OK to OUT - Part II

[MadeUpName27]

Happy now???

 

[Kulindahr]

I don't see how a Libertarian, or even a libertarian, can vote "yes". Outing someone is a violation of his personal integrity and sovereignty, which isn't very libertarian.

 

[Eric28]

I think we should always encourage our fellow brothers and sisters to come out, but it's ultimately a personal decision that shouldn't be dictated by public opinion or service! I voted Independent and No!

 

[sparky95]

Well, I think they should be outed if they act in ways that harm the gay community, like voting against anti-dicrimination legislation!

 

[james1200]

i'll pretend to be a republican for a sec *shudder*...ok, i am now a complete hypocrite. i want everyone outed now even tho i myself am not out!

 

[turtle]

Personal integrity.

Honesty.

If you have something to hide, stay out of politics and public service.

-D

 

[Kulindahr]

I think we should always encourage our fellow brothers and sisters to come out, but it's ultimately a personal decision that shouldn't be dictated by public opinion or service! I voted Independent and No!

Well said.
All such decisions are personal -- something today's society seems to have forgotten.

 

[turtle]

Well said.
All such decisions are personal -- something today's society seems to have forgotten.

If you are not honest, privately, how can I expect you to be honest publicly?

No more carefully nurtured, but false, images.

No more lies.

I did not ask or require that politician to enter the arena. He volunteered.

Now, if there is any dishonesty, any lack of integrity, if there are any lies, it is my right, even my duty, to know.

Integrity, by definition, means the practice of integrating one's beliefs and values thoroughly through one's entire life, without compartmentalizing one or another part of your life and living it by different standards.

Once again, to be quite clear, I do not care if a politician is Gay, I care whether he is honest. If a candidate cannot be honest about his personal life, because such honesty may hurt him, then how can I expect him to stand up and tell the truth in any other difficult situation?

We have had so much dishonesty that we cannot simply trust any more.

-D

 

[Kulindahr]

If you are not honest, privately, how can I expect you to be honest publicly?

No more carefully nurtured, but false, images.

No more lies.

I did not ask or require that politician to enter the arena. He volunteered.

Now, if there is any dishonesty, any lack of integrity, if there are any lies, it is my right, even my duty, to know.

Integrity, by definition, means the practice of integrating one's beliefs and values thoroughly through one's entire life, without compartmentalizing one or another part of your life and living it by different standards.

Once again, to be quite clear, I do not care if a politician is Gay, I care whether he is honest. If a candidate cannot be honest about his personal life, because such honesty may hurt him, then how can I expect him to stand up and tell the truth in any other difficult situation?

We have had so much dishonesty that we cannot simply trust any more.

-D

As I said elsewhere....

Do you want all candidates to parade around with billboards tacked to their backs, listing everything from whether they have hemorrhoids to whether they pick their nose when no one is looking? whether a man has sex in the kitchen or not?
If you don;t think any of those, or quite a number of other things, can hurt a politician, you're living in la-la land. I've known a good number of people who would NEVER vote for a man who had sex ANYWHERE outside the bedroom, or for any candidate who picked his/her nose anywhere at all, and a fair number who wouldn't even think to vote for someone who so much as mentioned hemorrhoids.

Sorry, but you have no right to know anything about anyone but what they choose for you to know, so long as that person isn't inflicting harm on you by keeping it private. What you are asking for isn't honesty, it's ownership. A person does not give up self-ownership by entering politics. Nor does he enter any unwritten contract to lay his life open before us -- only what he chooses to.

And your choice is to not vote for him if you think there's something he's hiding -- and that's all. You have NO right to invade his privacy and disrupt his life by prying into his affairs or revealing what he wishes not to reveal. To believe you do is arrogance and shows a total misunderstanding of human rights.

 

[Roland00]

If you are not honest, privately, how can I expect you to be honest publicly?
No more carefully nurtured, but false, images.
No more lies.

So would you make a difference between a closet case, a person who doesn't want to admit emotionally to himself that he is gay vs a person who realizes he is gay has no problems with that, accepts himself, but doesn't broadcast it to the world that he is gay.

Due to our society people will assume he is straight, after all we live in a "heterosexist society."

Does that make a difference?

 

[turtle]

As I have said over and over, I do not want liars in office.

I am "straight-appearing". I raised a child. People took for granted that I was straight.

And still, over and over again, I had to decide whether to tell the truth, or to obfuscate, prevaricate or lie.

Because it does come up.

"Are you married?" "Do you have a girlfriend?" "Would you like to meet my cousin?" "Be sure to bring your 'significant other'."

Oh, yes, you can get by a lot of those by simple stonewalling.

But not always, and not easily.

I will reject any politician who I know lies about anything, no matter how inconsequential, and that includes Bill Clinton, who made me as angry as George Bush does, and whose lie put the Neo-cons in office.

-D

 

[Rand]

As I have said over and over, I do not want liars in office.
-D

A person does not have to answer a question, but they should never lie. If I knew a politician was gay and he answered a question stating he was not, he would lose my vote.

Where that politician to say, that is a person question and I will not answer. Integrity is a value which should be highly prized, but is normally seen as a liability for most politicians.

None in DC have any.

 

[iman]

Why should we accept deception from anyone? Why shouldn't we expect honesty and integrity from everyone? Sexual preference is not a "private matter" for st8's, why is it suddenly a private matter for closeted gays? If someone does not want to tell the world that they are gay then they should not be having gay sex. If you are ashamed of it, don't do it. If you want the benefits of being st8, go get married.

It is the phonies like Foley and his closet case Republicans, not to mention the pervert priests, that do harm to the rest of us.

 

[Kulindahr]

Were that politician to say, that is a person question and I will not answer. Integrity is a value which should be highly prized, but is normally seen as a liability for most politicians.

None in DC have any.

I disagree. Representative Ron Paul, from Texas, has loads.
I think maybe he got all the integrity a certain more well-known Texas politician lacks.

 

[Kulindahr]

OK, so I know all this stuff has been said before, and will be said again, but here's my three cents (inflation, you know) on this issue. If you are closeted, and do not do anything, in any way, shape, or form to hurt or "shut-down" the "Gay Agenda" (for lack of a better all-encompassing term), then, in my book you are perfectly allowed to remain in the closet.

If you are out, then, for God's sake be out! Don't sissy-foot around being faboo at night and silent by day. It just adds fuel to the fire that being Gay is something of which to be ashamed.

If you're Straight, I mean actually Straight not just "straight-acting" or whatever, then be Straight, and that's great too. Especially if you dress to show off. We won't touch, but we might just sneak-a-peek.

However, if you are Gay, and attempting to make yourself feel better by publicly screwing the rest of the "Gay Family" over, then you lose your right to keep it quiet, and someone's gonna barrel-roll your ass outta the closet, and be celebrated for it. No one gets to put a group down, especially if they're part of the group, without first identifying themselves as part of the group.

If you don't want to be Gay, that's tough, it's the way you were made. Deal with it the best you can, and seek help. That's why we're a community.

If you try to make us out the bad guys cause you're uncomfortable, watch how uncomfortable you get when we get you. Thus endeth the rant.

It was a very good rant -- worth quoting in full in hopes it will be read once more.

 

[iman]

Why don't you stop telling people how to live?

It's what humans do, we make choices. Dogs and cats don't get to do that.

 

[Kulindahr]

Why don't you stop telling people how to live?

It's what humans do, we make choices. Dogs and cats don't get to do that.

You almost become honest....

you see yourself as the human, and everyone else as your cats and dogs.

 

[Kulindahr]

Whoa!

Libertarian minds think alike?

















Well, at least they THINK.

 

[iman]

So you choose to make people into dogs and cats? Because that's what you are doing---you making the choice to be a tyrant and tell how others are to live.

We are all tyrants, we all tell others how to live. There is a constant interaction of exchanging bits of freedom with others.

Rand never understood that, she probably never had good sex.

 

[Kulindahr]

I tell others how to live.

I say, "Own yourself, and respect the ownership others have of themselves. Live with dignity. Stand up for freedom. Exercise all your rights, as often as possible."