ObamaCare creator says Democrats were stupid to accept it.

[Benvolio]

Since you guys only watch the liberal/democrat "news" you are not aware that a series of videos have surfaced in which Jonathan Gruber, an MIT professor, who was paid $400,000 as a consultant in devising obamacare, admits that the American people were intentionally deceived about the plan and the accepted it because the American people are stupid.http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...care-architect-disparaging-voter-intelligence
See also http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/12/obamacares-jonathan-gruber-caught-on-second-tape-c/
Of course he says that the American people were stupid,but obviously he was referring to democrats, since the Republican half of the people were not deceived.
Yeah, I know, liberals are not supposed to listen to conservative stations but this entire scandal has been largely ignored by the liberal/democrat media.

 

[palemale]

As Bismark is often quoted as saying, "laws are like sausages, no one should see them being made." The Affordable Care Act ("ACA") made few people happy. Conservatives are unhappy because they would prefer to see millions of poor and working class people dying or bankrupt from lack of health insurance rather than have the government spend a dime to help them. Progressives are unhappy because of the many, obvious flaws with the legislation. The facts remains, however, that with all its flaws, the ACA made health insurance available to millions of people who did not have it before. Is that such a bad thing?

 

[Benvolio]

This is not another thread about the merits of obamacare. It is about the admissions of Gruber about how the democrats tricked some people into supporting it, and more generally, about the democrat version of democracy.

 

[chrisrobin]

Democrats are stupid. Ben, I thought you already knew that.

 

[mightbe]

No one was tricked, per se. If this be trickery, then the legislative process is a grand exercise in absurdism (though I'm not convinced it isn't). Anyone that read the law and knew what it was about wasn't tricked. Given that many legislators didn't read it, that falls back on them for their own mistake. They had three weeks to have their interns, clerks, secretaries and aides break it down into a digestible read. If they failed to do that, it's on them (I would never suggest for a moment that most congresscritters actually read the ACA themselves).

It actually doesn't matter one way or the other whether the people accept it. Even if they were deceived, it makes no difference. The point is that it's actually doing what it should (not necessarily what the people were told it would do--I agree that the citizenry was malinformed. They should've known just how disgusting a law it is; the total handover of healthcare to insurance companies).

As a general rule the American people are either stupid or apathetic. I'm not sure which is worse, but whichever the worse one is, that's what we are. To be precise, most everyone was deceived in one way or the other. Many Republicans bought into the drivel that it somehow "socialized" healthcare (Ha! If we should be so lucky); many Democrats thought, alternatively, that it didn't go far enough or was just right (mostly the latter). In time, many Democrats have come to see the ACA as something wonderfully good (it's most certainly NOT). However, most people just didn't care enough to look up the law themselves, content to take others' word for it.

If that's deception then a donut sale is force-feeding.

 

[nycguydowntown]

agree with mightbe^^^^From my view--Dems are stupid and rep are morons---sad state of affairs in our country. Stupid for putting forward a rep plan and not single payer---and rep are heartless morons for thinking we don't need health care in the usa, they have good gov health care so fuck it---thousands die from lack of care or no care here but still for all the power the rep party has had in this country for many years---nothing was ever done. I have great health care because I can afford it---hope it's the same for all the moron rep cheerleaders---if not, we can take moron down a few notches to imbecile.

 

[palemale]

This is not another thread about the merits of obamacare. It is about the admissions of Gruber about how the democrats tricked some people into supporting it, and more generally, about the democrat version of democracy.

With false stories of death panels and other Conservative lies, probably lots of people came to realize that the Republicans were crying wolf. Thus, most voters who wanted health care reform refused to believe anything negative about the ACA, since so much anti-Obamacare propaganda was demonstrably false.

 

[Alnitak]

This is not another thread about the merits of obamacare. It is about the admissions of Gruber about how the democrats tricked some people into supporting it, and more generally, about the democrat version of democracy.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[palemale]

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

That's right, Ben. Because if you do, it will clog your arteries and you'll be denied medical care by Obama's death panels. Didn't you listen to Sarah Palin?

 

[Alnitak]

That's right, Ben. Because if you do, it will clog your arteries and you'll be denied medical care by Obama's death panels. Didn't you listen to Sarah Palin?

Every health insurer exercises discretion on whether to extend life saving treatment. It's true of BCBS. It's true of Medicaid.

 

[frankfrank]

Given that many legislators didn't read it, that falls back on them for their own mistake. They had three weeks to have their interns, clerks, secretaries and aides break it down into a digestible read. If they failed to do that, it's on them

Why don't they ASSIGN - such as a professor would assign in 15th Century Literature 407 - parts of the ACA to people who are part of the Democratic, and Republican, Parties in Congress? Do the political parties each host A GROUP of staffers and advisers who are NOT "tied in with" any specific officeholder in Congress, who can advise the entire Party on various matters? Let's imagine the ACA [Obamacare] has 15 Sections (and Section 11 is the largest)...the Democrats could assign Sections 1-2-3-4 to one person, 5-6-7-8 to another, 9-10-11 to another, and 12-13-14-15 to another. Perhaps they could assign each group of Sections to three people working independently of each other, to assure "second and third opinions" or at least one or two writings of adequate use and quality. The summaries from these interns(?) would be, as I said, similar to book reports - which would be published and circulated to members of Congress? The Republicans would do the same. The Democrats AND the Republicans would be given these "book reports" as generated from the staffs of both Parties, i.e. John Boehner would have received the reports from both sides Democrat and Republican.

In that case, perhaps these people in Congress would be reading a total of 71 pages instead of - what was it - about 2,300?

I assume that nothing like this is done on "the big bills" (such as ACA, omnibus budget bills, the PATRIOT Act, etc.). It would be too sensible.

From my view--Dems are stupid and rep are morons...if not, we can take moron down a few notches to imbecile.

Let's take both of them down...Democrats become imbeciles, Republicans become idiots. Close enough.

 

[Benvolio]

Democrats are stupid. Ben, I thought you already knew that.

I was not saying the democrats are stupid, it was the administration's strategy. As Gruber said, the intentional lack of transparency and the stupidity of the American people who fell for it, were essential to getting it passed.

 

[Benvolio]

Why should we trust people like this to be the dictators of our health care? The regulations even now amount to 19,000 pages. , it is said. And we know that in everything they do the democrats carve out preferences for those who vote democrat at the expense of those who do not. When they allocate jobs to minorities, "to the maximum extent possible", it is only a matter of time until they give minorities a preference in health treatment. Half or more Americans pay no income taxes and soon, they will get entirely free health care at the expense of the tax paying other half. Meanwhile millions more pour into the country and Obama is about to try to give them amnesty and a quick path to voting. How can we doubt that they will all get free health care at taxpayer expense as soon as the democrats can do it?

 

[chrisrobin]

I was not saying the democrats are stupid, it was the administration's strategy. As Gruber said, the intentional lack of transparency and the stupidity of the American people who fell for it, were essential to getting it passed.

Now Americans are stupid. What you need to do is to become president so that you can lead us to the promised land of intelligence and clear thinking - leading by example... your example. The last best hope on earth.

 

[Benvolio]

Now Americans are stupid. What you need to do is to become president so that you can lead us to the promised land of intelligence and clear thinking - leading by example... your example. The last best hope on earth.

It was the administration who called the Americans stupid, not I.

 

[chrisrobin]

It was the administration who called the Americans stupid, not I.

Ben...we need you - now more than ever!

 

[frankfrank]

Why should we trust people like this to be the dictators of our health care? The regulations even now amount to 19,000 pages...

Oops. I guess that we'll need more than four "book reports" for various parts of the ACA, then. Would you believe a crew of 31 people "translating and digesting" the law?

 

[T-Rexx]

...Jonathan Gruber, an MIT professor, who was paid $400,000 as a consultant in devising obamacare, admits that the American people were intentionally deceived about the plan and the accepted it because the American people are stupid.

I'm just curious. Were the people of Massachusetts deliberately deceived by Mitt Romney when he got Romneycare passed there? Or was that okay, since it was done by a Republican?

John Gruber was paid as a consultant by Mitt Romney to assess the economic impact of the plan on the state (he's an economist, not a health insurance architect). Because of his experience with the plan, the Obama administration also asked for his opinion on the economic impact of bringing Romneycare nationwide.

Gruber did exactly the same thing twice. Once for Mitt Romney, and once for president Obama. Why are you not complaining about how Republicans deceived the stupid voters of Massachusetts?

 

[Vitamin]

Now Americans are stupid. What you need to do is to become president so that you can lead us to the promised land of intelligence and clear thinking - leading by example... your example. The last best hope on earth.

And with that, humanity dies out.

 

[evanrick]

Elections have consequences.

The most disgusting people on earth are those who are against giving healthcare to the uninsured. They have no part in rational debate, are soulless repugnant indifferent losers. Those that believe that healthcare is not a human right then should have to live without access to it themselves. Will they take the no healthcare challenge? No, they'll just continue to be the festering leeches of society.

What really should make people pay attention is the fact that those opposing the ACA are also opposing medicaid expansion and the saving of medicare.

People who oppose those who do good things are devil worshipers.

It wasnt the lack of transparency OR trickery that got Obamcare passed, it was the republicans who cant govern and lost all those elections who got it passed. Blame America for being stupid? No, your party is stupid, fool.