Obama's YouTube Response to Joe the Plumber

[HenryReardon]

Does a baby beaten to death have the same opportunities as you did?

Right up until the moment of its death, of course.

Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

 

[smelter]

You are also dead wrong in stating that not everyone has the same opportunities. Of course they do. Some people lack whatever it takes to seize those opportunities when presented, or they simply make bad choices.

Our founding documents guarantee equality of opportunity, they do not guarantee equality of outcome.

Hey Henry! .... explain that to the non-white kid who applies to work at most white-owned small businesses in my town (or thousands like it). Tell that to the non-white contractors who compete for work in other than minority neighborhoods. Reality has a way of rearing its ugly head, regardless of how many times you choose to bury yours!

Maybe, just maybe, their bad choice was to be born with the wrong skin color or ethnicity.

 

[naked gent]

The people most affected will be the upper middle class. The owners of small businesses who still provide between 70% and 80% of the jobs in this country. Obama's taxes will penalize them, and they will start automating and cutting back, or moving offshore. In any case, it will be a disaster.

Henry there are various issues which may depend on who wins in November but this tax issue is not one of them. It should to obvious to even the cursory political observer that the democrats will maintain their control of congress and, that being the case, the top tax rate is going up.

The republicans never made the Bush tax cuts permanent (perhaps they knew what kind of deficit busting spendthrifts they would be) so even if McCain wins congress will either do nothing and allow the cuts to expire or send him a bill which raises the top rates while keeping the 15 and 25% rate for the middle class.

Its unlikely McCain would veto such a bill as long as he has in interest in being re-elected.

You can yell about how unfair it all is and you can curse the republican congress for only making the cuts temporary but its all moot.

Obama or McCain.....on this one it don't matter so its inaccurate to call them Obama's taxes.

 

[HenryReardon]

Hey Henry! .... explain that to the non-white kid who applies to work at most white-owned small businesses in my town (or thousands like it). Tell that to the non-white contractors who compete for work in other than minority neighborhoods. Reality has a way of rearing its ugly head, regardless of how many times you choose to bury yours!

Maybe, just maybe, their bad choice was to be born with the wrong skin color or ethnicity.

Oh, please, spare me the racist comments. I know people who are desperate to hire any willing body they can find, no matter what color they are. A family member supervises two or three McDonalds for a local company that owns six stores in the area. They have a hard time finding enough young people willing to work.

Your comment may have been valid thirty years ago, but it won't wash today.

 

[smelter]

Oh, please, spare me the racist comments. I know people who are desperate to hire any willing body they can find, no matter what color they are. A family member supervises two or three McDonalds* for a local company that owns six stores in the area. They have a hard time finding enough young people willing to work.

Your comment may have been valid thirty years ago, but it won't wash today.

.... but Henry, I live in one of Sarah Palin's 'real America' towns and work in the contracting industry. Your truth is not mine because I hear the comments and see the reality everyday.

Ok Henry .... dig hole, insert head ... you sanctimonius old so-and-so!

p.s. * btw, great jobs you cite .... working at McDees!

 

[HenryReardon]

.... but Henry, I live in one of Sarah Palin's 'real America' towns and work in the contracting industry. Your truth is not mine because I hear the comments and see the reality everyday.


p.s. btw, great jobs you cite .... working at McDees!

For teenagers still in school, the golden arches are a decent place to work. Why is that a problem?

Our county has a population of approx 200,000, most of whom live in one city, so I think it qualifies as a 'real American' town. And, we are in the South, although Florida was never truly a 'deep South' kind of place in the sense that Alabama and Mississippi are.

You must live in a fairly backward area if what you say about employment is really accurate.

 

[HenryReardon]

Henry there are various issues which may depend on who wins in November but this tax issue is not one of them. It should to obvious to even the cursory political observer that the democrats will maintain their control of congress and, that being the case, the top tax rate is going up.

The republicans never made the Bush tax cuts permanent (perhaps they knew what kind of deficit busting spendthrifts they would be) so even if McCain wins congress will either do nothing and allow the cuts to expire or send him a bill which raises the top rates while keeping the 15 and 25% rate for the middle class.

Its unlikely McCain would veto such a bill as long as he has in interest in being re-elected.

You can yell about how unfair it all is and you can curse the republican congress for only making the cuts temporary but its all moot.

Obama or McCain.....on this one it don't matter so its inaccurate to call them Obama's taxes.

I think taxes are a major issue in this campaign.

The Bush tax cuts weren't made permanent because the votes weren't there and/or the Republicans didn't have the balls to make them permanent.

 

[smelter]

For teenagers still in school, the golden arches are a decent place to work. Why is that a problem?

Our county has a population of approx 200,000, most of whom live in one city, so I think it qualifies as a 'real American' town. And, we are in the South, although Florida was never truly a 'deep South' kind of place in the sense that Alabama and Mississippi are.

You must live in a fairly backward area if what you say about employment is really accurate.

I live in-between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, the Republican bedrock communities. Believe me, what I said is completely accurate. Many white contractors (even if they are personally liberal) won't hire non-whites because they realize it will hurt their business.

I will concede it's not as bad as 30 years ago but it is still there. The argument about equal opportunity for all is not completely true, at least not where I live and work.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

added comment: the problem is not isolated to teenagers. I'm talking about hiring practices in businesses that provide a decent living as a lifetime occupation.

 

[HenryReardon]

I live in-between Philadelphia and Pittsburgh Pennsylvania, the Republican bedrock communities. Believe me, what I said is completely accurate. Many white contractors (even if they are personally liberal) won't hire non-whites because they realize it will hurt their business.

I will concede it's not as bad as 30 years ago but it is still there. The argument about equal opportunity for all is not completely true, at least not where I live and work.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

added comment: the problem is not isolated to teenagers. I'm talking about hiring practices in businesses that provide a decent living as a lifetime occupation.

Now that's interesting. I know a little bit about the Pittsburgh area, because my grandparents came to Florida from 40 miles N of Pgh around 1921 when my father was quite young. I don't know how many (if any) of my cousins in the area are Republicans, but I do know that many of them are solid Union suppoters - this despite the fact that the unions pretty much drove steel out of the area and out of the country - and the current generation, unlike their grandparents, do not work in the mills. The whole area is more than a little bit depressed still, which may be a factor in the attitude towards people of color and jobs.

Funny, we in the South are so often painted with the 'racist' brush, when things are much worse in many parts of the North.

 

[smelter]

Funny, we in the South are so often painted with the 'racist' brush, when things are much worse in many parts of the North.

That's been my experience. One quick story before I need to log off .... the small company I work for hired a nice young kid who happened to Korean, but was born and raised here. We sent him out on a job with another worker and the customer called my boss and told him he doesn't want that 'Chinaman' working in his house.

 

[naked gent]

I think taxes are a major issue in this campaign.

Funny John McCain does too but its hard to believe in a time of rising deficits he'll fight hard to extend tax cuts which he originally voted against when there was a budget surplus.

Sounds like erratic behavior don't it.

I think McCain might be getting more traction on taxes if not for the fact that those who will see their tax rates go up under Obama are losing more money in the stock market each week than they will pay in increased taxes each yr (or two)

In any case with McCain or Obama you'll still end up with the same tax rates.....only the rhetoric will differ.

 

[Spensed]

Right up until the moment of its death, of course.

Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.

And therein lies your problem.

You can just about find the right mantra to chant. But what you say lacks common sense. In your world, the murdered baby had the same opportunities in life as Paris Hilton.

In truth, a murdered baby is deprived of all its opportunities by the murderer and that's the point.

Just as many adults are deprived of theirs by circumstance, illness, etc. etc.

As what you say is deprived of any reality. LOL.

 

[HenryReardon]

In truth, a murdered baby is deprived of all its opportunities by the murderer and that's the point.

No, that is not the point. Your example (which is pure sophistry) of the murdered baby illustrates outcome, not opportunity, and is totally devoid of logic.

 

[Spensed]

^ You're arguing that a murdered baby has the same opportunities (until his or her death) as Paris Hilton has (until her death). Funny.

 

[HenryReardon]

^ You're arguing that a murdered baby has the same opportunities (until his or her death) as Paris Hilton has (until her death). Funny.

soph·ist·ry
Pronunciation: \ˈsä-fə-strē\
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
1 : subtly deceptive reasoning or argumentation
2 : sophism 1

 

[Spensed]

^ Now look up over simplified right wing ideologies. LOL.