Note : Why Homosexuality is not a Mutation Flaw

[jetsonboy]

It's not a mystery to me. I have been a thriving, happy homosexual since I can remember; proud, healthy and happy. Why can't we just stop the scientific pondering and ethical debate and just live our lives?

 

[Lube]

It's not a mystery to me. I have been a thriving, happy homosexual since I can remember; proud, healthy and happy. Why can't we just stop the scientific pondering and ethical debate and just live our lives?

Because of the politically charged atmosphere, at least in the US.

I understand where you're coming from, but ignoring the issues doesn't make them go away.

 

[3nipples]

You're reasoning is flawed. Gays have been forced to live in the closet and marry and therefore produce offspring so that could explain the neverending supply.

 

[doctorsun]

I've always liked to think that, instead of being a evolutionary mistake that will be weeded out, homosexuality evolved out of a need to control populations.

 

[NongreasySweatproof]

One hypothesis I have come across is that IF homosexuality in men is caused by a gene or by genes, that gene might confer some kind of reproductive advantage on the women who carry it. That's one way in which such a gene would be able to survive over time: the men that get it reproduce less on average; the women reproduce more on average.

Homosexuality in females could have an entirely different cause (genetic or otherwise).

 

[Lucianus]

Mutations can be weeded out, but that does not mean that they won't happen again. They are little typos in you genetic material that happen randomly. It could just be a very common mutation that doesn't have any bad side effects, it only decreases the likely hood that you might produce offspring and pass on your specific mutation. (hence the infinite variability that is human sexuality) It doesn't mean that if you don't pass on your genes gayness is weeded out of a population. Its just a lot more common than having six toes or a tail or something like that. The parents don't pass that down, it happens because something in your DNA just got a little funky.

 

[beafous]

You're reasoning is flawed. Gays have been forced to live in the closet and marry and therefore produce offspring so that could explain the neverending supply.

I think that "gay" is not genetic. by that logic, our parents would be gay and it would die out within the next few generations, because the more out people there were, then the less children would be born from gay genes.
I think, from what I've seen, being gay is more as a result of conditioning. Homosexuality is NOT an evolutionary step. We don't know as much as we would like on human sexuality, so some of you may find that comment controversial, but I think that to be true.

 

[lunarus]

I think that "gay" is not genetic. by that logic, our parents would be gay and it would die out within the next few generations, because the more out people there were, then the less children would be born from gay genes.
I think, from what I've seen, being gay is more as a result of conditioning. Homosexuality is NOT an evolutionary step. We don't know as much as we would like on human sexuality, so some of you may find that comment controversial, but I think that to be true.

To this I say be straight and live that way for the rest of your natural life, with nary a thought of another man in any way.

I feel sorry for those of you out there that believe this bunk because it is you the Christian coalition prey on.

You can no more stop being gay as you can spontaneously develop a vagina.

It just saddens me to see all the self loathing on the boards of late, this use to be a fun place were being gay was not a mutation or a dirty little problem that needs to be fixed.




My advice for all of you that do not like being gay or in some way find it a horrendous problem, then don't. Go marry some woman have a gaggle of children and leave the gay community for ever. Never look back. There are a lot of u here that welcome you with open arms and tell you all time and time again that you are not alone and we understand and further more we are here for you. Yet that does not seem to matter.

Ignorance and blind hatred is a true conditioned response. Being gay is not and ever will be a conditioning.

Sorry if this offends some here but t needs to be said and if I get in trouble for it then so be, I am just tires of all these threads of...well self hatred...


Oh and being born with out arms is a genetic mutation. Having a heart defect is a genetic mutation, so forth and so on. Being born gay IS NOT!

 

[Lube]

To this I say be straight and live that way for the rest of your natural life, with nary a thought of another man in any way.

I feel sorry for those of you out there that believe this bunk because it is you the Christian coalition prey on.

You can no more stop being gay as you can spontaneously develop a vagina.

It just saddens me to see all the self loathing on the boards of late, this use to be a fun place were being gay was not a mutation or a dirty little problem that needs to be fixed.




My advice for all of you that do not like being gay or in some way find it a horrendous problem, then don't. Go marry some woman have a gaggle of children and leave the gay community for ever. Never look back. There are a lot of u here that welcome you with open arms and tell you all time and time again that you are not alone and we understand and further more we are here for you. Yet that does not seem to matter.

Ignorance and blind hatred is a true conditioned response. Being gay is not and ever will be a conditioning.

Sorry if this offends some here but t needs to be said and if I get in trouble for it then so be, I am just tires of all these threads of...well self hatred...


Oh and being born with out arms is a genetic mutation. Having a heart defect is a genetic mutation, so forth and so on. Being born gay IS NOT!

I totally agreed with everything you were saying until that last paragraph. I think I know what you're saying (gayness isn't a mutation in the sense that a mutation is a defect), but technically/scientifically it is a 'mutation' in the sense that the gene(s) are different from the most common case (assuming of course that gayness is at least partially genetic).

 

[lunarus]

I totally agreed with everything you were saying until that last paragraph. I think I know what you're saying (gayness isn't a mutation in the sense that a mutation is a defect), but technically/scientifically it is a 'mutation' in the sense that the gene(s) are different from the most common case (assuming of course that gayness is at least partially genetic).

Yea you're right I didn't clarify that point (just a little peeved.) As in a mutation in a bad way, not a mutation when we become immune to some disease.

 

[Simba]

To this I say be straight and live that way for the rest of your natural life, with nary a thought of another man in any way.

I feel sorry for those of you out there that believe this bunk because it is you the Christian coalition prey on.

You can no more stop being gay as you can spontaneously develop a vagina.

It just saddens me to see all the self loathing on the boards of late, this use to be a fun place were being gay was not a mutation or a dirty little problem that needs to be fixed.




My advice for all of you that do not like being gay or in some way find it a horrendous problem, then don't. Go marry some woman have a gaggle of children and leave the gay community for ever. Never look back. There are a lot of u here that welcome you with open arms and tell you all time and time again that you are not alone and we understand and further more we are here for you. Yet that does not seem to matter.

Ignorance and blind hatred is a true conditioned response. Being gay is not and ever will be a conditioning.

Sorry if this offends some here but t needs to be said and if I get in trouble for it then so be, I am just tires of all these threads of...well self hatred...


Oh and being born with out arms is a genetic mutation. Having a heart defect is a genetic mutation, so forth and so on. Being born gay IS NOT!

While I understand what you are saying, and those of us who have come to that place better understand it than others might. It is important to understand that people must do what they have to do at their own pace. Telling someone they are great and OK means little if that person does not feel it and they are not there.

The best way to show someone you care and that you understand, is to actually demonstrate it, not by telling them if they cant deal with it then leave. Even with as out as I am, and as happy as I am, there are times I feel less than accepted, less than a man and fight within myself with these feelings. I know all the words, I know all the logic and yet I admit that I am not always happy about being gay. Should I too turn in my Gay Membership card and walk way? I think not.

 

[lunarus]

While I understand what you are saying, and those of us who have come to that place better understand it than others might. It is important to understand that people must do what they have to do at their own pace. Telling someone they are great and OK means little if that person does not feel it and they are not there.

The best way to show someone you care and that you understand, is to actually demonstrate it, not by telling them if they cant deal with it then leave. Even with as out as I am, and as happy as I am, there are times I feel less than accepted, less than a man and fight within myself with these feelings. I know all the words, I know all the logic and yet I admit that I am not always happy about being gay. Should I too turn in my Gay Membership card and walk way? I think not.

There is a difference, I can be supportive and help you with better understanding yourself and being gay. I guess I am just tired of all the lies and half truths when it surrounds being gay, especially when it comes from one in our own community. ANd there is a big difference between having a bad gay day and self loathing.

 

[blackbeltninja]

It's not about self-loathing. It's about being confused by response to stimulus.


Should we start a genetics thread to explain to people how genes and DNA recombination work? These guys who say if it's genetic our parents would be gay are perhaps not as schooled in the mysteries of mitosis and meiosis and can't fathom how parental DNA is different to the DNA which ends up in a sperm or egg. We could perhaps also throw in some epidemiological statistic data to prove a point here and there too.

Believe it or not, every one of the two hundred million-odd sperm you pump out every time you nut is different. Sometimes the differences are big, sometimes not.

-d-

 

[aussieduo]

It is my firm belief that being gay is a matrilinial genetic inheritence. I know of many families that have more than 1 gay person, and all seem to be related through the mother, and her sisters. I have several gay cousins, all related through their mothers. My partner also has some gay relations, all related in much the same way. Things like this are not uncommon, take Haemophilia as an example, it can only be passed on by the mother. Mitochondrial DNA is another example, it is passed on by the mother. Think about it, and see if any of you know of other families that are similar.

 

[blooeyz]

I'm sure the primary catalyst for sexual preference is genetic predisposition.
I think there is an evolutionary reason for it, because there are too many occurances to be happenstance. But who knows what that is? I've read so many hypotheses that I don't know which are more correct than the others. I have a feeling it's alittle bit of a lot of things.
We can't discount enviromental factors both in utero and childhood or our relationships with authority figures during key psychosocial developmental phases.
I once read that a huge proportion of lesbians were sexually abused as children.
Would things be better or worse with out the guidelines of social morays? Probably not, because that same social fabric keeps us from killing each other in the heat of the moment.

I think other animals participate, because it feels good. Then it becomes a Pavlovian response.

 

[beafous]

Sorry, I was so long for a reply, but I am just back from vacation and I see that there are (as I assumed there would be) some replies to my post. I would just like to clarify that, despite what Lunarus has said, I have never said anywhere in my post that one can choose their sexuality. You cannot flip-flop between sexual preference and when I mentioned conditioning, this is a different thing. I don't know why my message was taken out of context.

 

[mike_n_herrin]

...Now, since gay people are less likely to produce offspring, if gayness was a mutation it should have disappeared out long long ago. It's continious reoccurance suggests otherwise...

there are a number of mutations and various genetic disorders that are terribly common and occur over and over and over even without the individual that has the mutation reproducing.

downes syndrom comes to mine. many mutations are leathal and the fetus might not even make it to term let alone reproduce. Just because a trait is common doens't mean it's not a mutation.

i'm not saying it IS or ISN'T a mutation, i'm just pointing out how a mutation could keep reappearing even it if's not passed to subsequent generations through reproduction.


as for the other stuff....i think it is probably logical that, similar to other personality traits, gayness or straightness can probably be the result of many factors. If it were strictly genetic ALL the time and in ALL cases, then most of the situations where we have identical twins both would either be straight or both would be gay. they might not have the same taste for men, but they'd both like men. since that isn't the case, then it should follow that in SOME cases its not only based on genetics. I think there is room for both theories that it can be genetic and that it can be behavioral.

 

[mike_n_herrin]

opps forgot to add this bit...

as for if it is a "bad" mutation or not...well from the gene's point of view it's a bad mutation if it keeps you (the gene in this case) from passing along it's genetic material.

 

[blackbeltninja]

^I thought Down Syndrome was trisomy - 3 copies of Chr#21 instead of the usual 2.

-d-