Oh Good! GOP Won't Support Obama Econ Plan

[Kulindahr]

They should be throwing tantrums -- but because there's pork in it.

 

[maxpowr9]

Getting this back on topic here, I for one am against the bailout/stimulus plan or w/e you want to call it. Now even though I am registered, Democrat (more or less for social reasons), I definately am more Libertarian.

My main reason against it, stagflation. We keep pumping money into our economy, the LT effect far outweighs the ST benefits. Just watch when this bill gets passed. By July/September 09, gas will skyrocket back up $4 a gallon. No, not because of negative supply shock (even with OPEC reducing output). Simply because we created about 20% of our TOTAL GDP (roughly $2 Trillion) out of thin air within the span of what, 6 months?

Giving a tax break now is perhaps one of the stupidest things he could do. 'Aiding middle-class America', what a load of crap. It may sound nice to people in theory, in reality, it is not. A tax-break means there is less money going to the government, which leads to even bigger deficits. Of course Obama is in favor of raising the Estate tax in 2010 (when it resets), which is a big blow. He is probably counting on this off-setting some of his tax cuts.

In the next two weeks, we shall see how 'good' his 4-year term will be.

 

[NickCole]

Getting this back on topic here, I for one am against the bailout/stimulus plan or w/e you want to call it. Now even though I am registered, Democrat (more or less for social reasons), I definately am more Libertarian.

My main reason against it, stagflation. We keep pumping money into our economy, the LT effect far outweighs the ST benefits. Just watch when this bill gets passed. By July/September 09, gas will skyrocket back up $4 a gallon. No, not because of negative supply shock (even with OPEC reducing output). Simply because we created about 20% of our TOTAL GDP (roughly $2 Trillion) out of thin air within the span of what, 6 months?

Giving a tax break now is perhaps one of the stupidest things he could do. 'Aiding middle-class America', what a load of crap. It may sound nice to people in theory, in reality, it is not. A tax-break means there is less money going to the government, which leads to even bigger deficits. Of course Obama is in favor of raising the Estate tax in 2010 (when it resets), which is a big blow. He is probably counting on this off-setting some of his tax cuts.

In the next two weeks, we shall see how 'good' his 4-year term will be.

I disagree with your opinion about spending and agree with you about tax cuts.

But I'm curious, what do you think Obama/Congress should do, or do you think it's best if they do essentially nothing and let this play out with virtually no government intervention?

For me, one of the problems I have with the general discussion in this country about what to do about the economy is that since Obama came into office it's being framed in Democratic versus Republican terms, when it's really not an issue of political ideology but of economics and character.

Before The One who's supposedly post-partisan came into office, Republicans and Democrats worked together to come up with a plan. It wasn't a good plan IMO, but the bailout was crafted by a Republican White House and then championed primarily by Congressional Democrats, including Obama. But now it's a Democratic versus Republican thing.

 

[jJoEd77]

I felt that the reason the republicans are so opposed to the stimulus package is because they didn't approve of where specifically the money was going. Not necessarily a political party feud (Although I assume GOP is bitter).
Maybe they would be for it if the package was revised?
Am I getting this wrong?

 

[HenryReardon]

I felt that the reason the republicans are so opposed to the stimulus package is because they didn't approve of where specifically the money was going. Not necessarily a political party feud (Although I assume GOP is bitter).
Maybe they would be for it if the package was revised?
Am I getting this wrong?

Nope. You've got it exactly right. The bill is loaded with pork and other items that have long been on the left/liberal agenda. The Democrats see this as a golden opportunity to slip a lot of programs in under the radar, so to speak.

 

[Kulindahr]

Each senator, regardless of party, ought to be able to point to an item and say, "This is pork", and if four other senators agree, it's gone.

If pork were golden for the economy, we'd all be living in the homes of our dreams, since both parties have been slipping it in since the first ham sandwich arrived in D.C.

 

[Kulindahr]

Nope. You've got it exactly right. The bill is loaded with pork and other items that have long been on the left/liberal agenda. The Democrats see this as a golden opportunity to slip a lot of programs in under the radar, so to speak.

Just like the "USA PATRIOT" Act was loaded with programs the authoritarian right had been panting after for years.



And so it goes.

 

[jJoEd77]

I also want to know how the stimulus package is going to affect anything. People need jobs and how is this going to either create them, or get them to the people?
To me, this money seems empty. Can anyone clear this up for me?

 

[NickCole]

There are elements of this stimulus bill that should not be included, that should be separate legislation, some of it major.

For instance:

The economic stimulus plan that Congress has scheduled for a vote on Wednesday would shower the nation’s school districts, child care centers and university campuses with $150 billion in new federal spending, a vast two-year investment that would more than double the Department of Education’s current budget. ...

Critics and supporters alike said that by its sheer scope, the measure could profoundly change the federal government’s role in education, which has traditionally been the responsibility of state and local government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/28/education/28educ.html?_r=1&ref=politics

First of all that's a huge amount of money and there's no way to know how much will be spent in ways that stimulate the economy.

Secondly, if the President and Congress is putting forth legislation that more than doubles the Dept of Ed budget and "could profoundly change the federal government's role in education," it should be debated and defended. Folding it into an economic stimulus bill without public hearings is sneaky and about as far from the transparency Obama promised as you can get.

 

[HenryReardon]

Secondly, if the President and Congress is putting forth legislation that more than doubles the Dept of Ed budget and "could profoundly change the federal government's role in education," it should be debated and defended. Folding it into an economic stimulus bill without public hearings is sneaky and about as far from the transparency Obama promised as you can get.

The country would be better served if they were to eliminate the federal government role in education entirely, and give the money to the states and local school districts, with as few strings as possible. (Fat chance)

In any event, that's hardly appropriate in a "stimulus" bill.

 

[NickCole]

The House passed Obama's stimulus package.

No Republicans voted for it.

So much for Obama's pledge to end partisan division in Washington.

BTW, I think too much of this bill is crap, and the good parts don't go far enough, and is therefore not going to come anywhere close to fixing our economic crisis.

I thought the $700 Billion bailout was crap too.

But they're really good at one thing. Racking up debt. So far nobody seems to have learned anything from what led to this economic crisis.

 

[jJoEd77]

The House passed Obama's stimulus package.

No Republicans voted for it.

So much for Obama's pledge to end partisan division in Washington.

Yeah this is exactly what he meant
I really don't see a fault with the GOP here though, the Dems are at fault with this crappy un-stimulating package.
It just looks like the Republicans are being abnoxious cause everyone else doesn't actually know the details of the package. They just think "ooo, money. vote yes"

 

[NickCole]

Yeah this is exactly what he meant
I really don't see a fault with the GOP here though, the Dems are at fault with this crappy un-stimulating package.
It just looks like the Republicans are being abnoxious cause everyone else doesn't actually know the details of the package. They just think "ooo, money. vote yes"

Big fault with the GOP as well.

Republicans offered a stimulus measure, voted on before the Dem bill, which was no better. Primarily tax cuts, which will not solve the problem.

 

[jJoEd77]

Why can't everyone just get along
This whole Dems vs. Rep is getting annoying.
It seems like this election really separated the two major parties even more.

 

[Kulindahr]

Why can't everyone just get along
This whole Dems vs. Rep is getting annoying.
It seems like this election really separated the two major parties even more.

Because each party has its own brand of stupidity.

Education doesn't belong in a stimulus bill.
Research doesn't belong in a stimulus bill.
Casinos don't belong in a stimulus bill.


This is not a stimulus bill, it's a con job.

 

[Kulindahr]

I just emailed both Oregon senators with this:

I've been looking through the details of this "stimulus" package that passed the House. What I've discovered so far is that at least a third of it has nothing to do with a stimulus for the economy, and that it has a pile of pork in it.
This item needs to die -- please do not vote for it!

 

[letme]

Because each party has its own brand of stupidity.

Education doesn't belong in a stimulus bill.
Research doesn't belong in a stimulus bill.
Casinos don't belong in a stimulus bill.


This is not a stimulus bill, it's a con job.

Thanks

That is zactly why the Pugs voted No ! or not even : present
Had the GOP voted w. the Dims and the plan fails (which it will) BHO woulda said ..


Umm look , this umm bill was um , approved by both ,um sides of the , um fence/isle. No bodies are at faults ,um here. I tried but ,um the Congress screwed up what ,um I wanted passed. They changed what I wanted , um cuz they can not get along. I WON !!! Leave your bats & gloves on MY Ball Field. I Am The ONE.

......

The GOP is smart ,very smart !!!

Plan fails....GOP gets points in 2010/2012
Plan works.... GOP is still where it was , on a ship w/ a big hole.

GOP will get many chances to make up for this If they are wrong on this...NOT !

 

[chance1]

i think pres obama handled this pretty well

made some revisions

that made some looney tunes on the left upset

still didn't appease u know who

my gut is the repubs made a mistake here

not sure what they're doing on this

don't think they know either

who's leading this group anyway?

 

[Kulindahr]

Thanks

That is zactly why the Pugs voted No ! or not even : present
Had the GOP voted w. the Dims and the plan fails (which it will) BHO woulda said ..


Umm look , this umm bill was um , approved by both ,um sides of the , um fence/isle. No bodies are at faults ,um here. I tried but ,um the Congress screwed up what ,um I wanted passed. They changed what I wanted , um cuz they can not get along. I WON !!! Leave your bats & gloves on MY Ball Field. I Am The ONE.

......

The GOP is smart ,very smart !!!

Plan fails....GOP gets points in 2010/2012
Plan works.... GOP is still where it was , on a ship w/ a big hole.

GOP will get many chances to make up for this If they are wrong on this...NOT !

Party smart, sure.
But that's what's killing the country -- being "party smart" means only being pretty smart, not really smart.

We thought that with Obama we were getting "country smart", but his package was so partisan it's plain we weren't.

He should have taken the centrist members of each party and worked out something they could agree on, and told the fringe on each side to go stick their heads in the bottom of the Potomac looking for lost silver dollars, so they'd be useful.

 

[NickCole]

i think pres obama handled this pretty well

made some revisions

that made some looney tunes on the left upset

still didn't appease u know who

my gut is the repubs made a mistake here

not sure what they're doing on this

don't think they know either

who's leading this group anyway?

It's possible what they're doing is believing this bill will not turn around the economic crisis, they then will take credit for recognizing that and trying to stop another $800 Billion following the failed $700 Bailout Billion championed by Peloisi, Reid and Obama.

I think Republican "solutions" to this economic crisis, the ones I've read about and heard on TV, are no better than this bill. But if this bill is unsuccessful, Democrats own it.

Obama handled it very badly. His objective was to get Republicans on board. He included big tax cut provisions in the bill to please them, then made revisions to please them, and still he failed to get a single GOP vote. I don't see how you can characterize such a monumental failure as handling it pretty well? Especially with Obama having promised so grandly during the campaign that he was going to usher in an era of post-partisan Washington.