OK, so GM automakers need $12 billion

[Croynan]

would you prefer that approximately 2,000,000 unemployed workers could result from a failure to do something to help the automotive industry?

for us to lose an entire industry at this time, with what is currently going on with the economy, could be one of the most dangerous
financial and emotional disasters to ever occur in this country.

i may not like the idea of the bail out, but i don't want to run the risk or possibility of 2,000,000 of my fellow Americans standing in unemployment lines.

just some random thoughts from the local village idiot.


eM.

 

[gsdx]

would you prefer that approximately 2,000,000 unemployed workers could result from a failure to do something to help the automotive industry?

No, but it might be an idea to bring their wages back down to a more realistic level. The unions are making it impossible for the industry to keep up with the cheaper alternatives. They simply can't compete.

Bailing them out would solve nothing. The remedy would be temporary at best. You cannot save a sinking ship with chewing gum.

 

[levenshulme31]

Maybe they could try making some good quality, economical cars that people might just want to buy.

 

[Huskerboy]

I'm more for the "bailout" of the auto makers than I am for the banking bailout! Here's how I got there... (I sound like Glen Beck!)

The "Big 3" have told Congress they're selling their corporate jets and willing to use more conventional means of transportation to do business. I believe all CEOs have taken voluntary pay cuts with the CEO of GM stating that he's willing to accept a salary of only $1.00 if the bailout money is used. They've also stated they're pouring big bucks into developing autos that get higher MPG ratings, and will be building more electric/hybrid models.

To me, this indicates they're serious about saving their companies and protecting the jobs of thousands and thousands of workers. The fat cats in the banking industry haven't shown any remorse, and in fact, they've taken our bailout money and thrown lavish "training seminars" (what bull shit!!!) at resorts in Vegas and who knows where else!

It's true, the Big 3 should have seen the writing on the wall years ago, but they didn't. They continued down the same old path that American consumers were accustomed to... full-size autos, SUVs and a flat mid-size/compact market. Add to that their failure to improve the quality of their product, and it was bound to happen.

I don't think they need to be handed a blank check, but I think they might need a little help correcting their mistakes and making things right again. If so many jobs weren't on the line, I'd say no way - but I think, based on what I've heard, this might be a good think for everyone when you stand back and look at the big picture.

Just my two cents worth...

 

[Sk8ter_Boy]

GM is being completely screwed over the UAW union the average a factory worker is making right now including wages and fringes is about $72 an hour and even though GM has closed certain factories the workers are still getting paid to sit there and do nothing. Honda and Toyota for example do not have to follow UAW guide lines and are doing ok even during the economic struggle and while paying their CEO's 45m a year surely doesnt help them what company pays their CEO's less than that. I dont know about you guys but I think the UAW is what needs to go otherwise GM will have the same problem again in a few months.
As a side note to whoever said that GM did not make economical cars
The Chevy Aveo costs $13,000 starting and gets 34mpg highway, Honda Civic costs 16,000 starting and gets 29mpg highway

Chevy Cobalt 17,000 starting 34mpg highway
Honda Accord 21,000 starting 29mpg highway
GM also offers a better factory powertain warranty and an identicle bumper to bumper warranty.

I do not work for GM, I have no family members that drive a GM nor do I own one myself. Just thought I would clear up some misconceptions.

 

[Ares]

There are too many people attached to the company.

*raiseshand* *ducks*

these are some scary times.

 

[savboy]

Chevy may have cars with better mileage and better prices...but i'm still gonna buy the Honda because they have earned a better reputation for quality. The more you spend up front for the foreign car will pay for itself over time with less repairs and better resale.

That's Chevy, Ford and Chrysler's main problem they will have to overcome and it's gonna take many years of good quality products to overcome that stigma.

 

[frankfrank]

Yeah so let's throw $12 billion at them so in less than a decade we can be right back where we are now. Well, at least people at GM will be able to keep their jobs a little longer. SOME of them anyway. Personally I think they might wanna start looking for new work because even a bailout probably isn't going to secure anyone's future worth a shit. Let's be honest. Well OK, it will secure CEO's futures.

The bailout will give them even more capital to afford to build all their brand-spanking-new car factories...in China, Malaysia and Viet Nam!

Originally Posted by Huskerboy View Post
I believe all CEOs have taken voluntary pay cuts with the CEO of GM stating that he's willing to accept a salary of only $1.00 if the bailout money is used.

That's where I get REALLY skeptical. Does that mean he's going to move to the ghetto and trade in his car for a hooptie? How is he going to maintain the lavish lifestyle he lived up until this proposal? Is he going to move into a studio apt.?

Oh, not to worry, I'm sure he can easily live on a $1 per year salary, because that doesn't include the millions of dollars he's surely getting every year from investments, dividends, annuities, etc. Even in this dismal economy, if he has $300 million of investments which have soured-down to a $130 million level, he's still in pretty good shape.

 

[HungLawboy27]

I agree with some information on this thread. However, this is not about just bailing out a company. This is about doing what is necessary to keep the US making cars. If all three of the major car makers were to go out of business it would mean a loss of roughly 3million jobs throughout the US mainly affecting the midwest. If you add that to the running total of roughly 1 million jobs that have been lost due to other companies going under that would be 4 millions people are out of work. The other things that you have to consider is that most people but, not all that work in manufacturing jobs are trade type jobs and most employee's would have to go back to school or be retrained in a new field. Not to even mention that all the car part suppliers would go under and anyone with American cars would not be able to find parts. Basically in a nutshell it would mean a even more devastating blow to the US economy. All three of the CEO of the car companies have agreed to take a salary of $1.00 for a year if they receive money from the government. I personally dont like the government give away our money so that us tax payers have to pay back. However, this situation is very different than the 1930's we were not as established as we are today. We are dealing with history and we need to take the time and consideration to make sure these issues are dealt with right so we are dealing with it later.

 

[latinguy69]

This time is the automakers, then who is next? airlines? health system?
communication companies? How much the government really can afford to bail out?
Just a thought.

 

[thermodynamics]

I'm fine with infusing the Big Three with cash. So long as we (the taxpayers) get something big in return. The AIG deal was absolutely spectacular for us--an 80% stake in the company and 8% interest. If we could negotiate a spectacular share price, I'd like to see the gov't just buy a bunch of stock. That way, when/if the companies get back to profitability, we the taxpayers have at least a chance to get our money back.

 

[looseliam]

The UAW a few years back reduced wages $1 an hour across the board to over $10bn in savings and the CEOs got a bigger bonus.

We also have to remember that Canada produces quite a bit for GM and Chrysler.

I'd like to see the money going the the big three instead of greedy paper pushers in the finance industry.

If the three go down the hit on this country will be devastating. There may be towns that will cease to exist if detroit folds.

 

[joshbjr]

They need the money.
No one could have guessed the market would change so fast. In recent years nissan, toyota, honda ALL started making large suv's and trucks, You know why...thats what the people wanted. Alot of people are trying to blame it on bad mpg, well us the americans bought them and wanted them, and replaced them ever 3-5 years. Car companies make a much nicer profit on a toyota highlander over a camry. Why wouldnt you make as many as you could, if they were selling like hotcakes? They made a huge profit of suv's and trucks. Growing up I remeber when the ford expediton came out, within a few months multiple people in my subdivison had them. The only problem the big three did was they did not invest in improving small cars and make them equal quality as there suv's. I dont know if any of you have been in new chevy tahoe or suburaban, but they are just as nice as my parents BMW....and they will get the same mpg as it. If any of the three could make a small car or any size car as nice as the suv's they would sell.....

No one knew gas was gonna rise that much, example: The 2009 pilot, do you think honda would have spend a ton of money changing the already well selling pilot, if they knew as soon as they launched it gas would spike and no one would buy them.....

 

[Yooper]

About one in ten jobs in my hometown in Michigan is dependent on the auto industry; it is where the iron is mined to make the steel that makes the cars. The local/regional newspaper opposes a bailout, despite the October Unemployment rate for the U.P. was 7.8% and climbing.

'But before Congress or the administration consider a massive cash infusion to Detroit, they should bear in mind that there is another, much more successful auto industry in the United States. Honda, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan and others have assembly plants - feeding the entire ecosystem of parts suppliers - throughout the country. What those automakers don't have, however, is built-in "legacy costs" of United Auto Workers contracts that, among other things, created a "pool" of workers paid not to work and lifetime, very generous health benefits. Instead of surrendering to market discipline and rewriting their labor contracts, the Big Three and the UAW demand that taxpayers bail them out and save them from doing what they ought to remain competitive.'

Full link:
http://www.miningjournal.net/page/content.detail/id/519047.html?nav=5003

 

[yellowminicooper]

Unions had their place in history. I think they destroyed the auto industry in the past 20 years.

I am thankful to be able to get up and go to work each day.

Many of you have great points on looking at the big picture.

 

[gsdx]

No one could have guessed the market would change so fast.

It isn't only the recent changes in the market that are the problem. For almost a century, there was no competition for the Big 3 except amongst themselves and each year it was "Make it bigger! Make it better!"

Then came the imports, but the Big 3 still maintained their "Make it bigger! Make it better!" attitude and passed off the imports and insignificant, inconsequential nuisances. There was no real competition as far as they were concerned. Americans would continue to 'buy American', no matter how much more it might cost.

The world was changing around them and the Big 3 bigwigs sat in their cozy little offices, sipping their cognac and making certain that their blinders were firmly affixed to their eyes, and they didn't pay any attention to what was going on around them. When things began to change many years ago, their solution was to "Make it Bigger! Make it Better!" so they could sell more than the other '2'. And still the imports were not seen as competition.

But the imports had always been able to see into the future. They weren't blinded by seeming endless supplies of oil and a solid, indestructible economy and workers who could make 30 bucks an hour sweeping floors and emptying trash containers and cleaning toilets.

This has been happening for decades and the Big 3 never wavered from their path. Only recently have they sat back, scratching their collective heads, and say, "Oh, shit! What's going on here?"

They've spent almost a century digging the hole they're in. I don't think there's enough money to fill it back up so they can get out of it.

The tax payers got them where they are today by buying their merchandise, and now they want the tax payers to help them fix a problem which they themselves created.

If the Big 3 are to survive, I think they will have to wipe the slate clean and start all over from scratch so they are at least in competition with everyone else instead of just themselves. Nobody deserves being paid 30 bucks an hour just to sweep floors.

 

[SwitchHit50]

GM/Ford/Chrysler built the SUV's and vehicles that consumers WANTED, and that is the key word. When gas skyrocketed, the panic button was hit and "OMG WE CAN'T BUY THAT GAS HOG"

Put the big 3 in the lurch, because they MADE what the consumer wanted and within a month or two it's THEIR fault that gas prices skyrocket? C'Mon...

As far as quality goes, I'll stack about ANY American based car against anything foreign based. I've been behind the wheel for almost 40 years and that's a lot older than most of you. I have zero issues with American cars.

Lastly, and this has been mentioned a few times: If one of the big three go down, it will be a net loss of THREE million jobs PER manufacturer.

In other words, one kick your ass economical depression!

And I doubt this country would survive it this time around.

 

[gsdx]

GM/Ford/Chrysler built the SUV's and vehicles that consumers WANTED, and that is the key word. When gas skyrocketed, the panic button was hit and "OMG WE CAN'T BUY THAT GAS HOG"

This is not a new event. It's been happening for decades. There have been countless gas price jumps in the past and the price always comes down again, but rarely lower than it was before.

But the Big 3 counted on people living in the 'now' and would continue to buy their gas guzzlers without looking at 'tomorrow'. The imports, meanwhile, actually built their cars for 'tomorrow'.

Well, guess what? Tomorrow's here and the Big 3 aren't.

 

[gsdx]

Yeah but really, has gas ever skyrocketed the way it has in the last few years?

Not to such extremes, perhaps, but it has happened time and time again. People simply waited out the crisis and joined the queues to gas up and the automakers sat back and waited and thought about all the new toys they could pile on their vehicles to justify the thousands of extra dollars they were going to charge in the new models.

The Big 3 can't blame anything or anyone else but themselves.

If you've noticed, though, since the gas prices came back down again, people haven't been flocking to buy all the Big 3 behemoths again. They've finally smartened up and have started thinking, "Oh. Maybe Toyota was onto something."

Sure, Detroit is an American institution, but it has run itself into the ground because it was too damned arrogant and cocky in believing that Americans were too damned gullible and stupid to allow it to happen.

 

[SwitchHit50]

The other way around actually, there was no shortage of four cylinder Saturns,and Fords when I was looking a year ago. I had my pick as people wanted 6 cylinders and V8's.
Now it's the exact opposite. How is that the manufacturer's fault? They can't retool on just six months notice.

The imports do not and never will have the versatility of American made vehicles, Honda Accords use THREE different sized disc brake pads for 2008,
the Chevy Malibu has one. The Toyota line has four different sizes, the chances of buying the wrong size If you're not a knowledgeable mechanic?
(Which most people are not.)

I digress on the cars of tomorrow, GM, Ford Chrysler are more than capable of handling it, now that the need and demand is there. Hybrids are being built and are being driven to Washington by the CEO's as we speak.

When the wonderful import companies were building armament and ripping apart Pearl Harbor and Southeast/west Asia The Car companies retooled overnight to meet that demand.
Aren't YOU thankful for it? You could be speaking Japanese now.
But that's another discussion.



But the Big 3 counted on people living in the 'now' and would continue to buy their gas guzzlers without looking at 'tomorrow'. The imports, meanwhile, actually built their cars for 'tomorrow'.

Well, guess what? Tomorrow's here and the Big 3 aren't.[/quote]