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Obama, DOMA and you...

Why don't they just round up all the gays and lesbians and throw them into prison camps the way they did the Japanese citizens in World War II and be done with it? Then they can get back to the business of getting prayer back in the schools.
 
I'm probably going to get flammed majorly for this...But... Do we really need to use the term "marriage". Can't civil unions be good enough? Its just a word! I want to have the same rights as a straight married couple, but I don't need a WORD to define me. In my heart I know I am married to someone, even though legally I am not.

As long as I have the rights I'm entitled too, whatever name its called is really unimportant
 
I'm a democrat, always have been and will be. For all the things Obama has done right, he NEVER will be an ally of ours. He said before the elections he was against gay marriage, why are people so shocked he's defending this piece of crap legislation? One of the reasons I didn't vote, Obama simply used us to get votes, nothing more.
 
techboywi said:
I'm probably going to get flammed majorly for this...But... Do we really need to use the term "marriage". Can't civil unions be good enough? Its just a word!
Click to expand...

Yes, 'marriage' is just a word, but being denied the privilege if marriage makes you different from those who can marry. Not being able to 'marry' makes you unequal.

A 'civil union' is a compromise. Either you're equal or you're not.
 
gsdx said:
Yes, 'marriage' is just a word, but being denied the privilege if marriage makes you different from those who can marry. Not being able to 'marry' makes you unequal.

A 'civil union' is a compromise. Either you're equal or you're not.
Click to expand...

I see your point.. But, I really don't see the difference still. Civil Unions afford couple the exact same legal rights as str8 married couples, just without the label of marriage. I guess, yeah, it is a compromise. But, to be honest, big parts of this country are far too conservative to ever let that happen. I'd be perfectly fine with a civil union.
 
techboywi said:
I see your point.. But, I really don't see the difference still. Civil Unions afford couple the exact same legal rights as str8 married couples, just without the label of marriage.
Click to expand...

That was the biggest argument up here in Canada when we went through this. Fortunately, we had a prime minister who insisted that there could be no equality for the gay Canadians if they couldn't do everything the straight Canadians could do. That prime minister was a devout Catholic as well, and he stood up to both Bush and the Pope to do what he felt best for Canada.

The biggest sticking point was the fact that the churches feared being forced to perform the ceremonies. When they understood that it was voluntary for individual churches and individual clergy, the arguments ended.

It's been almost 4 years now and the country hasn't collapsed or fallen into moral turpitude. We're doing just fine.
 
Transpogue said:
I'm beyond speechless on this.

Utterly, utterly disappointed.

Nice about face there, Obama.

Fuck.
Click to expand...

sorry to piss on Obama supporters' parades......BUT.... did people actually believe Obama was any different than all other politicians?

oh, really?

ALL politicians LIE .... that's THE RULE .... tell the voters anything you can to be elected .... then....PISS ON THEM

anyone who thought differently and voted for him because he was "different" were FOOLS

he's feeding you the bullshit and you're thinking it's caviar ...

and NO .... i'm not a republican defender ... just pointing out the obvious dupe his acolyutes were given....poor fools

same old shit ... different color ... different smell
 
I still think this is a change that needs to be effected from the bottom up, rather than from the top down.

...and perhaps seeds have been planted to do just that. One might read this as saying "You don't like the law? YOU fucking change it." And hopefully, we'll all say "OK - we will."

Lex
 
DMWN said:
I totally agree. I think the overemphasis on the word "marriage" is basically what hinders progress. I'm 110% fine with civil unions -- so long as they come with the same 1000 legal perks and privledges that do with marriage.

The problem here is that this, for too many people, isn't really about same sex couples being able to file a joint tax return like opposite sex married couples can. This is instead about feeling socially validated. More an honor thing than anything else. Too many gay people are more concerned with leveraging the term "marriage" as a plotpoint social acknowledgment...and really care more about that they do actually do about obtaining those technical perks that married couples have. Which IMO is petty. It's like a 7 year old whining because the slice of cake his mom cut him isn't exactly the same size of the piece his brother got, and swearing it's some kind of conspiracy.

Just give me the legal benefits, I couldn't care less about what it's called.
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So because YOU don't care what it's called, anyone who does care is a whining 7 year old?

:bs:
 
>>>So we elect somebody who says they will work with us to change the laws...

Hey, there's an obstacle in our way. Should we pack it in and go home?

Lex
 
DMWN said:
I totally agree. I think the overemphasis on the word "marriage" is basically what hinders progress. I'm 110% fine with civil unions -- so long as they come with the same 1000 legal perks and privledges that do with marriage.

The problem here is that this, for too many people, isn't really about same sex couples being able to file a joint tax return like opposite sex married couples can. This is instead about feeling socially validated. More an honor thing than anything else. Too many gay people are more concerned with leveraging the term "marriage" as a plotpoint social acknowledgment...and really care more about that they do actually do about obtaining those technical perks that married couples have. Which IMO is petty. It's like a 7 year old whining because the slice of cake his mom cut him isn't exactly the same size of the piece his brother got, and swearing it's some kind of conspiracy.

Just give me the legal benefits, I couldn't care less about what it's called.
Click to expand...


I will not settle for anything less than full equality. If they do not allow gay couples to use the word marriage, they should not allow straight couples to use it.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIoj0erp0RQ[/ame]
 
techboywi said:
I'm probably going to get flammed majorly for this...But... Do we really need to use the term "marriage". Can't civil unions be good enough? Its just a word! I want to have the same rights as a straight married couple, but I don't need a WORD to define me. In my heart I know I am married to someone, even though legally I am not.
As long as I have the rights I'm entitled too, whatever name its called is really unimportant
Click to expand...

Not picking just pointing. If you know in your mind and felt in your heart that what you have is marriage, why would you want to call it anything else? If the issue was only about the rights, we would be fighting for civil unions only. IMO, the issue is way more than that. It's about being socially accepted by a majority and having the legal protections and rights afforded to us by the Constitution. Isn't it about time we have that?
 
IRuleU said:
I agree with techboywi and DMWN. I just want the legal advantages that come with marriage, call it whatever. I posted this in another thread. No one answered...

Or better yet, what if heterosexuals by and large started getting Civil Unions, and embracing THAT term...and not identifying their domestic partnerships as marriage? How long would it be before gays suddenly jumped on the Civil Union bangwagon too? Let's be honest, this has much to do with wanting social recognition from straight people as it does about marriage rights. So many of us have a Jan Brady complex and are too desperate for our hetero parents, siblings, friends and most of all our detractors, to conceede OUT LOUD that our relationships are as valid as theirs. Me personally, I don't need the straight couple next to me and my BF on the subway to look at us as being exactly the same as them. I couldn't care less how they feel about me and my relationship. Just me the rights that come with the piece of paper. I don't care what color the paper itself is.
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And again, what is wrong with people who might want that social recognition? Just because YOU don't want it, does that mean it's trivial for them to want it? Likening them to a whiny tv character because they want to be seen and treated as equals doesn't make you enlightened or better. It actually just makes you sound like people who say shit like "let them have civil unions if it'll shut em up and keep them away from marriage."

It's not selfish or foolish for a group of people to want to be treated equally in every way. It IS selfish to just look after your own desire and benefit from the struggles of others while thumbing your nose at them.
 
IRuleU said:
I agree with techboywi and DMWN. I just want the legal advantages that come with marriage, call it whatever. I posted this in another thread. No one answered...

Or better yet, what if heterosexuals by and large started getting Civil Unions, and embracing THAT term...and not identifying their domestic partnerships as marriage? How long would it be before gays suddenly jumped on the Civil Union bangwagon too? Let's be honest, this has much to do with wanting social recognition from straight people as it does about marriage rights. So many of us have a Jan Brady complex and are too desperate for our hetero parents, siblings, friends and most of all our detractors, to conceede OUT LOUD that our relationships are as valid as theirs. Me personally, I don't need the straight couple next to me and my BF on the subway to look at us as being exactly the same as them. I couldn't care less how they feel about me and my relationship. Just me the rights that come with the piece of paper. I don't care what color the paper itself is.
Click to expand...


I admire your confidence. I wouldn't want that straight couple on the subway sitting next to you to think of you as being the same as them. But I would want them to respect the fact that you are different. You are human and deserve to be treated as such.

As for all the naming of this "sacred union," who knows? If straights renamed their unions, gays should too. The issue is that straight people need to stop judging us by thinking that the love they feel for a signifigant other is somehow greater than ours by definition of them just being who they are. I'm going to stop ranting now.
 
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