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Okay all you anti-Barackians....

CoolBlue71

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I have two choices:

1) Vote for Barack Obama as the next president of the United States.

2) Vote straight ticket for the Democratic Party.

Tough choice!
 
I have two choices:

1) Vote for Barack Obama as the next president of the United States.

2) Vote straight ticket for the Democratic Party.

Tough choice!

Another option:
Vote Green! Cynthia McKinney ( a black woman) for Prez and Rosa Clemente( a latino woman) for VP-- now that would be a real change!
 
1. Are you voting at all?
Yes I have never missed an election in my life
2. Are you voting for Mccain?
Yes I Am
3. Why are you voting for Mccain? Anti-Barack answers are welcome but pro-Mccain answers are sorely desired.
A. While not my pick I trust JM more. B. He has so much more experience in Life & Politics. C. I trust him as CiC he knows war and it's evils. D.Conservative tax views. E. Economy more sound F. Is not afraid to change his views
4. Why is there so much anti-Barackism yet barely a smidgen of pro-Mccainism. If people are this against vocal against Barack, you'd think there'd be more Mccain support floating around.
JM is just hard to be really proud of. I Have no passion for him Ya know just lack that gut feeling. I speak Pro McCain , but manly Pro GOP.He is not a great Pug,,, middle of the road guy.

5. If you're not voting, why do you critice Obama?

6. Is anybody gonna vote for Nader?

Pro-Barackians, let's ease off the ridicule for a moment and give anti-Barackians a chance to explain IF they're voting and, if so why they're voting for Mccain (assuming that every anti-Barackian is, in fact, going to vote).[/quote]
 
Marley..
In a nut shell that is my brief views. I wanted to save space for other posters , whom I hope will come here
 
Another option:
Vote Green! Cynthia McKinney ( a black woman) for Prez and Rosa Clemente( a latino woman) for VP-- now that would be a real change!

You have not had Cynthia McKinney as your representative. She and her anti-semitic father are indeed a pair. She fled to CA because she knew we were done with her in Georgia. I think personally she is just a notch above the wicked witch of the west. When she smacked one of the guards at the Capitol, that did it for her. She would run with the Nazi Party if they were the only ones who would have her.

I am beginning to froth at the mouth. For Christ's sake, do a little homework and background reading! Her father, who often speaks for and with her, is also anti-gay, no matter what she says to get her puss back in the media. I think she probably should be institutionalized, and when I saw she was part of the Green Party ticket, that did it for me and for any good the Green Party may do--as little as that probably is.
 
This thread is now designated On-Topic.”​
 
Be honest, PLEASE answer these questions honestly...

1. Are you voting at all?
YEP. I also never miss a vote. Its our right given to us by our veterans.

2. Are you voting for Mccain?
Yep.

3. Why are you voting for Mccain? Anti-Barack answers are welcome but pro-Mccain answers are sorely desired.
Well. I want gas prices to go down. I don't want my taxes to go up. I don't want to be attacked again on our soil.

4. Why is there so much anti-Barackism yet barely a smidgen of pro-Mccainism. Many gay men are afraid to voice their opinions for a conservative. Even though Mccain is far from a conservative. They are afraid because many gay men are ignorant of the facts and attack those who are different than them.

5. If you're not voting, why do you critice Obama?

6. Is anybody gonna vote for Nader?
 
Be honest, PLEASE answer these questions honestly...

1. Are you voting at all?

YEP - wouldn't miss it for the world - nothing like going into a booth and pulling the curtain shut ;)

2. Are you voting for Mccain?

MOST DEFINITELY

3. Why are you voting for Mccain? Anti-Barack answers are welcome but pro-Mccain answers are sorely desired.

JOHN MCCAIN HAS A PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF MAKING GOOD DECISIONS, BEING A MAN OF HIS WORD, WORKING WITH OTHERS TO PROVIDE COMMON GROUND, HAS IMMENSE COURAGE, WOULD BE A TERRIFIC LEADER OF OUR COUNTRY IN THESE DIFFICULT TIMES, WOULD NOT KNEE JERK RAISE TAXES AND I LOVE THAT HE HAS BATTLED WITH HIS OWN PARTY OVER THE YEARS PLUS OTHER STUFF - I TRUST HIM AND TRUST HE HAS THE WISDOM, THE KNOWLEDGE AND HEART TO BE A GOOD PRESIDENT

4. Why is there so much anti-Barackism yet barely a smidgen of pro-Mccainism. If people are this against vocal against Barack, you'd think there'd be more Mccain support floating around.

UR NOT GONNA HAVE MCCAIN SUPPORT ON JUB - GAY GUYS REFLEX DEM AND ARE EXTREMELY LIBERAL - I THINK IF HILLARY WERE ON THE DEM TICKET, PERHAPS MORE GAYS WOULD GO MCCAIN (SLIGHTLY)

THE ANTI BARACKISM IS SIMPLY A BACKLASH AGAINST THE FAWNING, THE COMPLETE AND BLIND ALLEGIANCE TO A GUY NO ONE REALLY KNOWS

5. If you're not voting, why do you critice Obama?

6. Is anybody gonna vote for Nader?

Pro-Barackians, let's ease off the ridicule for a moment and give anti-Barackians a chance to explain IF they're voting and, if so why they're voting for Mccain (assuming that every anti-Barackian is, in fact, going to vote).


HOPE THAT HELPS

GOOD IDEA FOR A THREAD MARLEY :D
 
As an independent,
I am voting Democratic.
While I am neither pro Obama or pro McCain, I will not vote to continue Republican rule over this country.
The last 7 years have been a disgrace.
However,
I am not impressed with Obama.
Without a prepared speech the man can not talk.
He has endorsed the warrantless wire taps and protection to phone companies.
Obama will continue Bushes religous programs
He reversed himself on NAFTA.
Obama is just another politician, raised in Chicago politics and has learned well.
The pedestal he was placed on is too high for anyone, and he is going to disapoint a lot of his base when he becomes president.
Obama may well do to the democratic party, What Bush has done for Republicans.
Nader may well be the president in the next election.
Sorry for the rant, But when your between a rock and a hard place , you get hurt no matter what.
 
4. Why is there so much anti-Barackism yet barely a smidgen of pro-Mccainism. If people are this against vocal against Barack, you'd think there'd be more Mccain support floating around.

UR NOT GONNA HAVE MCCAIN SUPPORT ON JUB - GAY GUYS REFLEX DEM AND ARE EXTREMELY LIBERAL - I THINK IF HILLARY WERE ON THE DEM TICKET, PERHAPS MORE GAYS WOULD GO MCCAIN (SLIGHTLY)

THE ANTI BARACKISM IS SIMPLY A BACKLASH AGAINST THE FAWNING, THE COMPLETE AND BLIND ALLEGIANCE TO A GUY NO ONE REALLY KNOWS

Chance........
Thanks 100% correct. I thought the same but didn't say it.
 
Be honest, PLEASE answer these questions honestly...

1. Are you voting at all?

I haven't decided yet. If you vote, you are giving the election results legitimacy, and thus lose the right to complain later. However, I've also felt for at least 2 years that this will likely be an extremely important election.

2. Are you voting for Mccain?

I'm not sure.

3. Why are you voting for Mccain? Anti-Barack answers are welcome but pro-Mccain answers are sorely desired.

IF I was to vote for McCain... (Pro-McCain)
P1) On some level, I trust him. In his early life, he showed courage and conviction during the war.
P2) He has a history of working with people and holding to some convictions (though usually the things he's wrong about...)
P3) For better or for worse, you know what you're getting. No surprises there.

(Anti-Obama)
A1) Obama is an unknown, you really just don't know for sure what he'd do in the White House.
A2) Obama's economic and military policies are horrendous. McCain's aren't GOOD, but Obama's are simply very very bad.
A3) Obama currently strikes me as all flash but no substance.
A4) Obama isn't really a uniter, and race is a large issue wherever Obama is concerned. McCain doesn't seem to generate divisiveness wherever he goes (again, for better or for worse.)

(Anti-McCan, or, reasons that I don't know if I'll vote for him)
1-) While the man is honorable, his better days have probably passed.
2-) He seems to have difficulty in holding to positions (as opposed to Obama who has none.)
3-) He seems to have difficulty making decisions/taking stances on things on the spot if asked (but so does Obama.)
4-) And given how much the Presidency ages someone, Obama has more years he can afford to lose; McCain my die while in office.
5-) McCain already seems to be having difficulty remembering things; can we afford to have a person who suffers from such memory lapses (not just occasional missteps, but genuine Alzheimer's-lite) making all the big calls?


4. Why is there so much anti-Barackism yet barely a smidgen of pro-Mccainism. If people are this against vocal against Barack, you'd think there'd be more Mccain support floating around.

McCain isn't that exciting. I honestly don't know how he won the primary other than that Romney was a Morman, Giulani put all his eggs in one basket (Florida) and lost it, and Huckabee was just too "southern nice guy" to win.

McCain is energetic for his age, I guess, but he is still up there in years. He's seen as out of touch with people and with the modern age (whereas Obama's just out of touch with all non-elitists.)

A lot of support for McCain is anti-Obama/anti-Clinton, anti-Democrat, and anti-Liberal. A lot of it is people that think Obama is too inexperienced, too unknown, and/or his policies being less than good. (Given, he's still not as polarizing as Clinton.) So voters for McCain tend to be less excited because that they're not voting FOR him so much as AGAINST Obama. It's a grudging "lesser of two evils" vote, which is never anything exciting (and is, sadly, the way it's been for at least a decade.)


5. If you're not voting, why do you critice Obama?

(Since this MAY apply to me, not sure yet: )

It's because of how dangerous he can be. That he's unknown and that his policies are dangerous doesn't seem to bother many people who are, instead, awed by his words and grandeous idealism. I'm an idealist, but I have enough of a realist in me that I take care to watch idealists carefully. I don't think he's corrupt like most Democrats and Liberals are, but he still pushes that same agenda. Further, he isn't the best candidate at this time, and, while I'd like to believe he's different than all the rest and a refreshing change, he seems instead to, more and more, show himself as just one more politician. And if I was going to promote one politician over another, I should promote the one that at least we can be sure about, right? Better to trust the evil you know then the one that you do not.


6. Is anybody gonna vote for Nader?

How many millions of people are in this country? Someone, SOMEWHERE, is going to vote for Nader. But most people that would vote for him are tired of Bush and would be enamored with Obama, so most of the potential Nader votes will go to Obama this time around.

Pro-Barackians, let's ease off the ridicule for a moment and give anti-Barackians a chance to explain IF they're voting and, if so why they're voting for Mccain (assuming that every anti-Barackian is, in fact, going to vote).


Those are my answers, sorry it's so long. I just see this election as very difficult, the candidates disappointing (I know to die hard Libs, Obama's a God-send, and I'm happy for them to have someone they can believe in and be proud of, I'm just always vigilant against letting myself get distracted by glitter and flash), and yet at the same time, this is the most important election in my life thus far. Just a feeling I get, an echo from a shadow in the back of my mind. Needless to say, difficult is hardly a strong enough word to describe this election...
 
1. Are you voting at all?

I always vote, so I absolutely must. I am on the record since January at JUB as the resident undecided independent:help:.

2. Are you voting for Mccain?

If he were still McCain 2000, most definitely....but, he veered far to the right and much closer to Bush's views over the last 8 years (with merely a couple of exceptions). Sadly, he is so diminished in my view, and, for years, he was my all-time favorite Republican....one of the big disappointments for me. And I've tried to keep an open mind, but in this campaign, he has offered up nothing.

At this juncture, I've had to grind my teeth and finally moved from my once adamant stance that I could never vote for Obama to saying that I am leaning toward him. I do like his little move to the center. And the more I've looked at this past, I'm less convinced that he's a liberal. He seems to have surrounded himself for years with very moderate economic and foreign affairs advisors. The fact that conservative Sen Nunn of GA has privately been advising him since he was in the Senate, and now has Nunn's rare endorsement, have opened my eyes and prompted me to look harder at Obama. Nunn has HUGE credibilty with me (in other words, I hold Nunn in the same regards, for example, that Chance hold McCain). Obama does surround himself with good people...something Jimmy Carter, whom the Repubs keep comparing him to, did not do.

Still, Obama is indeed slow verbally on his feet and is an awful speaker and debater when he's not behind a podium reading the teleprompters. That concerns me. I don't think he's a visionary type person (like the first Bush), which concerns me a little; although, that is not a requirment to getting things done...and visionary leaders sometimes lack pragmatism. The Wright epsiode and his whole church issue bothers me immensely, but I won't rehash that here. Issue wise? I wish he would wade carefully into his healthcare plan...we need less government interference; and he needs to get this country drilling for oil while still looking for fuel alternatives long-term.

Still, I would have been happier, although not thrilled, with Hillary. At the same time, given the fall of McCain as that enticing Maverick and the flat tires on his Straight Talk Express, I've been in a quandry and find Obama looking better in the face of the current options.

I think I'm like many Americans in that we find it hard to digest or justify voting GOP, so this race is really about whether Obama can close the deal, and bring us doubters into the fold. I even think the McCain folks are now running the race not on the national issues but rather on Obama himself.


4. Why is there so much anti-Barackism yet barely a smidgen of pro-Mccainism. If people are this against vocal against Barack, you'd think there'd be more Mccain support floating around.

There's so much anti-Barack here because gay people love drama and they can stir it up with Obama-bashing. Since there are only a handful of McCain supporters here, bashing McCain is like preaching to the choir. And let's face it, people are comfortable with McCain (like him or not), he's like that old pair of sneakers in the closet. Folks are still trying Obama on for size and comfort....I know I am. For some of us, Obama is a tough sell.

6. Is anybody gonna vote for Nader?
Nader is just plain wacko and this late juncture in his career. And McKinney, just go back and read what cynicus said in post #8, he is dead on right!!! Us folks who live in the state that she had to flee....well, we just know about McKinney.
 
There's so much anti-Barack here because gay people love drama and they can stir it up with Obama-bashing.

excellent point about gay people and drama - kind of a stereotype but prolly apt

however

there is NOT a lot of THE CHOSEN ONE bashing on JUB

that is a figment of the JUB 85 DRAMA QUEENS CLUB - that could be a book or better yet, a movie :rolleyes:

check the threads - do the math

it's really a layup

the idea of BO bashing on JUB is a joke
 
Let me just get my opinion off and I'll be out of your way.

A good military record is by no means a good reference to being the leader of a country, just as it is no reason to trust someone to stay "cool under political fire", as politics can be twice as deadly as war at times.

There has been PLENTY of Obama-bashing, but mostly from justmeeeeee and holland, and some from you chance. In comparison, the amount of anti-Clinton and anti-McCain(most of which are comedic in nature) threads have been minuscule.

In my opinion, Obama may not be the best public speaker, but the message that he supports is that there can and will be change(from what I can tell). McCain is no longer the man he once was, and he can't seem to get his story straight. He could have been a good leader, but now that he has nearly completely adopted the Bush rhetoric, he is just a Head of State, not a Head of Government.

And seriously marley, ICO7, that is "holding off on the ridicule"??? And Chance, your idea of the Anti-Obama threads being people fighting against blind devotion.... isn't that what you have for McCain, blind devotion that he won't fuck up as bad, or worse, then Bush? And if you spout anything that sounds like repug propaganda, I'm gonna find you in the world, and smack some sense into you boy!
 
Sorry, I guess I tied you in with marley on that one, my bad.

Didn't think chance is that old, considering some of the naive crap I've heard out of his mouth.
 
Im sorry but i think that most people voting against Obama is secretly because he's black.. and nothing will change that fact. Many use excuses and say its because he's young and inexperienced. He's trying to end the war! Thank god. It's drained this economy.. stupid nazi bush and the republicans need to give it a rest.
 
There has been PLENTY of Obama-bashing, but mostly from justmeeeeee and holland, and some from you chance. In comparison, the amount of anti-Clinton and anti-McCain(most of which are comedic in nature) threads have been minuscule.

i have never BASHED Obama

i don't think he is the devil - and i don't attack him personally

i make fun of him - i comment on his flip flops - i comment on his lack of substance

all legitimate opinions

the obama lovers thing ANYTHING against the man is a smear

i don't think ur reading here much

mccain is bashed regularly as elderly, not in full control of his senses, his war record is attacked ..............

just check the ce+p list of threads/titles - don't have to be a brain surgeon to see

easily 85% of this board is pro obama

just like 85% of the media is in the tank for obama

so please - do not complain about obama bashing

it's a joke

i think obama is wrong for this time and frankly has done NOTHING to warrant consideration much less be the man in the white house

it's a comedy really

except the stakes r high - the stake r our lives and our economic well being
 
Ico: My response wasn't off-topic, it was an explanation of my view. I was (as a member of the target group) asked if I was going to vote or not. I answered (I'm not sure yet) with a brief explanation of my answer; if given two bad candidates, voting only allows the parties to continuously give you bad candidates since they know you'll vote for one of them anyway. Additionally, whenever you participate in the system, you agree to be bound by the results. The only way that anyone can say "This is not MY President" (something some people have said about Bush) is if they refused to take part in the system that brought him to power.

By participating, THAT is when you have, as you put it, "tacitly given support to the election results," not by saying "I don't care", but rather by saying "I vote no confidence in the choices presented."

You mistake my reasoning for not voting (if, in fact, I do decide not to vote.) It isn't me saying I don't care, rather it's me saying I care so much that I cannot follow the line like a good little sheep and support either candidate since they're both so very destructive to the nation I love. The next step from here is be actually trying to take part by getting someone else elected; something that is, currently, not within my power.


Just stop and think for a moment which would send the greater message to the Republicans and Democrats that they need to field GOOD candidates:

Thousands of people voting and complaining about it later.
OR
Not one person in these United States going to the booth in November and both candidates getting 0 votes.


The latter isn't going to happen, but out of those two, WHICH would have the greater impact? Which would be reported in the news the next day? Which would actually FORCE both parties to bring out different, possibly good, candidates?

I would wager to say the latter. Do you honestly think the former would have that same impact?


By taking part, you legitimize the results. While I guess you can complain about it later, you are equally responsible in the results. (You're right, you never surrender the right of free speech, whether or not you vote, however you sacrifice, in principle, the high ground of disputing the results if you take part in the system that produces them.) However, refusing to take part allows you to (in principle if not reality) reject the results. The next step from there is working to present a candidate (in the future) that is not one of the two main parties and that people can see is a good leader. Of course, that takes far more money than I currently possess...



...now then, THIS response was probably off topic. ^_^



Cher, Gaafna; Fill out the question/list! :) It's not fair to the opposition to just list your opinion without doing so! :p

Besides, I was thinking Marley wanted to hear from McCain people on what they thought, not from Obama people on what they thought McCain people thought...

(And for reference, I haven't talked to anyone that doesn't want to vote for Obama because he's black. If anything, a lot of people, even Republicans, want to vote for him BECAUSE he's black and people think for some odd, misguided reason, that electing a black person to become President would end racism...

So, if anything, racism in this nation is more likely to help Obama than hurt him. Or, rather, the "white man's sin", and the modern day wish to repent from it.

Far more people want to vote against Obama because of his inexperience, his "all flash but no substance" message, how he says he's a new type of politician while he seems to be just like all the others, and how his liberal policies are iffy or dangerous to a lot of people who think conservative ones are better.)

[To clarify that last part of the above: This Bush administration has NOT been Conservative in any way. It's essentially been rather Liberal in a lot of respects (growth of government, increase in government spending, government involvement in the marketplace {which, while Keynsian, is VERY Liberal <Keyns was himsel...>})]
 
1. Are you voting at all?

Absolutely.

2. Are you voting for Mccain?

Only if someone shows up with a check for $5 billion and a guarantee he and his running mate, and Pelosi while we're at it, will die within a month after he takes office.

4. Why is there so much anti-Barackism yet barely a smidgen of pro-Mccainism. If people are this against vocal against Barack, you'd think there'd be more Mccain support floating around.

What reason is there for to be for McCain -- other than that he's not Obama?

5. If you're not voting, why do you critice Obama?

Because he's a politician.

6. Is anybody gonna vote for Nader?

:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
 
It's ridiculous to think they are equally destructive.

...is it? McCain will destroy this nation economically and militarily. Our economy because of inaction, our military by over-extension and possibly even war with Iran. Obama will destroy this nation economically and militarily. Our economy with repressive taxes that will destroy the economy, as well as resistance to anything but a very narrow branch of energy independence, and militarily by calling Iraq a lost war, pulling out of it, and allow the world to become quickly a far more dangerous place in the aftermath.

They are equally destructive, the only difference is the method of destructive. It's like getting to choose the method of your death to be the electric chair or firing squad. They will both kill you, it's only the time, tension, and method that will be different. Obama and McCain ARE equally destructive. Which means your next point...

At that point, you choose the lesser of the two evils.

...in addition to being sad (though probably realist), is a non-issue. You're asking me to choose the next destroyer of the world, vote Hitler or vote Napoleon, destruction by planet killing asteroid or by nuclear winter. What kind of option is that? Further, who am I to decide such a thing??


There is no 'vote of no confidence'---NONE. Work to get that added to the ballot, I think a lot of Americans would appreciate it and it would send a clear signal to the two ruling parties; I'm for it. However, not voting is tacit support to the election results---you're willing to sit back and let others dictate who will lead the country. If that's the case, you should sit back and say nothing as the country prospers or flounders or falls apart.

Okay, I have no money, but I can speak moderately well and type up very good (at least, so I've been told) and persuasive arguments, and I tend to be bound by what I consider good and just. So...I have no idea how to start such a movement or how to get it passed, but I'll do whatever I can to help with it. Have you any idea how we could see about getting this done, or anyone you know we could talk to? I'll seriously give it everything I've got, I just need a little help getting into a group that has the power to do it (since I, myself, alone, do not.)

As for your argument; it's incorrect. You suppose that by "sitting back" I'm "letting" it happen. My counter to that is that by "participating" you are "legitimizing" it.

In the end, we're saying nearly the same thing, but from opposite perspectives; yours from the realist, my from the idealist. The middle ground between us is what you would propose - a vote of no confidence. What you fail to realize is that there IS such a vote on our ballots...in a way. NOT voting. What's the percentage of Americans that don't vote? 40%? 60%? 80%...? There are lazy people among them, but there are also a LOT of disenchanted people, a lot of people who have lost hope, and a lot of people that refuse to pick the "lesser of two evils."

We SHOULD be able to pick the better of two goods. In fact, that is the idea of voting; to pick the best man/woman for the job! No where in the Constitution does it say we are to pick the lesser evil, rather, the Founders hoped that the best possible person would be the one always picked. To "settle" for the lesser of two evils is to abandon what things this nation was founded on. It's more akin to supporting the nobility and aristocracy, to see who they present to us and, like good little sheep, to vote for the one that is the most palatable.

How can you call that a choice?!


No, no one cares how few voters there are---Dubya still claimed a mandate and he had no where close to enough people to obtain such 'political capital'.

No one cares how few voters there are...as long as people are still voting. I didn't say "what if only 50,000 people voted", I said what if NO ONE voted. If neither Obama nor McCain got a single vote.

That WOULD say something (for one thing, Congress would have to elect the President since, if both candidates get 0 popular vote, then neither gets a majority in any state, and thus neither would get any Electoral College votes, and thus neither would win the election. It would be a draw.) That would say that we are no longer going to take part in this farce of "choice", that we demand the parties give us GOOD candidates. Further, it would also mean that WHICHEVER candidate Congress then picked for our President would have NO political mandate, since they had no one vote for them.

...it would lead to tremendous turmoil and this nation being stymied from doing anything for 4 years. However...it would also signal to the two parties that the American people won't take their crap anymore, and that if they don't give us something we want in 4 years, we may just do it ourselves, making our own party, fielding our own candidate, and then having a President we can be proud of.

It's the idealistic anarchist in me that's saying all this, but the truth is, it's really the only thing that hasn't been tried. The current two party system is both too strong and too polarizing, and it's going to start causing America some real problems.

...actually, you've seen the last 7 years. It already has.


I think you greatly failed to comprehend what I wrote. NOT voting doesn't fail to legitimize the election results; you still give approval to it through inaction UNTIL 'vote of no confidence' is added to the ballot.

And by voting, you give it even more legitimacy since you are taking part in the system. The difference is, if you vote, you're a sheep. If you refuse...then you're something else. If you're lazy, that's one thing, but if you refuse to vote on principle, that's something entirely different.



...but don't get me wrong, I still haven't said I won't vote. I'm just saying I'm both unsure of if I will and of which "lesser evil" I would vote for. Right now, McCain is the lesser evil to me, but by such a minuscule margin that they're both really equal. Until something happens that can show one of them as "not as evil" in my mind, then how am I supposed to vote?

You said you pick the lesser of the two evils. If they both really ARE equal evils to me,then tell me, Ico...please...

...which one should I vote for?


To be damned if I do or damned if I don't, which is better? Doing and being damned, or refusing and being damned? If I'm damned either way, I'd rather be suborn, if for no other reason to to tell myself I was.


I'm with JohanLarson above. But I don't drink, so...(then again, I'd rather stand by my own courage anyway...)
 
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