Obama tries to stop execution in Texas of Mexican killer

[JB3]

All serve the Goddess ultimately--if only as compost. Fine with that.

It's the thing where people wish other people (even REALLY BAD people) into eternal torment that freaks me out.

I mean, Osama bin Laden? I'd give him maybe 600,000 years. Sure. But a) that's not eternity and b) this guy wasn't OBL, not by a long shot.

And yet he still raped and murdered a 16 year old girl in cold blood. He got what he deserved.

 

[construct]

All right. I have read the case--both the opinion of the Court and J. Breyer's dissent. It should surprise no one that I agree with the dissent. Once you cut through Breyer's argument from precedent, his pragmatic argument is that since it's been sixteen years since the murder, it's not going to hurt anyone to grant a stay of three months to see how Sen. Leahy does with his bill.

The opinion of the Court, on the other hand, relies on Medellín to support the denial of the stay. The Court argues that since Congress has had three years already to pass legislation implementing the Avena decision, it must not have agreed with that decision or didn't consider the matter very important. (The Avena decision was the ICJ case underlying Pres. Bush's appeal to the Supreme Court in Medellín.)

I'd encourage the rest of you to read the case. It took me 25 mins., and I'm a pretty slow reader. In my opinion, it's not as dense as Medellín (which I linked in an earlier post).

 

[JayHawk]

All serve the Goddess ultimately--if only as compost. Fine with that.

It's the thing where people wish other people (even REALLY BAD people) into eternal torment that freaks me out.

I mean, Osama bin Laden? I'd give him maybe 600,000 years. Sure. But a) that's not eternity and b) this guy wasn't OBL, not by a long shot.

My point is that in reality land the only way people live after they vapor lock is thru the memories other have of them. What do you think the vast majority of memories will be concerning this person?

He will rot in peoples memories and that is the only place. His time is over.

For the record I like Texas Law. Expeditious still isn't expeditious enough as it cost way too much.

I know the bleeding hearts will say 'well what if a innocent man is murdered" Or a complete scumbag who happened to not have committed the crime they put him or her to death over. I believe fully that you put yourself in situations. You choose how your life goes. Do you have to run with crooks, killers and thieves? DO you have to commit crime after crime after crime on the innocent in a society? Is there really anything that actually rehabilitates criminals or is it simply institutionalization. Once in for a good deal of time don't they simply come back because they know nothing else? Recidivism is rampant in our system to the point we don't have enough room for the crooks.

I realize so may will disagree will my points but it is seriously a waste of time for you to try and convince me otherwise. I walked away from the scum of humanity. Anyone can if they choose to do so and not become one with that life. I have zero compassion for those who choose not to walk away and live a straight forward legal life.

 

[construct]

For the record I like Texas Law. Expeditious still isn't expeditious enough as it cost way too much.

I know the bleeding hearts will say 'well what if a innocent man is murdered" Or a complete scumbag who happened to not have committed the crime they put him or her to death over. I believe fully that you put yourself in situations. You choose how your life goes. Do you have to run with crooks, killers and thieves? DO you have to commit crime after crime after crime on the innocent in a society? Is there really anything that actually rehabilitates criminals or is it simply institutionalization. Once in for a good deal of time don't they simply come back because they know nothing else? Recidivism is rampant in our system to the point we don't have enough room for the crooks.

I think you have some misconceptions about Texas law. We do, in fact, try not to put innocent people to death. Try as we might, we sometimes do, but we try not to. We also think it's important to execute people for crimes that they actually committed--well, apart from the law of parties, but I don't think we're talking about that--and not for the crimes that the people they associate with commit. Still, I don't think you could seriously say that Texas is full of a bunch of "bleeding hearts," could you?

And as for overcrowded prisons, if we'd reform our drug laws, we'd have room for the crooks.

 

[chrisrobin]

Leal executed. Congratulations to Texas! *puke*

So much for international law.

 

[construct]

Leal executed. Congratulations to Texas! *puke*

So much for international law.

I suppose you've read Medellîn. Don't you think Congress and perhaps the Supreme Court are also due your congratulations?

 

[JayHawk]

I think you have some misconceptions about Texas law. We do, in fact, try not to put innocent people to death. Try as we might, we sometimes do, but we try not to. We also think it's important to execute people for crimes that they actually committed--well, apart from the law of parties, but I don't think we're talking about that--and not for the crimes that the people they associate with commit. Still, I don't think you could seriously say that Texas is full of a bunch of "bleeding hearts," could you?

And as for overcrowded prisons, if we'd reform our drug laws, we'd have room for the crooks.

No misconception. Bottom line is that a man runs our criminal justice system and bias exist so innocents will inadvertently be put to death regardless of goodwill or intent of the people of a state.

I refer to our general concept of death penalty for and against.

I couldnt agree more with decriminalization. Although often the leadership of drug rings have done many other things illegal that are simply either harder to prove or provide less of a sentence. So it wouldnt empty out our prisons as everyone thinks. People will simply be going up for different reasons.

A meth manufacturer will not go become a construction worker if we legalize meth. there will be some other illicit good and that's where they will migrate.

 

[JB3]

All right. I have read the case--both the opinion of the Court and J. Breyer's dissent. It should surprise no one that I agree with the dissent. Once you cut through Breyer's argument from precedent, his pragmatic argument is that since it's been sixteen years since the murder, it's not going to hurt anyone to grant a stay of three months to see how Sen. Leahy does with his bill.

The opinion of the Court, on the other hand, relies on Medellín to support the denial of the stay. The Court argues that since Congress has had three years already to pass legislation implementing the Avena decision, it must not have agreed with that decision or didn't consider the matter very important. (The Avena decision was the ICJ case underlying Pres. Bush's appeal to the Supreme Court in Medellín.)

I'd encourage the rest of you to read the case. It took me 25 mins., and I'm a pretty slow reader. In my opinion, it's not as dense as Medellín (which I linked in an earlier post).

They have a point. The previous case was 3 years ago and handed to congress on a silver platter the solution to making sure situations like this didn't happen again. And they didn't do anything. I'd say three years was enough; if they couldn't get it done in that time, they're not going to get it done in time to make a difference in this case.

It should also be noted that Leahy has tried, and failed, on two separate occasions to get this bill passed and it never got off the ground. Having that knowledge, I would say that the opinion offered in the dissent is not reasonable. The bill isn't going to get passed, and the majority realized it.

 

[JB3]

Leal executed. Congratulations to Texas! *puke*

So much for international law.

Blame congress. Had they acted we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[NineOfClubs]

Someone beats me to death with a 30 or 40 pound rock, I hope he fries!

Justice has been served.

 

[hotatlboi]

I think you have some misconceptions about Texas law. We do, in fact, try not to put innocent people to death. Try as we might, we sometimes do, but we try not to. We also think it's important to execute people for crimes that they actually committed--well, apart from the law of parties, but I don't think we're talking about that--and not for the crimes that the people they associate with commit. Still, I don't think you could seriously say that Texas is full of a bunch of "bleeding hearts," could you?

And as for overcrowded prisons, if we'd reform our drug laws, we'd have room for the crooks.

Yet another reason it should be abolished imo.

 

[laikaNYC]

Leal executed. Congratulations to Texas! *puke*

So much for international law.

Shame on Texas for executing a murdering rapist!

The poor girl's family finally has closure. The scumbag is no longer breathing.

"I have hurt a lot of people. ... I take full blame for everything. I am sorry for what I did," he said in the death chamber.

 

[evanrick]

The President is in the right on this one. Texas has no business getting the federal government into hot water in international affairs.

Its Texas, they could spark WW3 and not give a damn.

 

[Críostóir]

The poor girl's family finally has closure. The scumbag is no longer breathing.

In fact, studies have shown that the execution of a murderer does not typically bring families any closure or make them any happier. What does work to make them happier is utterly anathema to you and everyone on the right: forgiveness.

Yes, the psychologists have discovered that people who forgive their loved ones' murderers are happier than people who don't. I have to admit I would find this extremely difficult myself, and yeah, it sucks.

But saying that to members of the Torture Party is like writing it on the wind. I don't know why I bother.

 

[hotatlboi]

Shame on Texas for executing a murdering rapist!

Stop making this about whether the perp deserved it. That is not the issue at all.

The issue is the protection of Americans overseas.

This will make it easier for foreign governments to deny due process to Americans arrested in foreign countries.

 

[Críostóir]

Stop making this about whether the victim deserved it. That is not the issue at all.

The issue is the protection of Americans overseas.

This will make it easier for foreign governments to deny due process to Americans arrested in foreign countries.

Just so, but Republicans and Texans do not consider the greater good in any decisions they make. In fact they're ideologically opposed to such consideration.

 

[laikaNYC]

Stop making this about whether the perp deserved it. That is not the issue at all.

The issue is the protection of Americans overseas.

This will make it easier for foreign governments to deny due process to Americans arrested in foreign countries.

I'm pretty certain Americans arrested in foreign countries are intelligent enough to know to contact their embassy.

This was just an 11th-hour plea to try and save his ass. Didn't work.

 

[kallipolis]

I'm pretty certain Americans arrested in foreign countries are intelligent enough to know to contact their embassy.

An American university professor friend now living in Cairo, Egypt has informed me that United States consular assistance, under such circumstances is abysmally indifferent.

He knows, having been arrested several times in Egypt, for being in the wrong place, at the wrong time.

Fortunately for him his relationships with people in high places in the Egyptian academic elite has afforded him a prompt release on each occasion.

 

[Críostóir]

I'm pretty certain Americans arrested in foreign countries are intelligent enough to know to contact their embassy.

This was just an 11th-hour plea to try and save his ass. Didn't work.

Wrong on the first count, irrelevant on the second.

Americans arrested in foreign countries often try to talk their way out of it, or invoke rights that don't exist in those countries. And I don't know why you persist in believing that Americans are more intelligent than anyone else; we're one of the most ignorant countries when it comes to knowledge of other countries' laws.

And the motivation of the individual concerned is not the issue here. I don't think BUSH was worried about saving this guy's ass!

As usual you ignore broader consequences. As I said before, I believe you're ideologically opposed to considering them.

 

[rareboy]

I apologize.

Unreservedly.