Obama's wife says something interesting

[JayHawk]

^Oh I got it, Prmary ingredient in skin color. He is just sayin that Barrack is getting a pass because he is black. I disagree. He is eloquent. Of course Tom Cruise was eloquent but now is insane. I guess msooth doesn't met it out as a criteria for me.

You know it doesn't matter what she is sayin, this race is starting so early all the candidates will have to have some teflon coating cuz the shit is gonna fly and they will all mistep with their commentary. The key to their ability to lead will be how they react not what they say (within reason)

 

[atswimtwoboys]

How about Giuliani's "credentials"?

Well, he's a genius at orgainizing press conferences and photo ops.

 

[White Eagle]

^Oh I got it, Prmary ingredient in skin color. He is just sayin that Barrack is getting a pass because he is black. I disagree. He is eloquent. Of course Tom Cruise was eloquent but now is insane. I guess msooth doesn't met it out as a criteria for me.

You know it doesn't matter what she is sayin, this race is starting so early all the candidates will have to have some teflon coating cuz the shit is gonna fly and they will all mistep with their commentary. The key to their ability to lead will be how they react not what they say (within reason)

Again I can agree with you. I don't see it as racist. It is too early to make any decisions about anything, and Rudy's girlfriend? Too funny.

 

[OtterJoq]

I guess msooth doesn't met it out as a criteria for me.

Hmmm...I recognize some of these words as being English, but...

 

[radical matt]

Hm...well, it strikes me as an un-PC, racial, and somewhat narrow-minded comment...and for that reason, I must commend her. I'm sure she wasn't trying to make such a statement, but I personally cannot stand people that will be PC first and think for themselves second.

Her statement is racist. For those of you that can't see it, I've gotta just shake my head. I doubt that she was refering to graphs and statistics, more likely she was basing what she said from personal opinion and experience of herself and people she knows. That is to say, narrow-minded, as it is based from a very narrow viewpoint from her part of society and not the whole spectrum of society.

It was NOT PC. Saing the "black man" instead of "African American male" is not PC. Again, I can't stand political correctness, and while I endevour to be polite to people all the time, I take a perverse pleasure in being politically inccorect when I get a chance to do so. And while she probably was not doing that, I still have to commend her for it.


So yeah, non-PC, and racially charged, but perfectly okay by me. This woman may be a racist, and she may believe in reparations or that other people and society owe her and other black people something simply because they are black...but I'm good with that. At least I can look at this woman and say she's an honest woman and I can know where she stands if I was to ask her. To me, that's worth a lot more than a non-racest, perfectly PC person (who can't be honest or genuine) ever will be.


Btw, is it just me, or are people that are PC with respect to African Americans, but seem to enjoy throwing around the word "redneck" and perpetrating southern stereotypes hypocrites and holders of double standards? Maybe it's just me...

 

[Lostlover]

Considering Obama's wife has her JD from Harvard Law school, I can imagine that she is well aware of how to pick her words.

I don't think she meant anything racist by the statement.

 

[radical matt]

I'm sure she probably didn't. Most people that make racist statements don't see them as racist. Same with people that make steriotypical statements, or statements of biggotry.

It was still a racist statement. She didn't say it as a scientist refering to facts; "Statistically, my husband, due to his skin color...", she said it as an off the cuff remark. After all, Bush called Obama "articulate", a word having nothing to do with race at all, and has been attacked for being racist because of it. The statement by Mrs. Obama actually involved the invoaction of race, and it was a racist statement. A true one, and one from her own mind (you can bet that Obama's PR people did NOT tell her to say that ^_^), and for that reason I like it, but it's still a racist statement. And I'm okay with that.

 

[chance1]

Well, let me just put it to you this way.

(I'm white) The only time in my 16 years of driving that I've had a cop actually threaten me (as well as get very rude and nasty) was when I got pulled over with a black passenger in my car. And as it turned out, the fact that my passenger was black was the reason I was stopped in the first place.

I don't think her statement was unreasonable.

now that's a scientific survey - LOL

 

[radical matt]

Again, I'm not saying that she wasn't saying a true statement. I'm just saying it was also a racist one. Sometimes, racist things happen to be true, just like every stereotype starts with some element of truth, and how almost all lies and even fiction/legend has some element of truth to it. And if it's not clear, I'm complementing her, encouraged that she has her own mind and wasn't being directed/told what to say by someone else. She just happened to say something racist. ^_^ And that's perfectly alright. ^_^

 

[khushibagh]

I would have interpreted her statement as saying that "As a black man, Barack has a much greater liklihood of being mistakenly shot while minding his own business by trigger happy cops and store-owners who get antsy when they see black folks in places they don't expect and shoot first and ask questions later". If that is what she meant, it is a sad but true statement about our society and I don't see what's wrong with it.

While it is true that African-Americans are statistically more likely to be victims of homicide (and usually at the hands of other African-Americans) that is largely because African-Americans generally live in more dangerous neighborhoods. I doubt that Obama is more likely to be a victim of random crime than a similarly situated white person because of his race. OTOH, I suspect that he is more likely to be a victim of racial profiling and some of those stops have a way of degenerating into violence as was the case with the black/hispanic students who got shot on the Jersey turnpike a couple of years ago by state troopers.

 

[chance1]

I would have interpreted her statement as saying that "As a black man, Barack has a much greater liklihood of being mistakenly shot while minding his own business by trigger happy cops and store-owners who get antsy when they see black folks in places they don't expect and shoot first and ask questions later". If that is what she meant, it is a sad but true statement about our society and I don't see what's wrong with it.

While it is true that African-Americans are statistically more likely to be victims of homicide (and usually at the hands of other African-Americans) that is largely because African-Americans generally live in more dangerous neighborhoods. I doubt that Obama is more likely to be a victim of random crime than a similarly situated white person because of his race. OTOH, I suspect that he is more likely to be a victim of racial profiling and some of those stops have a way of degenerating into violence as was the case with the black/hispanic students who got shot on the Jersey turnpike a couple of years ago by state troopers.

I agree - that is probably what she meant

still a hot potato in my opinion

 

[Nishin]

Any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races,” that there is a causal link between inherited physical traits and traits of personality, intellect, morality, and other cultural behavioral features, and that some “races” are innately superior to others.

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9376359

Nothing in her statement indicates that she believes in the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races,”

Her statement doesn't indicate there nature of the link between ethnicity and the object of the statement, I believe such link not to be causal, but statistical.

Therefore, nothing here allows me to analyze her statement, or her person, of being of a racist nature.

Note that the first part of the definition makes most english speakers racists per se, by their use of the word "race" to define human ethnicities.

 

[DiaryOfAMadman]

Excuse me?

Josef's post was 100% correct. Obama is the "token black" of the Democratic Party. Just in the same light as Powell was the "token black" of the Republican party back in 2000. The two major parties love nothing more then an eloquent young black man, to throw fake support behind. It's all about how they look in the media and it's a poor attempt at being PC.

Well, he's a genius at orgainizing press conferences and photo ops.

Rudy's best asset going into this campaign is the fact that he's the ultimate self promoter. I honestly thing he's better at it then both Donald Trump and Ron Popeill. I remember his re-election campaign for mayor consisted of nearly no add's do to all the free coverage he would be able to get himself at photo ops and press confrences.

Hm...well, it strikes me as an un-PC, racial, and somewhat narrow-minded comment...and for that reason, I must commend her. I'm sure she wasn't trying to make such a statement, but I personally cannot stand people that will be PC first and think for themselves second.

Her statement is racist. For those of you that can't see it, I've gotta just shake my head. I doubt that she was refering to graphs and statistics, more likely she was basing what she said from personal opinion and experience of herself and people she knows. That is to say, narrow-minded, as it is based from a very narrow viewpoint from her part of society and not the whole spectrum of society.

It was NOT PC. Saing the "black man" instead of "African American male" is not PC. Again, I can't stand political correctness, and while I endevour to be polite to people all the time, I take a perverse pleasure in being politically inccorect when I get a chance to do so. And while she probably was not doing that, I still have to commend her for it.


So yeah, non-PC, and racially charged, but perfectly okay by me. This woman may be a racist, and she may believe in reparations or that other people and society owe her and other black people something simply because they are black...but I'm good with that. At least I can look at this woman and say she's an honest woman and I can know where she stands if I was to ask her. To me, that's worth a lot more than a non-racest, perfectly PC person (who can't be honest or genuine) ever will be.


Btw, is it just me, or are people that are PC with respect to African Americans, but seem to enjoy throwing around the word "redneck" and perpetrating southern stereotypes hypocrites and holders of double standards? Maybe it's just me...

The statement wasn't racist, it was simply stating a fact. If your a black male in the United States, your chance of being murdered are higher then your white counterpart. Never once did she do anything to imply that a white man would try and kill her husband.

African American is much more Un-PC then Black. When saying someone is black your referring to the color of their skin, it has no cultural implications.

There are people who are black that are not from Africa.

There are people from Africa living in the US that are not "African Americans". (Many of who are proud of being African and take offense to African Americans)

Those are the reasons that I use the term black as opposed to African Americans when having discussions about different races. However in general I only see the world as one race: human. And once everyone can accept that, the world will be a much better place.

 

[radical matt]

http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9376359

Nothing in her statement indicates that she believes in the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races,”

Her statement doesn't indicate there nature of the link between ethnicity and the object of the statement, I believe such link not to be causal, but statistical.

Therefore, nothing here allows me to analyze her statement, or her person, of being of a racist nature.

Note that the first part of the definition makes most english speakers racists per se, by their use of the word "race" to define human ethnicities.

I'm not quite sure about that, Nishin. She points out a situation/scenario that indicates a certain worldview which is based on races. She didn't say "as a politician" or "as a man", she pointed out specifically that it was due to his "blackness". This indicates an acknowledgement of race and a view that that race is affected in a way that others are not by a certain situation. And again, it's statistically true...but I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that she was actually thinking about statistics. She may have had friends or family or heard on the news of all the guys getting shot (by police or anyone else), or may have been refering to a neighborhood she once lived in (again, personal worldview), but she wasn't citing statistics. Her worldview is that black people are in some danger of being shot or involved in some crime or another, apparently. It's a racist worldview that just happens to be true, but she isn't a sociologist who was refering to statistics, I don't believe. ^_^

 

[mega]

I just watched the interview. I suppose you can put any words in her mouth that she didn't say that you like. Sort of like reading a fortune cookie and ending it with "in bed". I did like it when she said "We don't make our decisions based on fear."

 

[atswimtwoboys]

/\ /\ /\

Madman,

I wouldn't argue your point that both American political parties have an investment in tokenism. I understood josefjosef to say that Obama could do anything he liked with impunity because he happened to be black. If my understanding is correct, I find that a highly offensive comment.

That fact that a black person can make an everday observation about race in the US, as Obama's wife did (sorry, I don't know her name), and get accused of rascism might illustrate how unfortunately the dialogue in race in the US seems to go sometimes.

And, Madman, thank you for your points on Guiliani. Now there's a pointless politician. He came a while ago to my city, I think at the invitation of our mayor. Mind you, our mayor's main qualification before his election was the fact he built a baseball stadium. When he was re-elected, his big thing was a hog-slaughtering plant he proposed not far from a residential neighbourhood. Maybe he should run for vice-president along with Rudy?

 

[Nishin]

I'm not quite sure about that, Nishin. She points out a situation/scenario that indicates a certain worldview which is based on races. She didn't say "as a politician" or "as a man", she pointed out specifically that it was due to his "blackness". This indicates an acknowledgement of race and a view that that race is affected in a way that others are not by a certain situation. And again, it's statistically true...but I SERIOUSLY DOUBT that she was actually thinking about statistics. She may have had friends or family or heard on the news of all the guys getting shot (by police or anyone else), or may have been refering to a neighborhood she once lived in (again, personal worldview), but she wasn't citing statistics. Her worldview is that black people are in some danger of being shot or involved in some crime or another, apparently. It's a racist worldview that just happens to be true, but she isn't a sociologist who was refering to statistics, I don't believe. ^_^

If you allow me to disagree, I believe you didn't perceive the implications and the frames of mind that definition refers to.

For you to understand what I meant better, I'm asking you to pay particular attention to this:

Any action, practice, or belief that reflects the racial worldview—the ideology that humans are divided into separate and exclusive biological entities called “races,”

Racists believe that humans can be classified into different races, like german shepards and teckels are different races within the same specie.

However, physical traits' diversity and variations exist within every human group and genetic differences between humans are not important enough to apply the concept of races to the human specie.
In example, although differences in physical features are obvious, it is very possibe for a Korean guy living in Korea to be genetically closer to an Italian guy living in Italy than to his Korean neighbour.

Therefore when you say that:

She points out a situation/scenario that indicates a certain worldview which is based on races.

It is false. Nothing she said indicates she believes in the theory of human races.

The fact that she says "black" does not refer to a "race" but to an ethnical and physical feature, this is not the same.
Had she said or indicated that blacks and whites do not belong to the same "race", it would have been a racist comment. She did no such thing.

Making a contextual distinction between a black and a white is nothing racist, cultural and physical differences between human groups/ethnicities are obvious...

Believing there are such thing as "human races" on the other hand is being racist, and when you use the word "race" applied to human groups, you are, de facto, a racist.

Of course, it is not made explicit that she refers to statistics either, but it is to me the most probable interpretation of her statement.

 

[radical matt]

Alright...allow me to put it this way:

If -I- (a young, white male...I have some Native American and possibly even a little African [slave] ancestry, but if you look at my pictures, it's not noticible, so we'll ignore that for now.) If -I- was to go on national television and say that Osama's wife shouldn't worry since at any time, her husband, being a black man, could be shot going to the gas station...do you not think that people all over the nation (at least media types, and probably the NAACP) would be all over me for being a racist?

You're right, Nishin, by the definition, she is not a racist. However, by the popular difinition, that would be a racist statement if a non-black person was to say it, would you not conceed that point? It might not be a racist statement by definition, but it would be construed as one.


And I agree, DiaryOfAMadman, the world would be a better place. I, personally, don't refer to a person's race at all unless pressed to or a situation demands it. Normally, I call people by name and treat them as individuals, judging them as individuals, not as colors, ethnicities, or social groups. I'm not perfect, and sometimes I stay stuff I shouldn't that are overgeneralizations, but I try my best not to. If I see someone on the street or in class or on campus or wherever, I see something that has two eyes, two arms, two legs, a beating heart, a worthwhile soul, a sentient mind, and all the greatness and potential of Humanity. I notice skin color about like I notice tans. They're someone different, but not to be feared or treated differently than anyone else. Different as in they are not me, but they are another human being besides me, and I should treat them as I would any other human being.

...and yeah, the world becomes a slightly better place. ^_^

 

[radical matt]

Haha, too right. I've always been bad with names.

When I was typing that I saw Osama and I was thinking, that doesn't look quite right...but I know that name from somewhere, so that's gotta be it. ^_^; O-B-ama...my appologies. And no Freudian slip, I don't actually consider Osama to be an overly great threat to the US right now (as anything more than a Superman or Captian America larger than life figure for our enemies to rally young men to their cause with)...well, okay, so I don't consider Obama to be blatently dangerous to the US at the moment either. -shrug-

Eh well, another brain glitch on my part. My apologies. ^_^ I didn't actually mean anything by it (I'm not THAT insulting to people...)


Note also that I was refering to "Osama's wife" not "Osama" himself. ^_^ Oh, and the s and b keys aren't that far from each other. Now what's really bad is I sometimes mix p's and b's...and on rare occasion d's with each other, both when typing and writing. I'm not sure why, I've always done that. -shrug-

 

[pisces_ken02]

Nothing but FACTS....

If someone thinks that blacks are not victims of hate crimes you are sadly mistaken. It is still going on at this very MINUTE!!