Obama pressures Israel -- will they respond like an ally?

[Kulindahr]

...what all sides think they deserve based on any kind of historical/religious basis is absolutely drop-dead irrelevant. What matters is what will contribute to a long term prosperous and peaceful solution for these two large nations to live so close together. Neither one is going anywhere.

"Large"?

Israel has about as many people as Maryland....

 

[Kulindahr]

Maybe if they love their children as much as they hate Israel, than peace will come.

I don't know if you saw it, but there was a TV program about peace between Israel and its enemies, and those words are exactly what a Palestinian mother said: "When we love our children as much as we hate the Israelis, peace will come."

 

[Kulindahr]

I would only add that the use of the term "Zionist" by some in this thread is beyond petty. It's pejorative term that frankly is on-par with n!gger in my mind. Those who use it do so as a hammer to leverage control in the debate.

The Palestinians have become what Boortz calls "cannon fodder" for the Arabs in their war against Israel. Which is sad. Yet, I have no respect for them or the Arabs in this war, period. Statehood was offered and rejected. Israel should simply destroy those within their borders and be done with it but they won't for obvious political reasons. And so this debate will wage until those who stand to defend Israel no longer do. This perpetual negotiation is ludicrous. I side with Israel because they've tried time and again to make peace. We've never seen concessions from the other side. Only more bombing.

Erk -- "destroy those within their borders"????

Most of the Arabs and others within Israel's borders are happy to be there.

But since you're being out-there in your proposals:

Israel should pay prices that can't be refused to the residents of Gaza, to buy the whole place, and the U.S. should pay Egypt to build nice new communities for the Gazans -- then Israel can have Gaza, and that source of insanity will be done with.

Meanwhile, the IDF should round up all the unauthorized settlers and put them to dismantling Gaza (once the Gazans are gone) by hand.


Stay tuned for more.

 

[naked gent]

Offers of statehood were made under Bush. They responded by electing terrorists as a government.

Pardon me but the only serious offer would be that which comes from the israeli government which can deliver on an agreement not the american government which might not be able to deliver.

BTW Hamas received less than 30% of the vote in 06 although they did get the most votes of the various parties which ran. Do you really want to kill the 70% who voted against them?

You lob missiles into my country and I respond by killing you....not murder.

Thats why I asked what you meant by 'within their borders'......no missiles are lobbed into israel from within their borders.

Ummm...personal much? Seriously. You have no idea who I am.

I'm not saying I do, I'm only commenting on what you said.......and an accurate comment it was.

 

[naked gent]

"There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist." - Golda Meir

Sunday Times, June 15, 1969

BD I'm not sure what the point is here but if we play it out as Golda says we should where does that get us?

Since there never was Palestine does that mean that the arabs living there are to be incorporated into Israel, which the israelis clearly do not want, or does it mean they will be forced into another country which does not want them either?

And how exactly does one country force people into a country which clearly does not want them? (the fact that the camps still exist in those countries is good evidence that they have no intention of incorporating the palestinians into their countries)

In today's world her 1969 comment is a moot point.

 

[Kulindahr]

"There were no such thing as Palestinians. When was there an independent Palestinian people with a Palestinian state? It was either southern Syria before the First World War, and then it was a Palestine including Jordan. It was not as though there was a Palestinian people in Palestine considering itself as a Palestinian people and we came and threw them out and took their country away from them. They did not exist." - Golda Meir

Sunday Times, June 15, 1969

People like to rewrite history. It is good to know the truth.

I've read and heard many people say U.N./Israel stole the Palestinians' land.

Yes, it's good to know the truth, and Golda was right as far as that goes.

But "U.N./Israel stole the Palestinians' land" is also true, in a way; the people whose land was assigned to Israel by the U.N. fall into the category now labeled "Palestinian".

I'm reasonably confident that this isn't the first time in history that the identity of a people has been forged out of rejection by those around them -- and I refer not just to Israel, but to the surrounding Arab states, who as fellow Arabs and fellow Muslims ought to have been expected to have welcomed the displaced. Had they done so, a lot of the trouble wouldn't exist, because many, if not most, of those professional refugees would be living in other countries. Of course, the Arab politicians, in their hatred of Israel, treated those refugees not as brother Muslims, not as fellow Arabs, not even as human beings; no, they treated them as pawns in a game meant to keep the pressure on Israel... permanently.

Any real peace there is going to have to include an admission of complicity by all the government who have refused to welcome refugees, along with a guarantee that they will immediately reverse that -- in fact, that would be a good step toward peace.

 

[naked gent]

but to the surrounding Arab states, who as fellow Arabs and fellow Muslims ought to have been expected to have welcomed the displaced. Had they done so, a lot of the trouble wouldn't exist, because many, if not most, of those professional refugees would be living in other countries. Of course, the Arab politicians, in their hatred of Israel, treated those refugees not as brother Muslims, not as fellow Arabs, not even as human beings; no, they treated them as pawns in a game meant to keep the pressure on Israel... permanently.

I agree with you Kuli up to a point. The muslims who were streaming out of India after partition were welcomed into Pakistan so we never hear of any 'right of return' nonsense which the arab governments like to bring up when it comes to Israel but much of Israel's current problem is not with the Palestinians who left after that partition but with the ones who were conquered in the 67 war which Israel did start. (even if as some at the time believed it was a war of military necessity)

However today if I was one of those Arab governments I would not incorporate those living in the camps into my country because there is nothing Israel would like more than to move the Palestinians currently living on the West bank into adjoining countries and those countries, like South Korea or even the U.S. don't want a bunch of poor immigrants headed in their direction and those camps are a huge obstacle to just such an occurrence.

I'd also point out that its not just arabs who left Israel who are stuck in camps but those who left Iraq when we went in also are living in camps in Syria.

If the arab world was not such a miserable place and were its governments not a corrupt bunch of SOB's perhaps things would be better.......just imagine what a difference it would make for the area had Egypt, starting in 1990, followed India's path toward economic liberalization and success and was now bidding to become a world economic powerhouse instead of the pathetic backwater it is and always has been.