UK. The government pushed education for everyone and began economic reforms before the vote was widespread or even that those who could vote really had a say. You have to teach people how to run a democracy and a modern economy.

 

[Benvolio]

So, has anyone noticed this latest tantrum from the North? The day after agreeing to allow family reunification visits, the North threatens to rip up the agreement due to the military exercises between South Korea and the United States. Ridiculous charade...



This semi-authoritarian approach is the way the modern economy developed in the UK. The government pushed education for everyone and began economic reforms before the vote was widespread or even that those who could vote really had a say. You have to teach people how to run a democracy and a modern economy.

From early times the Lords and gentry had the Parliament. After the Industrial Revolution, the newly wealthy capitalists were able to demand a voice in parliament. As the middle class developed the vote was extended further. The vote followed the wealth.
China is no democracy and may never be.
The both Taiwan and South Korea went through periods of democracy in form but dictatorship in fact before becoming actual democracies. Russia seems to following that pattern.
I think Kim is such a tyrant that those around him may depose him, perhaps within a year or two. Then I would not be surprised if the deposers seek union with a South Korea. When Stalin and Ceaucescu died they were hated by the people closest to them, who were not eager to see a new dictator. The people close to Kim must be wondering how secure they are. They are, I suspect, damn tired of the Kims.

 

[bankside]

China is becoming wealthy; I think the vote will follow, much along the lines of the progression in the UK.

I think it's good that North Korea would have the South to be absorbed into. At first glance this seems like how West Germany could help get the East on its feet after communism. But North Korea is so far behind, I don't know if it can play out in the same way.

 

[Alnitak]

China is becoming wealthy; I think the vote will follow, much along the lines of the progression in the UK.

A number of Chinese people I have come across as very defensive of their authoritarian government and mixed economy, and who can blame them with all of this eye popping growth. Mexico, Brazil, and Nigeria are also booming.

 

[bankside]

I actually agree that stability - avoiding discontinuity - is more important in China than diverse political opinion right now. The great risk is carrying that too far for too long, as it will surely lead to stagnation and the entrenchment of an oligarchy based on concentrated capital ownership rather than ideology. But then politics in China is now about economic growth, not authority for the sake of authority. In North Korea, that is not even within reach. The only growth that matters to the North Korean dictator is that of his own accounts. Indeed a gruelling level of general impoverishment probably suits his purposes.

I recall thinking that about Gore when he was elected President but declined to call for revolution or stage a coup to preserve his right: the consequence of failing is not death or personal impoverishment or exile or political obliteration. The consequence was early retirement to a profitable speaking circuit and comfortable personal circumstances, and the freedom and means to continue railing against the government. I often think political transition would be easier in these backwaters if the consequences weren't so stark.

But is there really any chance of change in North Korea without a violent coup?

I think it's clear China doesn't know what to do in its foreign policy. I'd help them out. Right now their biggest concern is instability in North Korea. Therefore the US should abandon South Korea. The Chinese would not be able to tolerate any instability in South Korea, and suddenly this would become the most urgent priority of China. They would be forced to step in to extinguish the North Korean regime, which would probably begin collapsing spontaneously at that point anyway. There would be no available pretext of using North Korea as a buffer against "American Imperialism." The Koreas would be reunited, and although the US would have left the area militarily, there will be no undue strategic advantage for the Chinese: they will not be able to impose the regime of their choice on a united Korea, and the resulting country will owe no special loyalty to the Chinese, nor will its interests really shift from what they are now.

 

[xbuzzerx]

I think it's clear China doesn't know what to do in its foreign policy. I'd help them out. Right now their biggest concern is instability in North Korea. Therefore the US should abandon South Korea. The Chinese would not be able to tolerate any instability in South Korea, and suddenly this would become the most urgent priority of China. They would be forced to step in to extinguish the North Korean regime, which would probably begin collapsing spontaneously at that point anyway. There would be no available pretext of using North Korea as a buffer against "American Imperialism." The Koreas would be reunited, and although the US would have left the area militarily, there will be no undue strategic advantage for the Chinese: they will not be able to impose the regime of their choice on a united Korea, and the resulting country will owe no special loyalty to the Chinese, nor will its interests really shift from what they are now.

I'm not even sure there's words to express how much this idea horrifies South Koreans.

 

[bankside]

I'm not even sure there's words to express how much this idea horrifies South Koreans.

Well it seems to me that China is probably capable of getting rid of North Korea using conventional tactics and not much fuss, but that they don't do this because it's not in their interests. They know it would just reduce whatever scope of influence they do have in the Korean peninsula. Given the human cost of this policy, I don't know why South Korean allies prop it up, for the sake of giving China a bit of influence in a tawdry little hellhole. China talks about its rights to a sphere of influence and security: they need to make a bit of an effort now. If they can't put North Korea solidly on the same track to development seen in China within 5 years, say (btw, a path that would also lead to reunification), then they need to dispose of the Northern regime and hurry things along.