Ok fellow liberals, help me out here

[zombiekiller]

Not really an insult if one explain clearly in his posts.

I didn't say insults. I said passive aggressive insults. Most of his posts have some kind of hostile tone to them. Every time he responds to me, he first has to put a negative spin on my words. I've gotten used to that. And now, every time someone disagrees with him on something, he'd throw out subtle hints of insults while he's talking to them. His overall tone always has a hint of aggression.

 

[JPGhost]

You can still be liberal/democrat and oppose muslim immigration like a few percent of democrats which helped to veto President's policy just awhile ago.

 

[rareboy]

I didn't say insults. I said passive aggressive insults. Most of his posts have some kind of hostile tone to them. Every time he responds to me, he first has to put a negative spin on my words. I've gotten used to that. And now, every time someone disagrees with him on something, he'd throw out subtle hints of insults while he's talking to them. His overall tone always has a hint of aggression.

You know, the reason why you might find my replies passive aggressive is that you do it so well yourself.

Take this thread for instance. It seemed only designed to allow you to once again slag off both christians and muslims under the guise of looking for 'help'. Or as a kind of 'Look At Me. I'm a refugee too! But not like these scary new refugees!'

Having led with this, apparently unable to even conceive of the possibility that many of these refugees might be about as ardent muslims as you are christian, you immediately dropped into some irrelevant reply about christianity and islam being against homos and tales of people being hung in refugee camps....as though somehow these are the people you'll be living next door to.

So, you see, because you seem to be exhibiting that kind of witless, thoughtless anti-immigrant knee jerk reaction that is being fanned by the used car salesmen and other hucksters in the US congress and on the campaign trail....it might just have provoked a degree of disdain that just shines through in my somewhat incredulous replies. All I can say is that I'm struggling to be as polite as possible.

So here's a deal. Perhaps if you take a few extra minutes to think through a situation like this, and apply simple logic, common sense, mathematical probability, historical and current situational context and don't jump to slagging off all religious people by the third reply in the thread....I'll be able to read the OP and reply without feeling like we're just being set up in another troll thread on religion bashing.

 

[Telstra]

I didn't say insults. I said passive aggressive insults. Most of his posts have some kind of hostile tone to them. Every time he responds to me, he first has to put a negative spin on my words. I've gotten used to that. And now, every time someone disagrees with him on something, he'd throw out subtle hints of insults while he's talking to them. His overall tone always has a hint of aggression.

Many others insulted me but i don't know why rareboy hasn't insulted me yet

 

[star-warrior]

Many others insulted me but i don't know why rareboy hasn't insulted me yet

Omnia tempus habent....

 

[JohnnyAnger]

I'm having a hard time reconciling my empathy for the refugees and my instinct for self-preservation.

I'm talking about accepting Muslim refugees.

Why, it's not bad enough that we have been having to deal with the American born religious crazies who hate us? Now, we'll take in more religious crazies who hate us?

Naturally, being a refugee myself, I support us taking in refugees from Syria and whatnot. But my instinct for self-preservation is kicking in. I just don't see how the 2 sides of me can reconcile.

Most Americans were opposed to Vietnamese people coming to America in the 1970s (only 36% of people were in favour of accepting people like your own family). Did you live up to all the fears and resentments that Americans placed on you? Or did you instead, integrate into your new country and become a normal American citizen.

Anyway, these people are escaping extremist politics, if they really wanted to kill gay people and non-Muslims they would just join ISIS and stay in Syria.

 

[zombiekiller]

You know, the reason why you might find my replies passive aggressive is that you do it so well yourself.

No I don't.

Take this thread for instance. It seemed only designed to allow you to once again slag off both christians and muslims under the guise of looking for 'help'. Or as a kind of 'Look At Me. I'm a refugee too! But not like these scary new refugees!'

Another negative spin of my words.

Look, would you agree that if you think hard enough you can interpret anyone's words in a negative light? That's what you're doing here. You interpret my words in the worst light possible.

Having led with this, apparently unable to even conceive of the possibility that many of these refugees might be about as ardent muslims as you are christian, you immediately dropped into some irrelevant reply about christianity and islam being against homos and tales of people being hung in refugee camps....as though somehow these are the people you'll be living next door to.

We've been trying to tell society at large for a long time that just because they don't personally know a person with X characteristic that doesn't mean they shouldn't care about that person.

After all, one of the most popular and widely advocated ways gay rights advocates use to further our rights is to let people know us on a personal level and demonstrate that we are individuals just like everyone else.

And here you are using the opposite argument that I shouldn't care because these people won't be my next door neighbors.

So, you see, because you seem to be exhibiting that kind of witless, thoughtless anti-immigrant knee jerk reaction that is being fanned by the used car salesmen and other hucksters in the US congress and on the campaign trail....it might just have provoked a degree of disdain that just shines through in my somewhat incredulous replies. All I can say is that I'm struggling to be as polite as possible.

Knee jerk? Let's go back to my original question. Do you or do you not agree that Christianity and Islam at large are against our rights? The societies where these people came from hang gay people by popular demand. Do we really want to bring that kind of viewpoint into our society?

So here's a deal. Perhaps if you take a few extra minutes to think through a situation like this, and apply simple logic, common sense, mathematical probability, historical and current situational context and don't jump to slagging off all religious people by the third reply in the thread....I'll be able to read the OP and reply without feeling like we're just being set up in another troll thread on religion bashing.

Sure, I'll take a few minutes to think about these things if you stop hurling subtle insults my way every chance you get.

Let me guess, your next response will compose of the worst possible interpretation of my words in this post and then a couple paragraphs of subtle insults followed by more passive aggressive insults.

 

[zombiekiller]

Most Americans were opposed to Vietnamese people coming to America in the 1970s (only 36% of people were in favour of accepting people like your own family). Did you live up to all the fears and resentments that Americans placed on you? Or did you instead, integrate into your new country and become a normal American citizen.

Anyway, these people are escaping extremist politics, if they really wanted to kill gay people and non-Muslims they would just join ISIS and stay in Syria.

I didn't say they wanted to kill non-muslims. I said they wanted to kill gay people.

Again, these are the same people who came from societies that hang gay people by popular demand.

You're confusing me with right wing nutcases. Unlike Trump's followers, I don't think every muslim is a terrorist. I do, however, think they overwhelmingly are against our right to live. And their societies prove my point.

 

[Kahaih]

It seems a lot of people like to talk about the difference between Average Joe Religious Person and 'those fundamentalists' as though there is this huge gap between them.

I don't believe it. I don't believe the gap is terribly big – if there is a gap at all.

Some people will claim this huge gap exists, and then, turn right around an talk about the huge numbers of religious people as though there are so many who 'believe' that they must 'have it right' – often to the point of displaying a 'don’t fuck with us' style gang member/gangster mentality.

Who can say what each individual 'refugee' feels or believes, or how different or nearly the same he/she is to those from whom he/she claims to be escaping?

 

[opinterph]

… societies that hang gay people by popular demand.

I would like to have a little more information about how popular demand factors into the killings.

Here are the 10 countries where homosexuality may be punished by death (Washington Post; February 2014)

Refugees and Asylees in the United States (Migration Policy Institute; October 2015)​

 

[ElmosToe]

Are we having fun yet?

 

[NotHardUp1]

Regardless of our ever-circling raptor in Toronto, it is rare to hear anyone in the U.S. espouse killing gays. Suggesting that millions who oppose gay marriage are equal to wanting us dead is simply hyperbole.

And, equating all religious people with the most extreme is equally false, so painting all Muslims and Christians with a big fat fear brush is more than inaccurate -- it's deliberately false.

From the cheap seats, Zombie and RB appear to deserve each other in this "debate."

 

[rareboy]

^ Obviously the view isn't too god up there in the cheap seats.

It reads...'or want to strip you of rights.'

We know this because the polls tell us so.

And somewhere in those millions are those who would wish homos dead. Who knows how many there are? Enough to attend a conference recently. Enough to spread their hate into Africa to help get the death penalty legislated in some countries for homosexuality.

 

[NotHardUp1]

If I were you, I'd be more concerned about the millions of third and fourth generation people in your own country who want you dead or want to strip you of the rights that have taken years longer to achieve in the US than they should have.

"Millions who want you dead or . . ." plainly give the impression that millions do. Equating them in the undivided millions with those who oppose gay marriage is both inaccurate and inflammatory.

Death-wishers are rare, and you know it. They also sit in lawyers' seats, on university boards and elsewhere. Religion has no lock on the haters. JUB has proven this many times over.

 

[Soilwork]

Pat Grimshaw left me an in-character passive aggressive post saying I had "forgotten the San Bernardino" thing... forgetting that the people who did that weren't refugees... they were citizens.

I didn't bother to read the rest of his post since I'm allergic to stupid asshole.

 

[eastofeden]

For what it is worth..I would much rather take in Athiests...or Buddhists...or Taoists...or Wiccans...

Like it or not..and I am a left liberal socialist....many of the Muslim Nations have the death penalty for gay people based on their RELIGIOUS BELIEFS. I am a little stunned that so many liberals want to defend them....not to mention their human rights violations and what they do to women....and children...

If it were atheists from the Middle East..NO PROBLEM...but I am not going to pretend that the Muslim religion is OK..the Christians are already a thorn in my side....and I have tried to overlook it...but if I was one of the gay people who was put to death for my "crime"...I would not REST IN PEACE knowing my fellow gay people all over the world are making excuses for and overlooking that crap...

The only thing that stops me from opening my mouth more is that I know any time I end up on the same side as the teabaggers I know something is wrong....

..but still....

 

[Telstra]

People who believe in Islam are the problem and the solution.
People who believe in Christianity are the problem and the solution.

And you might say, did you say ALL muslims and ALL christians ?
Yes, all means all.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Our ancestors fled to America to outrun the religious persecution in Europe, so they could in turn set up their own intolerant sectarian governments here.

Before Christians and Muslims dominated Europe, the Romans killed mercilessly in the arena for entertainment, and we don't fully know who the Celts sacrificed other than their spent kings, or chiefs.

We are not who the colonists were. We are not who the Pagans were.

We have evolved in the blend of cultures here. We welcome those from abroad, be it Africa, SE Asia, the Middle East, or wherever, as we fully expect those comers to evolve in time under the American sky. If you've ever met an immigrant, you can see this process unfold before you, and they don't rush off to move back home.

Do I admire Islam? Not much? Do I admire Wiccans? Not much. But that is not the criterion for acceptance. To each his own. I trust that our laws will largely continue to progress, despite the recent rise of police state practices.

Sadly, there is a growing resistance to accepting immigrants, and long before terrorism's rise. I work against that, and am thankful that many of the xenophobic voices on this forum are from outside the U.S., suggesting it may not be so wonderful over there either.

 

[peeonme]

^ Obviously the view isn't too god up there in the cheap seats.

It reads...'or want to strip you of rights.'

We know this because the polls tell us so.

And somewhere in those millions are those who would wish homos dead. Who knows how many there are? Enough to attend a conference recently. Enough to spread their hate into Africa to help get the death penalty legislated in some countries for homosexuality.

In the USA it's more a matter of wish that we didn't exist, in their perfect world there would be no gays. Likewise, many Catholics would prefer that there were no Baptists and many of them have no love for Catholics.

So it's not a matter of wanting to kill us, we are a thorn in their side. When it comes to rights, many would be against any rights for gays. But be aware that some churches in America support gay rights and have gay pastors.

If you find a Mosque with a gay imam I would like to be made aware of it...

 

[GarJock21]

I wonder if there were gay men in Germany in the early thirties that said the same thing about the jews? Did they applaud when the nazis started rounding them up.Did they think that better the jews then us? That we're good germans.They would never come for us.Oh wait.......They did